6-0 start: Once every five years (& Content request)
Apparently we are only able to get a 6-0 start once every five years since the advent of this blog: 2006, 2011, 2016 and 2021. As this is a bye week, maybe we could make a comprehensive comparison among this team and the three 6-0 teams of yesteryears by position group? Something speculative like this:
QB: Henne (2006) > Robinson, Gardner (2011) > McNamara & McCarthy (2021) >= Speight (2016)
RB: Hart, Grady, Minor (2006) > Haskins, Corum (2021) >= D. Smith, Evans, Isaac (2016) >= Toussaint, Smith (2011)
Rationally, I also don't see any position group of this year's team being a notch above the 2006 one - except maybe the special team.
October 11th, 2021 at 11:15 AM ^
not sure how you are putting the 2006 RBs above current crop when Corum is explicitly Mike Hart but fast
October 11th, 2021 at 11:44 AM ^
"Better than MIke Hart" is a high bar.. high enough where I wouldn't give that title to anyone, until it's backed up by more than a half-season of carries. Corum definitely has the opportunity/talent to do it though
October 11th, 2021 at 1:11 PM ^
Corum breaks and spins out of tackles, like Hart did, but has the ability to run away from people. He doesn’t have the numbers, and probably won’t because of the RB committee philosophy , but he’s definitely better, imho.
October 11th, 2021 at 11:50 AM ^
RB: Hart (2006) + fast = Corum (2021)
October 11th, 2021 at 11:17 AM ^
I felt better about QB in 2016 at 6 - 0 than I do now. Feel fine about this year, just better then.
October 11th, 2021 at 11:24 AM ^
2016 Speight before the hit against Iowa was playing very well. That having been said, might have been a very different season in 2016 if we’d had a freshman backup like McCarthy ready to come in post Speight injury. I can see giving the nod to Speight over McNamara, but I would definitely take this years two deep.
October 11th, 2021 at 11:54 AM ^
IMO, the Bell injury and Worthy decommit have affected how people are feeling about the QB situation vs 2016. Darboh, Chesson, and Butt would do wonders for everyone's perception of Cade. It's not like Wilton Speight was going to do anything in the run game or had overwhelming arm strength.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:05 PM ^
Very good point. Probably would take the Jedd Fisch/Tim Drevno combination over the Josh Gattis/Sherman Moore combo.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:23 PM ^
No way. Drevno was terrible and Jedd was fine in comparison to Hoke's OC, but he had really good offensive weapons to work with
October 11th, 2021 at 5:13 PM ^
Gattis/Harbaugh/Weiss/Moore and whoever else gets to lend a hand in the kitchen have done a very good job on the whole this year. There have been some frustrating moments but the overall product has been more impressive than a lot of people feel able to admit
October 11th, 2021 at 12:38 PM ^
I would say I was much more confident in the Passing Game in 2016 than 2021 but I think Cade is a better QB than Speight. Darboh, Chesson, Perry and Butt are way better than Johnson, Baldwin, Sainristil, and All. The only upgrade of this passing game is Corum is a much better receiver out of the backfield than the 2016 backs (mainly because they didn’t use Evans enough in that role)
October 11th, 2021 at 11:20 AM ^
You might also consider creating a Diary on this.
October 11th, 2021 at 11:23 AM ^
All three defenses, 2006, 2011, and 2016 were all flashier/with proven senior playmakers The 2021 team is gelling as the season progresses. They also have the least number of turnovers among these four. I think.
It's gonna be fun. :)
I second the motion for making this into a diary. Perfect topic.
October 11th, 2021 at 11:31 AM ^
I second the motion for Diary, however lacking expertise nor time, hence the content request...
October 11th, 2021 at 12:02 PM ^
Ehhhhh…I would put this a notch above the 2011 defense. I would put Dax Hill and Hutch over anyone on 2011 as individual playmakers (even as good as Kovacs and Martin played). I would obviously give the nod for interior DL to 2011 with Martin and Van Bergen, DE’s a big edge to this years group, LB’s a slight edge to this years group because I believe they are faster and more athletic than the Desmond Morgans of the world and about equal in run fits, safeties a slight edge to this years group b/c senior Brad Hawkins is about equal to Junior level Kovacs (don’t forget how bad safeties were with RRod so our comparison to what we were used to in 2011 was skewed), outside CB’s are probably close to equal, although I think this years group is better at run fits, and Dax Hill is far above any DB on 2011 team.
As far a coordiantors I’d have to obviously give the nod to Greg Mattison, but I believe MacDonald could end up with a better trajectory and is way more creative with confusing opposing offenses.
Also 2011 was in a notoriously down period for the BiG10 (that year with FickellOSU), especially in the “having several good QB’s” dept. We dodged having to play against Russell Wilson fortunately. I remember the discussion about how surprised we were with the success of our pass defense in 2011 when in reality we basically faced no very good throwing QB’s outside of Kirk Cousins who obviously beat us, and I also recall dropping a stupid game to Iowa that year on the road.
edit: I may say 2011 LB’s closer to a wash with this year as I forgot about Jake Ryan (how dare I), but still much more athletic this year and each player with a higher upside than Ryan I think.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:19 PM ^
I like Kovacs, but do you really think he would have made the plays Hawkins did against Nebraska?
October 11th, 2021 at 12:29 PM ^
I agree with your observations, but they (2011) played what they were given. At this point in the 2021 season, the opposing QBs have not lit up the box scores/scoreboards either.
Dax Hill is definitely an upgrade over 2011.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:41 PM ^
Much agree about 2011 just playing who was on the schedule. An incredibly fortunate year 2011 was with OSU being mediocre, a “thank you for all gods” win over ND, not playing Russell Wilson, and we won the sugar bowl with less than 200 yds of offense I believe. Also very few injuries.
basically, in a nutshell, I think this years squad would beat the 2011 squad by at least a TD given how much more physical we are now and upgrades athletically at about 75% of the positions (remember how shocked UM seemed to be by the physical-ness of MSU that year?)
October 11th, 2021 at 12:30 PM ^
All three defenses, 2006, 2011, and 2016 were all flashier/with proven senior playmakers
For what it's worth: Hutch and Hill should qualify as flashy+proven senior defensive play makers
October 11th, 2021 at 1:45 PM ^
Yes. That's why I said "flashier" :D I believe these two should be solid contributors in Michigan and in NFL in future.
October 11th, 2021 at 11:31 AM ^
I've bought into the thinking that recovering turnovers is largely random, so I'm not as worried about that metric. To my naked eye, I'll go with the lack of organic pass rush on the DL compared to the previous versions.
October 11th, 2021 at 11:31 AM ^
Interesting stat and idea for a thread.
But, we KNOW how good those past units turned out to be later in the season. The initial feelings were either confirmed or denied by the play in the second half of the season.
It's hard to remember how we felt after 6 games each of those years.
October 11th, 2021 at 2:30 PM ^
I was a senior in 2011. After 3 years of Rich Rod, I felt great
October 11th, 2021 at 4:55 PM ^
I remember in 2016 thinking we were going to be national champs. I remember in 2006 thinking we were going to be national champs. I think our 7th game in 2011 was against Sparty. It didn't go well, and RR had gotten off to fast starts in 2009 and 2010 that fell flat against Sparty before everything sorta crumbled from there, so I was decidedly in BPONE back before we were calling it that. In both 2016 and 2006 I wasn't too worried about Sparty - maybe because of bad juju in 2016 but in 2006 we were just removed from Braylonfest and an OT win in 2005. The bad juju went the other way, including the Little Brother game in 2007.
FWIW this isn't 2009 or 2010 - where we had desperate escapes against Indiana, and UMass in 2010, and the D was an absolute sieve. While we have flaws, this team is a good team, and deserves the comparisons to the 3 best seasons since our last Big Ten title. (2016 was SO snakebit. That crew was so good. Losing 3 games by 2 regulation points is so...college football)
October 11th, 2021 at 11:32 AM ^
I think we'll see with the exception of RB, 2006 was the best overall, this year's team I'd put ahead of 2011, even if it ends with a worse record (2011 went 11-2 with a really soft schedule). 2016 is ahead of this team. The offense was just much more deep that year, with Chesson/Darboh on the outside, Butt at TE with a bunch of strong receiving blockers behind him. OL was solid and the RB stable was deeper if not as talented as 2021. Defense in 2016 was outstanding, with better talent across the board.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:06 PM ^
Our OL and RB talent is better and deeper now than in 2016.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:17 PM ^
Eh, I think if Bell doesn't get injured I think I would take 21' receivers. I also think the offensive line is better than 16'. 16' O-line was still prone to more mental mistakes than this years group imo. RB is probably the best of any of the teams as Haskins gives you pretty much everything D. smith did and then some, plus an electric back like Corum which the '16 team lacked and a 5* freshman that actually looks like a 5* RB.
The 16' Defense is nearly unmatched by any Michigan team the past two decades with 06' being the only competition. They were a real joy to watch having experienced and elite talent + depth at pretty much every level. The D-line was full of NFL players and the back seven was loaded to.
October 11th, 2021 at 11:38 AM ^
You forgot to include Michael Barrett in both lists for 2021.
October 11th, 2021 at 11:59 AM ^
…and did Wilton overtake any ass in 2016?
October 11th, 2021 at 11:47 AM ^
I am just going to enjoy the fact that the path of the program is directionally correct while acknowledging that we don't have the WR or DB talent to be where we eventually want to go.
The Bell loss, Worthy decommit, and Don Brown's CB recruiting put a ceiling on this year, but we are pretty close to that ceiling so I can't complain.
October 11th, 2021 at 11:49 AM ^
Johnson and Baldwin are good receivers. They would show out with a better QB to get them the ball on time. JJ would make Baldwin All BIG TEN.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:04 PM ^
Baldwin drops alot of passes, though.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:48 PM ^
'06 (Arrington, Manningham), '11 (Gallon, Roundtree, Odoms, Hemingway) and '16 (Darboh, Chesson, Butt) are head and shoulders above this year for pass catchers.
I don't understand why everyone is dumping on the QBs and not looking at the lack of receiving depth post-Ronnie Bell injury. The Cade hate seems misplaced when we are dealing with replacement level receivers.
October 15th, 2021 at 6:35 PM ^
You have forgotten what a team's offense looks like when the QB is top notch. Cade is not too notch. JJ has the athletic ability to be top notch. Raise your expectations raise your awareness.
October 11th, 2021 at 3:11 PM ^
On one of the deep balls to Johnson he didn’t even jump up for it. This allowed the trailing DB to knock the ball away. Compare Braylon in Braylonfest versus this group of WRs. It’s like they’re playing a different game.
Prior to Michigan, Baldwin had 57 receptions in 28 games. They play good football in the SWAC, but it’s not the Big 10. He was brought in for depth. He’s been given more playing time because of injuries. He’s not an all Big-10 caliber receiver (not 1st, 2nd, or 3rd teams, maybe HM if he starts getting more receptions in the upcoming notable games).
October 15th, 2021 at 10:02 PM ^
The ball to Johnson was woefully underthrown. Anybody that understands football knows that. I'm not trying to be negative but reality is what it is. Cade can't throw a good deep ball. They are either under/over thrown. #5 had to make a spectacular catch and then we only got a field goal. If people are excited with Cade I can't imagine what will happen when they actually see an upper tier talent like JJ take over.
October 11th, 2021 at 11:58 AM ^
This year's RBs are better. True thunder and lightning.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:09 PM ^
This could make a great bye-week post or diary. Some suggestions for how to build out the content would be:
- Ratings for Offense & Defense
- PFF data
- NFL Draft/experience/projection
- PPG / YPG on both sides of the ball
- All conference players
In the big picture for a single game I'd take 2006 > 2016 > 2021 > 2011.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:12 PM ^
I am not a fan of intersting but randon facts like the OP’s five year observation. But here’s another one: Michigan would win 2 to 3 Big Ten championships every five years up until the start of this blog.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:33 PM ^
While it's a tongue-n-cheek comment, RR was hired in 2008. And Big Ten was divided into Leaders and Legends. I think those have something to do with this cycle as well.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:15 PM ^
2006 - Would have beaten The Ohio State but Bo died
2011 - Beat The Ohio State
2016 - Would have beaten The Ohio State but zebras were corrupt
2021 - Pray
October 11th, 2021 at 12:40 PM ^
A few things in Michigan's favor this year:
1. It's a home game. If the game was in Columbus they wouldn't have a chance.
2. This defensive scheme seems like the perfect match to OSU's offense. Just hoping the players can execute when the time comes.
3. Based on what you've written in your comment, Michigan is due for a victory.
October 11th, 2021 at 5:03 PM ^
So what you're saying is we are undefeated at home vs OSU when we start 6-0
October 11th, 2021 at 12:31 PM ^
Offense:
2006 > 2011 > 2016 > 2021 - Era adjusted. 2021's offense is currently performing better (YPG) than every other team, but they haven't hit the meat of their schedule. Given 1 game, I'd take Henne/Hart/Manningham over everyone else.
QB: Henne (with his supporting cast) > Denard (just based on his talent) > Speight ~ Cade
RBs: Corum + Haskins > Hart + Grady > Smith + Evans > Toussaint
WRs/TEs: Manningham + Arrington + Breaston > Chesson + Darboh + Butt > Hemingway + Gallon > 2021
OL: 2011> 2006 > 2021 > 2016
Defense:
2016 > 2006 > 2021 > 2011
DL: 2016 ~ 2006 > 2021 > 2011
LBs: 2006 > 2016 > 2021 > 2011
CBs: 2016 > 2006 > 2011 > 2021
Special Teams:
Can't really remember 2006 or 2011 as a unit, so I'll just go by players the best I can remember.
Zoltan ~ Robbins > Allen > Hagerup
Moody > Allen > Rivas ~ Gibbons
Breastson > Peppers > Odoms > Henning
October 11th, 2021 at 2:22 PM ^
this is... sobering. I might need to temper my expectations for the back half of the season a bit.
October 11th, 2021 at 2:53 PM ^
Well, I think some position groups are close to their predecessors and could overtake them/the whole could be greater than the parts at some point.
Offensively, Cade could end up clearly better than Speight and the RBs have boom potential with their talent and a good OL (that could be really good). They need the WRs to step up and Cade to hit the shots they give him. If they get better, I'd put the offense close to 2011 because that offense could bust bad or explode (because of Denard).
Defensively, the DBs are the biggest questions. If the scheme can protect them and the LBs settle down a bit, the defense could be very good. We're comparing them to 2 of the best 3 Michigan defenses in the last 20 years (2017 being the other) so I wouldn't be too discouraged by my opinions.
Also, there is a hope that coaching now is better than at least 2006 (it's definitely better than 2011).
October 11th, 2021 at 12:37 PM ^
I think instead of asking someone else to do it, why not do it yourself? You've already got a head start with 3 position groups.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:46 PM ^
Does anyone recall off the top of their heads: "Was Minor ever 'Major'"?
...Every announcer was soo clever that season.
October 11th, 2021 at 1:05 PM ^
I remember him being really friggin good. Maybe it's just because those 2008-2009 teams were so putrid that every half decent player looked like a good to me but I can't remember him every gaining less than at least a yard even on those crappy Olines.
October 11th, 2021 at 12:48 PM ^
I don't know if it's pure nostalgia seeing as how I became an M fan in 2009 but Brandon Minor looked like one of if not the best Michigan running back in the past 2 decades when fit.
It's a pity injuries completely derailed his career but I distinctly remember one play wherein he trucked over an Iowa DT, rolled over on top of him, and then kept running.
Anyone share my opinion or are my college memories of Mich football during its dark ages playing tricks on me? I also thought Brandon Graham was the best defensive player this program has had since I started watching don't @ me.