The 2-QB package is probably not going away
From what I've seen, every fan and media member thinks putting both Shea and McCaffrey on the field at the same time is dumb. Unfortunately, none of us get a vote. Signs point toward this happening again.
Tuesday, he [McCaffrey] said that the idea for the two-quarterback package came mostly from offensive coordinator Josh Gattis. “He had seen and done some of it in the past," McCaffrey said, "and it’d been effective for him, so figured we could try here.” For now, it would appear likely that Michigan hasn't shown the entirety of the package.
As we all know, Locksley called all the plays at Alabama while Gattis just played tiddlywinks in the coaches box. However, in between shooting winks in the pot, Gattis probably looked up and saw Tua and Hurts together on the field:
The one-two punch of Hurts and Tagovailoa has also been rather forceful. Against Arkansas, the package netted 16 yards per play. A week later, it pushed Alabama into the red zone before setting up a field goal to extend the Tide’s lead over Missouri. And in the win over Oklahoma, it helped finish off the Crimson Tide’s third scoring drive.
I think Gattis is not done with this obsession.
September 4th, 2019 at 10:59 AM ^
Jalen Hurts ran a 4.48 40 in Alabama's spring testing last year.
That is the same time that Christian McCaffrey ran at the Combine.
Hurts: 6'2", 218lbs, 4.48 40
Dylan McCaffrey: 6'5", 220lbs, 4.8 40
September 4th, 2019 at 12:35 PM ^
Where did you get the 4.8 40 number? He looks pretty fast on the field.
September 4th, 2019 at 1:21 PM ^
I would be surprised if Dylan didn’t run better than 4.8.
September 4th, 2019 at 8:51 AM ^
The Peppers / Wildcat experiment was my first thought too. Hoping this one evolves a little better over the season than that one did.
September 4th, 2019 at 8:37 AM ^
Are two QBs enough for a single play?
September 4th, 2019 at 8:47 AM ^
Three would be better.
September 4th, 2019 at 10:00 AM ^
There's only two out there because he can't have three.
September 4th, 2019 at 8:39 AM ^
I'm getting pretty tired of Michigan hiring all these second rate offensive coordinators without ever opening up the job for all of the online offensive geniuses we have right here on this board.
September 4th, 2019 at 10:08 PM ^
I agree Pep, Drevno, and Fisch were all pretty bad. And thank god Enos slipped away.
September 4th, 2019 at 8:41 AM ^
I believe it was probably just something they put in to add some excitement.
Conclusion: It Did Not. Initial intrigue ...Yes, though.
Contrarily, the aftermath has created the opposite effect.
I don't mind the idea, I just wish the ball wasn't thrown or caught on a poorly blocked screen, setting McCaffrey up for potential disaster.
Use Mike Barrett. Problem solved
That McCaffrey interview was cringeworthy to me. I can't stand the coaxing and fishing for headlines the people who cover our team attempt sometimes. McCaffrey handled it exceptionally well though.
September 4th, 2019 at 8:44 AM ^
Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:45 AM ^
You’d know!
September 4th, 2019 at 8:48 AM ^
I don't understand why people seem to be against it? If Alabama ran it and it was successful, why can't it be successful here? Sure, it looked like a backwards fire drill, it was also the first game. I swear, our fan base would be upset if we scored 70 points against MTSU. Let's get through Army and Rutgers before we start really getting concerned on the game planning and offensive strategy.
September 4th, 2019 at 11:12 AM ^
We probably could complete a 9 yard pass to McCaffrey. We could also probably complete a 9 yard pass to Tarik Black even more easily. I don't think Bama gained anything substantial out of it. I think it was just a fun gimmick that gave people something to talk about...just like here in Michigan.
September 4th, 2019 at 8:54 AM ^
I see a misdirection wheel route TD pass from Shea to DM in the future.
The screen in traffic to Dylan was confusing to me.
September 4th, 2019 at 8:58 AM ^
As long as they tweak it unlike the Jabrill Peppers Wildcat Experience, I think there's potential. Some passing out of the set would probably work. Maybe. Who knows.
I'm wary of one of the QBs getting blown up and ruining the depth.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:15 AM ^
I can understand this line of thinking and football is football. Players get hurt doing all kinds of things. If the two QB package and a couple series a game keeps Dylan on board and away from the transfer portal, I'm all about it. Him transferring at the end of the season would be disastrous to our depth.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:25 AM ^
There is an element of this in the coaches calculations I believe.
They have to deal with "free agency" now.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:41 AM ^
Except Shea is gone at the end of the year, leaving Dylan the presumed starter. I don't think keeping Dylan from transferring is their impetus for running that set.
I didn't love the two qb plays but I'm sure there are some wrinkles that will make it a viable set down the road. As a poster above stated, I can foresee a quadruple option where Patterson takes the snap, makes a read on the jet sweep to Dylan, who them has a pitch option to the back.
September 4th, 2019 at 1:19 PM ^
How is playing time THIS year an issue for a kid who is the heir apparent for next year?
Who would leave (for playing time) at the end of a season when you’re almost a shoo-in for starter the following year?
PS - Solomon was a different case altogether.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:13 AM ^
Not that we don't have athletes but I think you can dink around with a lot of goofy stuff and make it work when you have the athletes Alabama does.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:14 AM ^
I’m pretty sure Princeton ran a 3-QB system or had a 3-QB playbook a few years ago. Obviously, there’s a difference between the Ivy League and the Big 10.
It’s going to take everyone except for Northwestern linger to figure out
September 4th, 2019 at 9:23 AM ^
PSU lined up both QBs the backfield, so that they defense didn't know who the ball was going to...this seems to be better than splitting the other QB out wide as that is an easy cover...
the two qb backfield has its own issues, ie not having a blocker, so whomever gets the ball, they need to get rid of it fast...
not a fan, and it seems to me that McCaffrey<any WR on the roster, so why do it? Especially if the result is a gain of 1 yard versus MTSU
September 4th, 2019 at 9:24 AM ^
In that case, just practice one or two great plays with it and bring them out at big spots. Trying, and failing, with some poorly thought out stuff against MTSU is just a bad idea, lessens the surprise, and looks like it is even frustrating the players.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:39 AM ^
Trying, and failing, with some poorly thought out stuff against MTSU is just a bad idea
Actually, the opposite true. Trying and failing, in every facet of life, is how success is almost always attained. Do you think the architects of the Wishbone offense had it down immediately? What about Bill Walsh and the West Coast offense? Did it attain its full success on day 1? Further, repping a couple of plays against MTSU — a veritable scrimmage against a team playing hard, but one that will (almost) never beat you — is the EXACT time to try out a few things.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:51 AM ^
I disagree with this train of thought in this particular circumstance. Nobody is inventing a new offense here. I think many on here are fashioning our coaching staff a little bit too clever. There is no indication to me that there is any real thought to running with two QBs on the field on a regular basis. If so, god help us.
Pepcat was teased with very low levels of success for two years until it just died a slow death because it was neither clever enough to fool defenses nor did it evolve. For years Lloyd Carr would sit on a play for nearly a season or until the exact moment he needed it and then it would be executed flawlessly. Develop about two plays that you are very confident will work, work on them daily, and have the confidence that the team will execute them when called upon. Before you know it John Navarre will be high stepping toward the end-zone on a 50 yard TD catch.
September 4th, 2019 at 10:18 AM ^
Well stated, fair point(s).
I stand chagrinned.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:32 AM ^
I’m curious to see what they come up with and how it expands in the future. Condemning this package because, three seasons ago, a very different offensive staff tried to get the ball into its best athlete’s hands with limited success is a bit of a reach, IMO.
Yes, it was clunky and didn’t yield much. But, it’s a work in progress, that I wouldn’t expect the staff to put fully on display vs MTSU — just like we only saw a glimpse of the RPO. Gattis has said over and over that he wants the offense to be “multiple” and the 2QB package is just another layer.
I think too many fans are scared mentally and emotionally and wear their BPONE like a badge of honor. Although I was disappointed the 2QB package wasn’t a resounding success, I found it fun to watch and fully expect it to click and become productive. If not, oh well. It’s a game played by college kids.
September 4th, 2019 at 10:13 AM ^
Very weak post. The ending, copping out with the "Oh well, it's just college football!" is bullshit. Either you care or you don't. If it was a shit idea that resulted in shit, we're on a Michigan Football message board at 10am on a Wednesday to call it shit. That's why we're here.
Nothing they did on Saturday was better off because two QBs were on the field. Nothing McCaffrey (or Patterson) ran as a WR was better than if an actual receiver were running that play. It doesn't matter what this eventually might lead to. None of those plays were better off with that personnel, regardless of result. Period. There's no more to it. You can be excited because you saw McCaffrey as a WR. That doesn't mean it had any value or impact. Tarik Black running decoy jet motion is much more terrifying and attention grabbing than McCaffrey or Patterson.
You can fully expect it to click and become productive all you want. You can't convince me a play-action screen to a WR has a better chance to work when that guy playing WR is our backup QB. Specifically, that one single play, was worse off with the personnel they used. That's why it was crap. We made ourselves worse just to be cute.
September 4th, 2019 at 10:19 AM ^
Well stated, fair point(s).
I (again) stand chagrinned.
September 4th, 2019 at 11:13 AM ^
" Condemning this package because, three seasons ago, a very different offensive staff tried to get the ball into its best athlete’s hands with limited success is a bit of a reach, IMO. "
I agree...
Condemning this package because, across the last 40 years of college football, it has been a failure 90%+ of the time isn't much of a reach though.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:35 AM ^
this is more about getting D Caff on the field than anything else imo. He’s fast but he’s not very shifty or elusive so he’s not that big of a running threat. Hurts is a literal RB playing QB it’s a big difference. Really hoping this doesn’t turn into Pepcat 2.0
September 4th, 2019 at 10:00 AM ^
Hurts is built like a RB but last week and the 2nd half of the SEC championship game shows he can throw the ball effectively and efficiently.
September 4th, 2019 at 10:16 AM ^
If the plan is to get McCaffery on the field, I prefer he and Shea rotate in traditional QB positions. I find it very hard to believe removing one of our stud WRs in place of Dylan gives us any advantage. It seems like a net downgrade for our personnel.
Not a knock on Dylan, just that our WRs are better in space and give us more flexibility in what they can do.
September 4th, 2019 at 10:35 AM ^
This is my thought too! The package is not worth leaving someone like Tarik, Nico or DPJ on the bench.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:37 AM ^
If they scrapped every play that didn't go perfectly the first time it was called, they probably wouldn't have an offense.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:37 AM ^
If they ran 2 QB plays that gained a lot of yards without getting both of them slammed by the defense, sure...I'd be happier about that. I remain skeptical of this approach.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:45 AM ^
I think the challenge is the all too vivid memory of Peppers in shotgun, waiting until the last second so every defense was exceptionally well aware of the change, and then never doing anything more exotic than just running a jet sweep out of the formation....if I remember there may have been at least one time he appeared to consider throwing.
The only way I see this type of package working well is at a higher tempo and truly working to catch a team having to react. Unless you put a pause in the defense with the option to throw, it is not much of a real threat, although the execution on them was not done well enough to tell if any might have actually had an RPO built in.
September 4th, 2019 at 10:02 AM ^
He considered throwing against Minnesota in 2015. That's it. It was DOA and he ran out of bounds for a one yard loss.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:45 AM ^
You run it until it has a good probability of setting up a huge trick play or mismatch in numbers against OSU.
Really, just do whatever it takes to beat OSU...
Put in 3 QBS, a, genocidal dictator, plumber, barista, midget, sweatshop worker, professor of thermo-nuclear fision....I dont give a shit - win the game.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:45 AM ^
I think they’re running Mcaffrey to set up some big pass plays against Wiscy or maybe even army. It’s not like Dylan wouldn’t start at 90% of d1 schools and can actually pass. I also think they’ve got a ton of confidence in Milton because eventually Mcaffrey is gonna get hurt if he keeps running.
September 4th, 2019 at 9:50 AM ^
How much of this is Harbaugh's answer to the transfer portal? Would something like this keep back up QBs from looking for a chance to go somewhere else and start right away? I know that McCaffrey's not transferring because he's the presumed starter next season. But how does it look for Milton, who's two years minimum away from starting? Next year he's the one who's seeing time on the field in the dual QB system.
As long as it doesn't turn into this: "McDoom's in, look for the jet sweep." Predictability will kill it and will kill a QB.
September 4th, 2019 at 10:10 AM ^
I continually am amazed at the negativity of the posters on this board. So many 'supposed' fans of Michigan continually bad mouth our talented coaches or players...as if they are smarter than the brain trust of coaches we have running the team. I suggest that if you are not happy with the way that Michigan plays football, that you go find a different successful team to support...such as Alabama, Clemson, or 'that team down south'...a team that you can be happy with.
September 4th, 2019 at 10:45 AM ^
I'm an "old guy" too, but your take is just wrong. People can still be fans and raise reasonable criticisms of what the coaches are doing. It's not a matter strictly, of being "negative". Expressing critical statements is just some fans ways of dealing with the frustration of knowing the team could be doing better than they are. You sound like David Brandon in telling others to go root for another team.
September 4th, 2019 at 10:00 AM ^
I don't like both of them on the field at the same time.
I'm fine with McCaffrey coming in for a series or two to provide a different wrinkle to the offense.
September 4th, 2019 at 10:01 AM ^
Not one single person here, there or anywhere else has explained the advantage of having two QBs on the field at the same time. Some have mentioned having 2 QBs in the backfield standing next to each other. Why? Who cares who receives the snap? What is tricky about that? One of them is receiving the snap and the other is responsible for doing RB stuff. It is not tricky to have that guy with RB duties listed as a QB in the program. As soon as that play is live, the defense will treat him as a RB.
We want to believe it's some crazy mind-bender for defenses to consider, but if MSU came out and lined up both Lewerke and Lombardi in the backfield, who here would give a rats ass? All you've done is take away a more dangerous ball carrier in favor of two guys who can throw (allegedly). There's only one ball. They can't both pass. One is the QB and the other is dead weight.
Same goes for lining him up at WR. There is nothing tricky about McCaffrey lining up in the slot, motioning and receiving a screen. That's regular-ass football stuff. You're defending that the exact same way as if it were Sainristil or DPJ or anybody else, and I have much more confidence in their natural ability to run a route, catch, turn and make people miss.
As ijohnb just stated above me, if you have a trick play where that 2nd QB is going to receive a pitch or a handoff and throw, then run that play. That's the only play where that 2nd QB makes sense. In any other scenario, it's just sub-par personnel. If Dylan McCaffrey is better at running, carrying and receiving than Mike Sainristil or Giles Jackson, then okay. I don't believe for a second that he is. That makes the whole concept nonsensical.
September 4th, 2019 at 10:04 AM ^
Well said. This is exactly where I'm at with that stuff.
September 4th, 2019 at 11:26 AM ^
Reggie, you're one of my favorite posters. If I could put two of you on the board at one time, I totally would.
September 4th, 2019 at 10:02 AM ^
This feels like a way to keep the back up out of the portal, Not a huge fan of this. Seems like we are taking away a bigger threat wideout off the field for a gimmick.
September 4th, 2019 at 10:20 AM ^
The portal theory would make sense if Patterson weren't out of eligibility. McCaffrey is getting the Michigan job next year. It makes no sense to transfer... unless he hates this staff in which case getting him killed at WR probably isn't fixing that.