A conversation with a Buckeye fan at The Game

There are two different philosophies in play here.

Speaking in generalities, Michigan develops the student athlete, paying more than lip service to academics. Trips abroad are a prime example. We, as a fan base, seem to take pride or at least find solace in that. 

OSU is more like IMG Academy on the next level. They concentrate on developing athletic talent. 

Enforcing academic rigor on those with the goal to play football professionally may not make sense. Offer the opportunities, certainly. On the other hand, OSU is known for their football program almost exclusively and not as an elite educational institution  

Sure we want to field winning teams, but it’s up to University leadership to frame the narrative of how they want the program and Michigan in general to be portrayed. 

Smoke leads one directly to fire, or some smoldering bits that will eventually flash if not addressed.  The more smoke there is, the hotter the fire/smoldering. 

I don't doubt that UM provides some benefits around town that are technically unallowable.  But I also don't think they partake in such 'benefit laundering' at a top tier level.  And quite honestly, I firmly believe that if they tried, the attempt would be so ham-handed and publicly obvious that the NCAA would be forced to react.  Mostly because they'd come clean in an effort to avoid the worst, regardless of precedent that says 'ignore us and keep playing' (for reference, see: Stretch-Gate, Dave Brandon/Rich Rodriguez).

I'll say that Brian's article sucked.  Some points he made are valid, but the overall tone was a whiny, pathetic, and immature.  Which is exactly how he handles losses, so...

This is the first time you've heard this? I have family who went to LSU, and all the SEC fans I meet don't just admit to these shady things occuring, they openly say "We better be doing it". Thats just the culture. Their athletes are basically paid mercenaries. They just want the best no matter what it takes. 

I imagine these guys are the exception rather than the rule. When Harbaugh's satellite camp was the raging Hot Take topic du jour, the chatter from the South was "yeah, he's just gonna go and pay off the players to go up to Michigan." Clearly some of that is projection. When I've shared Hackett's comments that Rashan Gary turned down a lot of money to come to Michigan, none of them had ever heard the quote and were genuinely shocked that the AD would say such a thing. Because the assumption was "everybody does it" or at least "everybody else."

That said, it's been a couple of years since I've had these conversations. It could be that the narrative has shifted, and it's simply become accepted that if you want to compete with the big boys, you have to play the game by their rules.

Surely a big part of the state of affairs is that media coverage 100% ignores this as an issue. Winners win because they play harder, care more, are better prepared, blahblahblah. Some recruiters are just better salesmen, better in the living room, "keep on the kid" better, kill it on social media, blahblahblah. And of course that very few reasonable people think that players shouldn't be entitled to any compensation. This has diminished the issue further.

Recommended reading: Reefer Madness by Eric Schlosser which analizes three black markets: undocumented labor, pornography, and marijuana and how they are viewed by the public, by the letter of the law, and by the enforcement of the law. Of those three, this version of the black market is closest to undocumented labor - a lot of complaining/outrage, and definitely against the rules, but widely used anyway by those who can benefit.

(I am rambling. Sorry for the lack of brevity. I have consumed many coffees.)

I, for one, welcome our new OSU overlords.

To me this comes across as pathetic excuse making.

OSU's football program is simply better.  They attract higher-level recruits and their coaching staff is top notch.   The results show up on the field.

My hope is that Ryan Day is not an elite coach and that right now he's riding Urban Meyer's coattails.  That's all we've got because after 5 years one thing is clear to me - Harbaugh is not an elite coach.   He's a good coach to be sure, and the numbers back it up.  But he's not elite and UM is never going to be what OSU has been over the past 15 years or so with Harbaugh as head coach.  

When Harbaugh got asked about the talent gap between Michigan in OSU, I really wish he had just responded:

"Yeah, I'm really tired of how the recruiting game is played nowadays. So, my message to recruits - 'Whatever Alabama/Clemson/OSU is offering, I'll pay double'. But since the NCAA doesn't seem to care or know about any payments those schools are making, double of zero is zero, right? (*winks at reporters*) So I didn't just commit an NCAA violation by saying that, because according to the NCAA, I'm not offering recruits anything."

Someone needs to get whatever is going on above the table to make things fair. The name/likeness rights are not going to make things better for Michigan vs. OSU. The entire state of Ohio is OSU oriented. Their players are gonna be in every commercial, just like references to their teams already are. Michigan shares a state with MSU fans, so outside of Ann Arbor, there probably aren't going to be many opportunities for Michigan players because companies aren't going to want to offend 30% of their customer base. I don't think the NCAA is going to allow boosters to just pay $100k for an autograph every year as a salary.

I kept trolling the Buckeyes in front of me by singing "How much is that Defensive End in the window, the one with the golden dreads".

They laughed. Facts are facts.

The fans in Columbus are mostly "okay" with it. All my friends are Ohio St fans (I'm odd man out) and have noticed two things when speaking with them or other intelligent OSU fans. 1. When discussing about payments they are okay with it. They believe in order to compete for CFB there has to be some dirtiness. Its truly a win by all means necessary. They also say that it's not as bad as people think in terms of payments to players but clearly is happening. 2. They sympathize for us. They no longer think of it as a rivalry and just another game they expect to win. This is the sad part for me or anyone who has to deal with osu fans on a consistent basis.  

Weird, I have a TTUN fan that lives in my neighborhood.  We hang out a lot.  He is convinced that every major college program is doing this, including his alma mater.  He also says that the reason OSU is now at the top of the conference, is they have won two NC's this century, have put an abundance of players in the NFL that have succeeded, and that brings the top recruits into the program to have the same success.  He has never once said that OSU cheats but his alma mater does not.  He just says it's about winning.  Also, he believes what Marty Blazer says happens, although he doesn't know if it is true in Blazer's circumstance.  He also doesn't discredit every person that hints that these things happen at TTUN as a troll.

What I have heard second-hand (I have family in Columbus who know many former OSU players)...

Archie Griffen left the Athletic Department when Tressel was coach due to the overt nature of perks and payments to players.  He has refused to go back to the Athletic Department because the "system" Tressel encouraged has become institutionalized:  loaner cars, tattoos, loans from "family friends", thousands of dollars of cash found in players' safes, etc..   It isn't too hard to put two and two together here.  OSU football is king in Central Ohio and there are plenty of benefactors with no other competing interests willing to go all-in to support the cause. 

A cultural shift from "follow the rules" to "here are the rules, don't get caught" could create a similar situation for Michigan football; however, far more Michigan Alumni and fans have competing interests vs. OSU Alumni and fans, e.g., a second home in Northern Michigan, a boat, etc.; therefore, replicating what they have would likely be on a smaller scale.  Most of us are passionate about and enjoy Michigan football, but it doesn't define our lives like it does in Central Ohio.

Well if they’re able to justify cheating in recruiting, I bet they use the same logic to justify googling for answers while taking their online classes!!1!!!11!!1!

You don’t say?  

I don't know any bucknut fans

Just Kick Ohio up to the NFL- they are leaps and bounds ahead on all fronts and we know why. Don't stop it or investigate it- give them more money and make them an NFL franchise. The rivalry was nice once upon a time, but it's getting awfully boring lately. Getting amped up for The Game, and getting my soul curb stomped every year to the point of hating to even read about college football at all or even watching any is getting to be too much every year.

My buddy is a huge KU basketball fan and openly acknowledges Bill Self uses bagmen and has no moral reservations about it. Basically the sentiment from fans of these schools is:

1. These kids should be paid

2. If "we" don't pay them someone else is going to anyway

3. We (insert school you root for) are still the best institution for said athlete and that's what sets us apart from the rest in recruiting. Not how much $$$ we toss. 

Personally I agree the kids should be paid. I don't want Michigan to jump in the swamp with the rest and do this behind closed doors but I thought we missed on a huge opportunity being an institution that publicly advocated for the Fair Play act before it passed in Michigan. Keep the moral high ground if you insist, but this is an opportunity to level the playing field for institutions who play by the rules while still benefiting the student athlete. 

The one OSU colleague I have, when we discuss sports at all, admits that he lives to hate Michigan.  He would clearly prefer to maintain an image that OSU is winning cleanly, but if he's called on it, he does not deny what is happening. Winning is what matters.  

Four OSU fans nearby in our section were straight up antagonistic.  That part won't shock anyone.  When they started winning, they unleashed the full assholery .  Heckling their own band at halftime for "pandering" to us (whatever that means). When they fumbled they roared like they had been shot.  It didn't matter they were already winning by a large margin.  In 50 years of attending games I've seen everything - except what I saw Saturday.

The fan base reflects the culture of the institution.  Michigan is not likely to change its culture so the best thing to do is address the rules situation or make changes to our schedule.  

You are all missing a key point.   tOSU has Justin Fields enrolled in 2 hours per month of online classes, which started in October.....even though Fields had been on campus since January ("enrolled") and played in the Spring game, without ever having been to a class.

Although he has almost no academic interference with his football, once the season is long over, he will no doubt take a heavier "class" load through winter and summer.  OSU is willing to create online classes, so football players' practice and workout schedule is not interrupted during the season.

It is not cheating, just a sign that your "school" exists to put sports teams on the floor.   The basketball coach brought in 4 top 100 players this year.  Wonder who needs to go class?

1.  I'm assuming that the channels in which payments are made make it extremely difficult to investigate this stuff.  Evidence has to be overwhelming for them to do anything, and the juice isn't worth the squeeze to obtain that evidence.  The athlete has to do something pretty dumb to essentially dare the NCAA to investigate (Maurice Clarett).

2.  I still maintain that it's in the NCAA's best interest to look the other way.  The schools most likely to pay players are the largest cash cows for the NCAA.  Plus, paying players legally would crush the NCAA's bottom line.  Any means in which that scenario can be avoided or delayed benefits the NCAA.  Shifting that enormous expense line item to private investors more than happy to foot the bill (and being powerless to demand anything from the NCAA in return) is the NCAA's best-case scenario. 

Quid pro quo

Meh. Sure, OSU is probably dirtier than we are, but that isn't why they own us right now. They've had better coaching and they'd have better talent whether there were illicit dealings down there or not.