Big 12 Expansion
The Big 12 officially voted to invite BYU, UCF, Cincy, and Houston to the Big 12. BYU has already said yes. Just awaiting responses of the other 3. Highly likely that they will.
On a more Michigan centric view of this, I wonder how Cincy joining a Power 5 conference will affect OSU's dominance in the state of Ohio. They've clearly gone for a more national approach in recruiting, but with Cincy becoming a bigger program, I wonder if OSU will have to fight a bit harder to secure targets within the state, as Michigan has to do with MSU.
September 10th, 2021 at 1:05 PM ^
Biggest problem with that is the PAC 12 is going a completely different direction as the driving force behind the proposed Alliance between the ACC, B1G, and the PAC12.
There appears to be little interest, if any, by the PAC in adding anyone from the Big 12.
September 10th, 2021 at 11:01 AM ^
Lol. It will be a dead league with any remaining good teams getting swallowed up by an actual good conference. This is the desperate death rattle of the Big 12.
September 10th, 2021 at 11:15 AM ^
Would you care to elaborate on who the remaining good teams are?
September 10th, 2021 at 11:22 AM ^
Fair point, but I think you can make an argument that Baylor and West Virginia are still legit Power 5 programs across multiple sports. But this is my point, all they have done by this is solidify themselves as a mid-major conference. To remain relevant and still be seen as a Power 5 conference, they need to get in better programs than they already have once Texas and Oklahoma leave. This just deepens the mediocrity.
September 10th, 2021 at 12:01 PM ^
When Baylor and West Virginia, late of the SWC and Big East, are the two best programs in your conference, you have issues.
By all means, name all the other available programs for them to add that would be better programs than what they added.
They have done what they could, which was better than sitting on their collective asses and fading away. They will be the new Big East, which was a P5 in name only, and only marginally better in funding and quality of play the G5's best.
This pretty much ensures they will squeeze every dollar they can out of Oklahoma and Texas to keep the cashflow they currently have as long as possible. Smart move.
September 10th, 2021 at 10:57 AM ^
Would a better one be to do nothing and fold in a few years? That seems to be your insinuation.
September 10th, 2021 at 11:01 AM ^
Will anyway.
September 10th, 2021 at 10:57 AM ^
I would take all 4 of those programs into the big ten in a heart beat over Maryland and rutgers. Hell you can argue all 4 are better or at worse on the same level as Nebraska
September 10th, 2021 at 11:08 AM ^
All 4 of those programs are way better than Nebraska. I'd rather keep Maryland and even Rutgers (since they have recruiting advantages if nothing else) and just boot Nebraska, a bad investment that the conference should stop propping up every year.
September 10th, 2021 at 11:19 AM ^
Lol in what world? Not in terms of money they bring to the conference, academics if you care about, or historic success in revenue sports, outside of maybe BYU
September 10th, 2021 at 11:28 AM ^
Success in the past 20 years
September 10th, 2021 at 12:52 PM ^
Maryland has clearly had more basketball success in that timeframe, football too since MD was playing in ACC championships and went to a bcs bowl in 2001.
September 10th, 2021 at 2:06 PM ^
It's a non-starter.
Agree with it or not, The B1G has long had their flag firmly planted on a hill called "Academics".
I see no reason to believe that will ever change, as the B1G is easily financially in a better spot than ANY conference, including the SEC.
As much as the SEC is raking in the $$$ on the athletic side of the equation, they otherwise can't match the B1G financially.
Bottom line: The BIG wouldn't want any of the four who are about to merge with the Big 12.
September 10th, 2021 at 2:12 PM ^
"As much as the SEC is raking in the $$$ on the athletic side of the equation, they otherwise can't match the B1G financially. "
As though that matters...
The B1G will continue to rake in more research dollars... but if they aren't careful, the SEC will become the P5 and everyone else will be shut out of big time college football.
September 10th, 2021 at 3:10 PM ^
Convince the academic side and the school presidents and the regents, provosts and others that football matters most. I'll emphasize my biggest point here:
The Big Ten long ago planted their flag on the hill called "Academics". Everything else revolves around that.
The fact remains that, other than maybe at ohio state, the athletic directors don't run the show. Overall though, those actually in charge of things do realize the financial bounty strong athletics bring because not only the TV contracts but also the big donor $$$$$$$ that is raked in. And that's where they draw the line on sports vs academia.
Athletic programs, especially football and basketball, matter a lot to the vast majority of us here. To those that make the final decisions, though, athletics might best be termed as a "necessary evil" rather than the main focus.
September 10th, 2021 at 2:13 PM ^
The other half of his point was sound: adding Nebraska was stupid on every possible level.
September 10th, 2021 at 3:24 PM ^
In hindsight, it probably was. They've never had a good basketball program and they hamstrung their football recruiting when the Texas pipeline dried up upon leaving the Big 12. Then the AAU disqualified them from membership because of the technicality that their medical school is located on their Omaha satellite campus rather than in Lincoln.
I think that if the B1G was right now looking at Nebraska's application to join, rather than a couple decades ago, it would be stamped
R E J E C T E D
September 10th, 2021 at 3:40 PM ^
Planted on the hill of academics, except for Nebraska
September 10th, 2021 at 5:01 PM ^
Yes, but again, Nebraska was AAU when the B1G first admitted them.
And since the AAU reversed themselves and booted UNL when they no longer counted the boost Nebraska got from their medical school at UNO, it's now obvious that Nebraska was already a borderline AAU Member.
September 10th, 2021 at 10:39 AM ^
They keep expanding their footprint. Can't wait for that West Virginia vs BYU conference title game played in Dallas.
September 10th, 2021 at 10:48 AM ^
The league is on life support and they had to do this in order to stay in the power 5.
September 10th, 2021 at 11:30 AM ^
As soon as Texas and Oklahoma are officially gone, that designation should be rethought. But it is all probably moot. The conferences will be completely blown up as we traditionally think of them very soon anyway.
September 10th, 2021 at 10:57 AM ^
So can we officially just go with the Power 4 and drop the Big 12 from the Power 5?
September 10th, 2021 at 11:10 AM ^
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Is it really even a power 5 conference anymore? I can't believe any TV station is going to offer them much money for a tv contract. I'd bet that a huge percentage, if not almost all, of Big 12 games over the years that were shown by Fox or ABC had Texas or Oklahoma as one of the teams playing in the game.
September 10th, 2021 at 11:26 AM ^
I agree the Big 12 doesn't have a team that is in the top level of college football, or even a program that realistically could be a sustained top 4/5 type team.
ACC- Clemson, Florida State
SEC - Alabama, Georgia, LSU, Oklahoma, Texas potentially
Big 10 - Ohio State now, Penn State or us could potentially get to that level (hey I can dream)
Pac-12 - No one right now but they still have USC and Oregon who have that potential
Big-12 - ?????
At this point the Big 12 is in a weird spot between the power 5 and the group of 5.
September 10th, 2021 at 12:46 PM ^
At this point the Big 12 is in a weird spot between the power 5 and the group of 5.
That's exactly what happened to the Big East, which one day would have been part of a "Power 6". This is Preacher Mike's point. The Big XII is headed toward being the new AAC.
Similar with the WAC. Used to be a decent conference...then it over-expanded, got watered-down and the traditional WAC programs left to form the MWC, and the WAC was left with all the dregs.
Big XII is on its way to being significantly less "Big" (in terms of relevance).
September 10th, 2021 at 11:03 AM ^
OSU is going to be incredibly annoyed that Cincy is now a "P5" program - they've fought very hard to keep everyone in Ohio except them a tier below. I don't think it'll have a major effect on OSU's recruiting but I do think schools like UK, MSU, etc. that really relied on getting the second-tier Ohio recruits to play P5 football are going to find it even harder to convince kids to go there when Cincy has P5 credentials now.
September 10th, 2021 at 11:44 AM ^
It won’t pay off for a few years, but another P5 team in Ohio, especially an awesome city like Cincinnati, will start to look good to some kids! And we all know OSU never wanted another power 5 team in the state, so this is great just for the fact it will piss them off!!
September 10th, 2021 at 12:18 PM ^
20 years ago I would have agreed with you, now they get kids from all over and they will still get the best from Ohio. I think this will keep Fickell at Cincinnati as long as he wants now
September 10th, 2021 at 2:17 PM ^
And hopefully it becomes harder for OSU to avoid playing them, at least now and then. Will elevate Cincy's stature if they do.
September 10th, 2021 at 5:22 PM ^
OSU & UC have played 6 times since 1999; as recently as 2019.
September 10th, 2021 at 11:06 AM ^
BYU should be with Utah in the PAC## but the move to the Big12 is good for them.
The Big12 was put in such an unenviable position of replacing mega-teams with scraps or outright folding.
September 10th, 2021 at 11:07 AM ^
So what team is now the most prestigious team in the Big 12? Oklahoma State?
September 10th, 2021 at 12:30 PM ^
Kansas I would believe
September 10th, 2021 at 11:14 AM ^
The big question looms! Does the new Big 12 get invited to join the Alliance? The Alliance Death Star is almost fully operational! (just in case) /SARCASM
September 10th, 2021 at 11:15 AM ^
Cincy vs. WVA is rivalry in the making right there.
September 10th, 2021 at 11:17 AM ^
Am I crazy or would Memphis have been a better add than Houston and UCF as well perhaps?
Houston market is already owned by Big 12 with the other schools, and UCF while a solid football program, offers little of much else and is (very) far from the rest of the conference. Memphis at least is regional, and provides solid Football and Basketball.
Memphis is probably better than Cincinnati as well overall, but at least Cincy gives a regional rival/travel partner for WVU.
BYU has everything, but the Sunday rule has always been the dealbreaker.
September 10th, 2021 at 12:09 PM ^
I don't think TCU (In DFW) Baylor (in Waco) and Texas Tech (In BFE) bring Houston's market as much as you think. Not to mention 2 of those schools are small Christian affiliated schools.
I would have gone with Memphis over BYU, just because they have no natural rivals and will be a pain to travel to, but not Cinci. Cinci helps WVU as much as being a good add.
UCF you take if you can get them.
September 10th, 2021 at 1:02 PM ^
Well, Memphis football is ok now, but in the last 10 years they've also been one of the absolute worst FBS teams for a time. UCF at least gives the Big 12 a tentacle into Florida and the southeast for crootin
September 10th, 2021 at 1:19 PM ^
I disagree on Houston - they were the most obvious Big XII add to me. Huge market where the Big XII was weaker versus the SEC even prior to Texas' defection. It's more LSU & A&M territory.
There are some reports out there that Houston was going to get an invite back in 2016, but the non-UT and non-OU schools scuttled it. Texas was in favor of the Houston add (according to those reports), so a number of other schools defaulted to opposition as they became suspicious of Texas' motives.
And one wonders why the conference was so unstable, ha ha
September 10th, 2021 at 11:25 AM ^
If I’m the big 12 I would not stop there. Gobble up every elite non power 5 team and add boise state, south Florida, and memphis. Expand to 16 immediately
September 10th, 2021 at 11:30 AM ^
This is most likely the plan and what I have heard here in B12 land. People are shitting on this, but it was the only option. Its also a pretty decent football and a great basketball conference. Are they the SEC or the BIG? No, but it is still a good group of schools at the major sport level. They will get decent TV money when the negotiations come.
September 10th, 2021 at 12:12 PM ^
Yeah, USF and Memphis are no brainers. I'm not so sure about Boise St. I get that they are good at football, but they really bring nothing else to the table.
September 10th, 2021 at 2:54 PM ^
Good point in regards to Boise State. Memphis at least would also bring a strong hoops program to the Big 12.
September 10th, 2021 at 2:27 PM ^
This is why they were also looking at Western.
September 10th, 2021 at 8:36 PM ^
I'm sure USF finally announcing they are building a football stadium has them thinking this will happen in due time
September 10th, 2021 at 11:27 AM ^
I wouldn’t join the big 12. Once Texas and Oklahoma are gone that conference will be a glorified AAC. Might as well stay where you’re at and see how everything plays out before a move like this
September 10th, 2021 at 11:30 AM ^
I was hoping they would invite UAB. The meltdown in Alabama would be epic
September 10th, 2021 at 12:41 PM ^
Blazers will probably get an AAC invite.
September 10th, 2021 at 11:39 AM ^
Hell yeah, another power 5 team in Ohio!!