A conversation with a Buckeye fan at The Game
I put off posting this for a bit because I didn't want it to seem like an emotional reaction. There were a few Buckeye fans sitting a row in front of me. Before kickoff I was of course amped up and probably feeling the effects of a few pre-game beverages. I started making some lighthearted (obnoxious) remarks to them about bagmen, Cash Young, etc.. They sort of laughed at first but then things transitioned to a more serious conversation about the topic. I'll paraphrase but one of the guys said, "Look, I don't necessarily like it but it's how the game is played these days if you want to win". I don't live in Ohio or Michigan so I don't regularly have these conversations with people but this was the first time I heard someone simply say "yeah, we do this. The ends justify the means". While I might not respect the thinking I certainly appreciated his honesty. We were both very respectful with one another and he actually seemed like a knowledgeable person. When Dobbins scored a touchdown he looked at me and said, "cha-ching!" which I gave a wry smile to.
I apologize if the title isn't to your liking but I'm curious if others have experienced conversations like this as well? I only seem to read on various message boards the "deny, deny, deny" culture. Here was someone who openly admitted, without direct knowledge of course, that he believes the team he roots for cuts significant corners in order to lure top talent. I appreciate your responses.
December 5th, 2019 at 1:49 PM ^
Urban and staff coach U of M athletes for four seasons, Harbaugh and staff coach OSU athletes for four seasons. Urban wins.
Day and staff coach U of M athletes for four seasons, Harbaugh and staff coach OSU athletes for four seasons. I'd go with 50/50.
Day and staff coach U of M athletes , Harbaugh and staff coach OSU athletes. Harbaugh wins.
I think the more time Harbaugh had with the OSU players, the more likely to lose.
December 5th, 2019 at 10:02 AM ^
Buckeye fans can hold conversations?
December 5th, 2019 at 10:02 AM ^
Buckeye fans can hold conversations?
December 5th, 2019 at 10:04 AM ^
As everyone talks about dirty recruiting and bagman... how many teams do you think do this to get recruits and do you think it is just top 50 players? Top 100? Where do you think the line is?
December 5th, 2019 at 10:11 AM ^
The corners are stupid and deserve to be cut. This kick Brian and Seth are on now about how Michigan's "culture" gives it administrative roadblocks to being as good as OSU has some truth to it. They are leaving out one very important item: Michigan are complete suckers for upholding NCAA rules as something virtuous. The NCAA isn't virtuous. The NCAA is greedy and evil.
December 5th, 2019 at 11:22 AM ^
The whole Bill Martin thing has left a lasting impact on the M admin, there seems to be a certain institutional PTSD over cutting recruiting corners.
What seems to have some impact is having a charismatic, well-respected HC, like we have with Howard. If M had bagmen, it's very possible Howard would have already signed the new Fab 5. Harbaugh certainly doesn't have that kind of charisma, so the corners will be followed because that's what the institution wants and we get what we get.
December 5th, 2019 at 11:24 AM ^
Amen to that.
December 5th, 2019 at 10:12 AM ^
Ohio State has asymmetrical advantages we need to overcome. While theoretically possible, trying to overcome these advantages through “conventional” means, (i.e. hiring ‘super recruiters’, out-scheming them on Xs & Os, getting somehow more “fired up” on gameday, simply relying on some luck, or a possibly natural return to Earth from Ryan Day & Co. on the recruiting trail, etc.), will likely prove more or less impossible. Maybe we can steal one game in ten.
Instead, with the football program being an enormous cash cow and showpiece for the school, I propose a Michigan Manhattan Project. Utilize Leaders and Best from all parts of the school to comprehensively attack Ohio State on multiple fronts simultaneously.
Use our sterling legal minds to go after their rumored malfeasance. Use our Ross business talent and marketing types to develop a plan to aggressively counter OSU through public relations campaigns, (think: those preachy “truth” ads going after Big Tobacco). Use our CS wizards to conduct shadowy campaigns to dig up their dirt. Harass, agitate, stymie them at every turn.
Would everything I suggest above be legal? Probably not. But let’s look at the bigger picture: we’re losing a fuck ton of football games to these goobers. Time to get our priorities straight. ?
Columbus delenda est!
December 5th, 2019 at 10:17 AM ^
The "good coaching" thing has its limits.
Maximizing talent at all roster positions, and with depth, does not make for the most challenging coaching job, does it?
December 5th, 2019 at 10:24 AM ^
After Michigan loses 10 in a row to OSU maybe John U. Bacon can write a book about it. Hopefully he covers this topic.
December 5th, 2019 at 10:30 AM ^
As Steve Deace said on his Podcast. If they cheat show the proof.
December 5th, 2019 at 10:36 AM ^
r/thathappened
December 5th, 2019 at 10:36 AM ^
If we accept this logic then Michigan certainly has cheated too as we definitely had some recruiting wins that were for highly prized recruits also pursued by teams with little restraint on this front.
The thing to remember though is that this isnt a free bidding situation where companies submit their bids through a process with fixed rules. This is plain old racketeering and thus a game where ‘angles’ and ‘ins’ are everything. As a result what you need is recruiters who have access and connections to people who can hook you up. Its more Breaking Bad than corporate America. I think with Michigan there might be definitely some administrative reluctance to put it mildly to play the role of Madrigal here. Probably more so than with most other big football schools. And that definitely doesn’t make it any easier.
December 5th, 2019 at 10:37 AM ^
I see one of two end games for Coach Harbaugh:
One: He pulls a Beilein, gets sick of the uneven playing field, quits the NCAA and jumps back to the NFL.
Two: He collects enough data and information to orchestrate a media campaign/attack and bypass the NCAA. He can go right to the court of public opinion and go scorched earth on the NCAA. There are enough well-placed Michigan alumni who are influential to help something like that get legs and start running.
Harbaugh has the type of personality and character to not let injustice go, so I could see him taking the second approach and blowing up the whole thing. That would be in line with his comments about educational standards while at Stanford.
December 5th, 2019 at 11:09 AM ^
The first is probably FAR more likely than the second.
I have no doubt Harbaugh and the coaching staff hear all kinds of things about recruits getting paid, but saying it and proving it are completely different things. A HS coach or player may say something privately that they will deny publicly. No one wants to be a snitch. The Miss St. player who did is rare, because they all know there's ramifications for them as well.
Harbaugh would make himself persona non grata to his coaching peers and players going scorched earth. That is an end game strategy when all else fails, which not only would have ramifications for Harbaugh but the university as well. I don't expect Warde would be on board for such a thing.
December 5th, 2019 at 10:47 AM ^
December 5th, 2019 at 11:18 AM ^
Wow. Surprised some are so lackadaisical about cheating. The ends justify the means. Any historical allegories come to mind?
December 5th, 2019 at 11:18 AM ^
Such a sad statement.
December 5th, 2019 at 11:23 AM ^
A simple place to start would be to not dissuade a kid like Da'Shawn Hand from engineering when you are recruiting him. He ended up getting a sports marketing degree from Bama, and Michigan was trying to steer him in that direction while recruiting him and lost out to Bama who said yeah if you want to pursue engineering go ahead.
That kind of stuff is self inflicted on Michigan's part and isn't even cheating on Bama's part.
Kid says I want to major in A, we say no too hard you should major in B and Bama says OK. Can we be surprised when he doesn't pick us. Even if we are correct and he ultimately ends up majoring in A at Bama.
Stuff like this is why we don't recruit well. (to be fair this was a Hoke recruitment not a Harbaugh recruitment, but I think it illustrates the cultural differences).
December 5th, 2019 at 10:49 AM ^
Michigan is adhering to the old set of books.
Ohio State, the entire SEC and even MSU are following an entirely new set of books.
Money, cars, tats, loans, forgiven loans, PEDs, exceptional treatment and reinstatements in spite of criminal activities and charges, sexually generous recruiting hostesses. All of the above.
Michigan made its decision about all of this a long time ago.
Yet here we are, and UM fans are the ones complaining about the variance in outcomes and the lack of just desserts.
I think by now we all know what happens to the Denny Stolz's, Woody Hayes's, Emory Bellards, Ron Meyers, Barry Switzers, Jimmy Johnsons, Bobby Bowdens, Jim Tressels, and Hugh Freezes of the world.
These coaches, individuals, the booster clubs (BuckeyeClub), their connections and facilitators, who have been on the take and making the take - will not remain silent forever. Eventually someone gets jilted and pissed off, and the sewage leaks out everywhere. It's a real mess when it does.
December 5th, 2019 at 11:31 AM ^
There is nothing new about any of this, cheating in college sports via illicit benefits and academic fraud was considered an old hat 40 years ago. In the real old days before all the rules were formalized schools would sign up ringer professionals just for a few games.
The moment college sports became a way for people to say “my town/state is better than yours” all bets were off.
Michigans whole issue on this front is that weve always considered Michigan better than other schools in a sense of virtue. Especially OSU and MSU. Michigan wanted to be the Harvard of the West, not just another provincial school trying to make its town and state proud. That made Michigan the ultimate virtue signalers of college sports with a bit of hypocrisy mixed in for good measure.
December 5th, 2019 at 10:51 AM ^
If we are going over this again, I will again say, why do we out recruit Maryland or Rutgers? We must be cheating, right? No, our football program is just better so the better players want to be a part of it, yet if someone has a better program than ours, the same rule doesn’t apply. It just means they cheat. We are not on the same level as OSU, and Maryland is not on the same level as us. It’s just how it works.
I doubt academics has anything to do with it either as many players say, including our coach, that they weren’t allowed to major in what they wanted to due to the rigors of football.
Beat osu, win the Big 10 and recruiting will get better. Guaranteed.
December 5th, 2019 at 11:05 AM ^
Pardon me if I don't believe that they did this right in front of you, "Gulf Coast Buckeye Girl."
December 5th, 2019 at 11:15 AM ^
I have nothing to prove. Everyone there was in UM gear. Their game came on next. I wasn’t sporting my OSU gear, so I’m sure they felt it was a “safe” environment. I didn’t mention it to cause a debate. Just sharing a first hand experience. I’ll leave it at that, no worries. ...here is to hoping the rivalry gets back to being exciting ✌?
December 5th, 2019 at 11:27 AM ^
Not a troll not a girl not a shred of truth.
December 5th, 2019 at 10:57 AM ^
Just remember they do not go to OSU to play skool.
December 5th, 2019 at 11:32 AM ^
My fear is what happens when the student athletes get classified as employees?
Will we still be able to make the excuse about classes, and academic rigor, etc anymore?
December 5th, 2019 at 11:01 AM ^
God. Please stop with the cheating excuses. People betray each other all the time. If kids were regularly getting paid, then these kids would occassionally betray their schools and we would hear more about it.
There may be "booster bag men" operating without the school's knowledge, but I really doubt that OSU has a covert but program-sanctioned cheating system in place.
How about this? They are better at recruiting. They have a great scheme. Great coaches. Great facilities. Their guys spend a lot of time in the weight room. They don't let their kids play golf or Fortnight all summer. Coaches who under perform are shown the door.
Michigan is a very good football team. But OSU is enjoying some of their best teams EVER right now.
December 5th, 2019 at 11:19 AM ^
Re; "There may be "booster bag men" operating without the school's knowledge, but I really doubt that OSU has a covert but program-sanctioned cheating system in place."
Pretty sure that is what Louisville basketball fans used to tell themselves too.
Here is the Wikipedia description of what the FBI uncovered at Louisville: "The documents also alluded to two Louisville coaches, identified only as "Coach-1" and "Coach-2", and a recruit who signed with Louisville identified as "Player-10".[24] The documents allege that the coaches were involved in a scheme by which a "Company-1", later identified as Adidas, would funnel $100,000 to the family of "Player-10" in exchange for him coming to Louisville."
December 5th, 2019 at 11:29 AM ^
Totally agree that it happens. I am just saying that it happens a lot less than you think.
One of the reasons that conspiracy theories often don't pan out is that people cannot keep secrets. You do this stuff regularly and you will get caught. Trying to keep a secret among 10 people for 20 years is almost impossible.
Players will tell other players who tell their parents. Then a player gets mad at a coach and enters the transfer portal and throws a bomb on the way out. If there really was systemic cheating, that would happen all the time.
Say that OSU tries to bribe a player who then signs with Michigan. If the player mentions this to coach H, does coach H bury it?
December 5th, 2019 at 11:08 AM ^
Easy OSU recruiting recap that we talk about over and over again (and these are all known):
1. They have easier academic standards so larger pool of people to recruit (obvious)
2. They have option of not going to class and aren't there "to play school" (also see Fields online course comments)
3. They have MUCH more drafted players (look it up or read previous comments)
4. They pay players (proven over and over again because they have gotten in trouble for it)
5. They are willing to hide bad stuff to win (Urban Meyer and scandals)
6. They are willing to cross the line and win at all costs (drug sniffing dogs, and many other items)
7. They would recruit well even without the above due to being a blue blood BUT above reasons send them through the roof.
Meanwhile, Michigan fans scream from the mountain tops that it's unfair. Michigan isn't willing to do most of the above. OSU wins. Accept these facts or keep tormenting yourself by arguing or whining. Going to be this way for a while...my hope is the upcoming new rules level the playing field, but the above 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, and 7 aren't changing even in that scenario.
December 5th, 2019 at 11:26 AM ^
Yeah, UofM should just stop teaching anybody, give out degrees like Halloween candy and have 100% of the students and faculty support the football program.
I mean, are u sErIoUS or what?
December 5th, 2019 at 11:32 AM ^
So, there are a bunch of thoughts I have, some of which are only tangentially related to each other.
- Agree with the need to put up or shut up about cheating. If you have proof, pass it on. If you don't, quit whining about cheating and cheaters.
- I also agree with the "glass houses" argument. That is to say, I think cheating or unethical stuff has gone on in various quarters for years. The Fab 5 get all the notoriety, but the reality is that Bill Frieder ran a pretty loose ship too. I know an OL who was recruited by Bo back in the day. He made clear to me that shenanigans went on then just as much or more than they do today.
- I'm a bit tired of the academic standards argument. Michigan is a great school and my alma mater. Is it on the same level as Stanford and Northwestern or the Ivy League? I don't think so. Close, but not the same. We're kind of hopeless homers about this. But more than that, the academic standards for many athletes are greatly relaxed. I'm pretty sure that admissions to the music school and art school are based more on musical and artistic ability than on your SAT/ACT verbal and math scores. The same is true for athletes. As long as bare minimum academic standards are met, a 5 star kid will get into Michigan. Bottom line: I don't think the academic difference between Michigan and OSU football players is vast. And while Michigan is better than OSU overall, in terms of academics, OSU has risen significantly in the last 30 years.
- As a side note to academics, I have come to believe that online classes aren't necessarily for slackers, and don't mean that you're cheating. I would have to ask current students, but I believe that there are online classes at Michigan as well. While I prefer going to lectures and personal interaction, there are times and places where online coursework is appropriate.
- I also don't think that coaching is the key problem. Harbaugh and Brown and Gattis and Warinner and Zordich and the rest are mostly fine. If you took all of OSU's players and all of Michigan's players and switched jerseys and coaches, I'd bet that Michigan would win and OSU would lose. From my perspective, coaches are the fall guys and the scapegoats. Yes, there can be bad coaching, but I don't think that's our problem.
- In my estimation, because of the playoff structure, Bama and Clemson and OSU have had a huge advantage in recruiting, and will do everything they can to keep it. 4 & 5 star players want to be in championship games, and so they will choose to go to schools where they have the best chance to play in a championship. This doesn't just happen automatically, but those schools understand that they want to stay elite and at the top of the hill. Once they fall off, it can be very hard to get back up.
- I also think that Michigan had a long way to go to overcome the bad OL play that has been there for many years. I think our OL is fine now, but it took time to build the momentum to get there. I really hope we keep Warinner, and that we continue to bring in 5 solid OL kids every year. We're pretty good, but not great. Improve a bit more, and we'll see our running game improve. Amazing what a solid OL does for the run game.
- From where I'm sitting, the DT's, and then possibly the LB group, are where Michigan needs to improve. Even Mo Hurst was smaller than ideal at the position.
- I fully expect going forward for Michigan to only lose one or two games a year. Unfortunately, one of those games will be to OSU. To beat OSU, Michigan will need to get a little better, have better QB play, and improved DT play. They will need the ball to bounce right, and for OSU to have some things go wrong.
- Right now, it is hard for me to see Michigan beating OSU half the time or more. For that to happen, there is going to need to be a scandal or something else to pull OSU down.
December 5th, 2019 at 11:34 AM ^
I know some older OSU fans pretty well.
They absolutely don't think OSU cheats, or if they do, no more than all the other top programs.
I think there are a lot of fans like this.
December 5th, 2019 at 11:44 AM ^
Michigan needs to fix its preparation, execution and motivation problems first before it starts abandoning our principles to pay the players. I said in another post: how depressing would it be for Michigan to get its hands dirty - only to have those bought-and-paid-for 5* mega-stars to play like dogshit in the biggest games of their lives? That's the problem here.
Also - wasn't Shea Patterson the #1 QB in his class? Isn't our receiving corps stocked with future NFLers? Haven't we had highly sought-after recruits (Gary, Peppers) who go pro early? Michigan has A LOT of talent on the field and I don't believe that the gap between them and Ohio State is so big that it should result in savage beatings, which it has the last two years.
One thing that seems undeniably true to me is that Ohio State is obsessed with this game and Michigan is not. When was the last time you saw a Michigan player or team play completely out of its mind because they wanted to win so bad?
Ohio State is the #1 team in the country and possibly the best team college football has seen in a few years. Michigan needed to play a PERFECT game to beat them. Ohio State played perfectly. Michigan came out and fired six bullets into their own feet. And it happens every fucking time.
December 5th, 2019 at 11:44 AM ^
(doubled)
December 5th, 2019 at 11:56 AM ^
I mean, I don't care if Michigan paid guys to the degree other programs do as well. It's not my money, and why should I care if Chase Young gets money from someone willing to give it to him?
OSU absolutely breaks rules; so does Michigan. The degree I think matters somewhat, especially the off-the-field stuff (which is really the only line I see some teams more willing to cross than others), but schools like Clemson, Alabama, OSU, etc. are also REALLY good at the football side of things. Michigan isn't quite there, and that's a hurdle they can overcome internally. I think the move to bring in Gattis is a good one on that front, and while everyone is dying to fire Don Brown I think he's been really good on defense and I'd hate to see him leave because he's still one of the best in the business as a DC.
December 5th, 2019 at 11:56 AM ^
I mean, I don't care if Michigan paid guys to the degree other programs do as well. It's not my money, and why should I care if Chase Young gets money from someone willing to give it to him?
OSU absolutely breaks rules; so does Michigan. The degree I think matters somewhat, especially the off-the-field stuff (which is really the only line I see some teams more willing to cross than others), but schools like Clemson, Alabama, OSU, etc. are also REALLY good at the football side of things. Michigan isn't quite there, and that's a hurdle they can overcome internally. I think the move to bring in Gattis is a good one on that front, and while everyone is dying to fire Don Brown I think he's been really good on defense and I'd hate to see him leave because he's still one of the best in the business as a DC.
December 5th, 2019 at 11:56 AM ^
I mean, I don't care if Michigan paid guys to the degree other programs do as well. It's not my money, and why should I care if Chase Young gets money from someone willing to give it to him?
OSU absolutely breaks rules; so does Michigan. The degree I think matters somewhat, especially the off-the-field stuff (which is really the only line I see some teams more willing to cross than others), but schools like Clemson, Alabama, OSU, etc. are also REALLY good at the football side of things. Michigan isn't quite there, and that's a hurdle they can overcome internally. I think the move to bring in Gattis is a good one on that front, and while everyone is dying to fire Don Brown I think he's been really good on defense and I'd hate to see him leave because he's still one of the best in the business as a DC.
December 5th, 2019 at 11:57 AM ^
I mean, I don't care if Michigan paid guys to the degree other programs do as well. It's not my money, and why should I care if Chase Young gets money from someone willing to give it to him?
OSU absolutely breaks rules; so does Michigan. The degree I think matters somewhat, especially the off-the-field stuff (which is really the only line I see some teams more willing to cross than others), but schools like Clemson, Alabama, OSU, etc. are also REALLY good at the football side of things. Michigan isn't quite there, and that's a hurdle they can overcome internally. I think the move to bring in Gattis is a good one on that front, and while everyone is dying to fire Don Brown I think he's been really good on defense and I'd hate to see him leave because he's still one of the best in the business as a DC.
December 5th, 2019 at 12:17 PM ^
Michigan needs to fix its preparation, execution and motivation problems first before it starts abandoning our principles to pay the players. I said in another post: how depressing would it be for Michigan to get its hands dirty - only to have those bought-and-paid-for 5* mega-stars to play like dogshit in the biggest games of their lives? That's the problem here.
Also - wasn't Shea Patterson the #1 QB in his class? Isn't our receiving corps stocked with future NFLers? Haven't we had highly sought-after recruits (Gary, Peppers) who go pro early? Michigan has A LOT of talent on the field and I don't believe that the gap between them and Ohio State is so big that it should result in savage beatings, which it has the last two years.
One thing that seems undeniably true to me is that Ohio State is obsessed with this game and Michigan is not. When was the last time you saw a Michigan player or team play completely out of its mind because they wanted to win so bad?
Ohio State is the #1 team in the country and possibly the best team college football has seen in a few years. Michigan needed to play a PERFECT game to beat them. Ohio State played perfectly. Michigan came out and fired six bullets into their own feet. And it happens every fucking time.
December 5th, 2019 at 12:24 PM ^
Honestly, the Ohio State fans I bump into in Northern Michigan are all pretty decent folks. Even when I first moved up here and the game was competitive.
the MSU fans have been far, far worse.
December 5th, 2019 at 12:31 PM ^
Thing is, we need a coach that would be willing to go this route. I don't believe Harbaugh would risk tarnishing his name along with Michigan's if he/they got exposed. We won't contend with Alabama, OSU, Clemson and the like until we "play the game".
December 5th, 2019 at 1:07 PM ^
If a fan said it on a hearsay basis or it was posted on the internet or this blog, I'd consider it a fact beyond reproach. Thanks for sharing!
December 5th, 2019 at 1:25 PM ^
The California "image and likeness" statute is a good model for the future. Conceptually, it's the solution. Please note, if the NCAA goes with this idea, one effect will be the legalization of bagmen. "Son, I collect memorabilia from the high school careers of Enormous State University athletes. I'd like to pay you [the going rate for a 5-star at his position] for your chin strap."
Why do I like this approach? First, it costs the schools and their athletic departments nothing more than what a revenue sport currently costs. The extra money comes from outsiders.
As a consequence (and second), there are no Title IX complications. The university isn't favoring a class of athletes, whose composition doesn't reflect the goals of Title IX; outsiders are choosing to pay the players that generate fan interest. (Conversely, if a member of a revenue sport isn't getting paid, the fans aren't cheering for you; they're cheering for your jersey. Harsh but true.)
Consequently (and third), it works for the stars of non-revenue sports too; think Katie Ledecky or Simone Biles. Currently, athletes who shine in Olympic sports have a hard choice at 18. They can go to college on athletic scholarship, but give up the chance to cash in as a pro while they do. It maybe their only chance. Katie Hoff and Missy Franklin won medals as high schoolers, but injuries ended their careers before they graduated from college. Michael Phelps studied at Michigan, coached the men's swim team at Michigan, but never competed for Michigan because his professional earnings were much more than the value of a scholarship. Suppose he didn't have to choose?
Folks this is the answer. I have no moral objection to Michigan bagmen paying our athletes what they are worth. My objection is to breaking the rules to do it. Yeah, the NCAA and the B1G are a bunch of money grubbing hypocrites who refuse to enforce the rules. But, joining a corrupt system isn't going to change it, and IT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED! After all, who benefits when workers have to go under the table to get paid? Not the workers!
December 5th, 2019 at 1:25 PM ^
Ohio St. runs their football program to be elite. And win championships.
Michigan runs their football program to make money. And win just enough so their whiny bitchy fans (Not all but a majority) can spout off about being of high moral character and self righteous ass holes.
December 5th, 2019 at 1:27 PM ^
The California "image and likeness" statute is a good model for the future. Conceptually, it's the solution. Please note, if the NCAA goes with this idea, one effect will be the legalization of bagmen. "Son, I collect memorabilia from the high school careers of Enormous State University athletes. I'd like to pay you [the going rate for a 5-star at his position] for your chin strap."
Why do I like this approach? First, it costs the schools and their athletic departments nothing more than what a revenue sport currently costs. The extra money comes from outsiders.
As a consequence (and second), there are no Title IX complications. The university isn't favoring a class of athletes, whose composition doesn't reflect the goals of Title IX; outsiders are choosing to pay the players that generate fan interest. (Conversely, if a member of a revenue sport isn't getting paid, the fans aren't cheering for you; they're cheering for your jersey. Harsh but true.)
Consequently (and third), it works for the stars of non-revenue sports too; think Katie Ledecky or Simone Biles. Currently, athletes who shine in Olympic sports have a hard choice at 18. They can go to college on athletic scholarship, but give up the chance to cash in as a pro while they do. It maybe their only chance. Katie Hoff and Missy Franklin won medals as high schoolers, but injuries ended their careers before they graduated from college. Michael Phelps studied at Michigan, coached the men's swim team at Michigan, but never competed for Michigan because his professional earnings were much more than the value of a scholarship. Suppose he didn't have to choose?
Folks this is the answer. I have no moral objection to Michigan bagmen paying our athletes what they are worth. My objection is to breaking the rules to do it. Yeah, the NCAA and the B1G are a bunch of money grubbing hypocrites who refuse to enforce the rules. But, joining a corrupt system isn't going to change it, and IT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED! After all, who benefits when workers have to go under the table to get paid? Not the workers!
December 5th, 2019 at 1:31 PM ^
Ohio St. runs their football program to be elite. And win championships.
Michigan runs their football program to make money. And win just enough so their whiny bitchy fans (Not all but a majority) can spout off about being of high moral character and self righteous ass holes.
December 5th, 2019 at 1:43 PM ^
It always baffles me how it seems people from the North like myself are always doubting that teams actually pay players. I create rosters for NCAA 14 and I am constantly talking to fans and or members of various teams and the SEC is the worst conference for this stuff. Most of them openly talk about paying players and the various other things they do to recruit kids. They not only are fine with it but they encourage it. If Michigan fans are going to keep complaining about losing to the OSU's of the world then they better start realizing that the game isn't played on a level field well before the ball is ever kicked off.
Our freshmen miss most of Spring practice for starters, and we completely miss out on the entire JUCO league as well. We miss out on a lot of players bcuz of grade issues while these other football schools do not. Michigan is serious about academics and OSU is serious about football and it shows. If you were told you could get a degree and not even have to go on campus all the while still getting to play would you honestly say no to that offer?
I am seriously hoping that with players being able to profit off their own likeness now that it will help level things out.
December 5th, 2019 at 2:09 PM ^
Do you think Michigan is clean? We have bagmen too, maybe not super sleazy ones but we have them. You cant tell me players are getting offered $100k from other schools and decide to come to Michigan because we offer a great education. Nobody on our football team is driving around in a 15 year old Honda Civic...