WTKA Roundtable 8/17/2023: The Bitty Show
Things Discussed:
- Realignment news: will Big Ten and SEC band together?
- Seth: Whatever—what they’ve created isn’t tenable because it’s 100% money-driven so it’s going to get blown up anyways.
- Also Seth: Where are the elected officials? At least one regent has spoken out but even he isn’t going to stand in the way. Why aren’t we holding people accountable for making decisions that are only about money if we care about things other than money? Or are we part of the same hypocrisy?
- What’s up with the NCAA? They’re a failed org that nobody but Warde Manuel takes seriously.
- Barnhart starting? Probably an early fall thing, and a mental thing, because Jones grades out higher. They do love Barnhart as a 6th guy but he’s also started the most and played the most for Michigan of all their options, and as we saw with Cade last year, that counts in this program.
- May see them use the nonconf games for tryouts again.
- Somebody there has an agenda to get Jim Harbaugh, and Harbaugh has an agenda to not admit to lying, so there’s your impasse.
- Why is PSU’s secondary and RB getting ranked higher than Michigan’s? RB is insane—those guys have speed and they’re good backs, but you need to watch the film to understand why Corum is so much better than every other back in college football. Secondary is defensible—PSU has two very good returners and a higher floor for the other cornerback spot.
- We are down on Drew Allar though.
- Recruiting? The Scotts were Will Johnson recruits for Ohio State—if they can’t get corners and DTs in recruiting they fall back, because they’re not developing them anymore.
- Michigan had too many DEs, Smiths also did this to Notre Dame, but not a great loss. Brian & Seth disagree on whether Miami “did us a favor” because Brian thinks if you flip to Miami you weren’t going to work out here and Seth things Michigan has shown they can develop edges with bend in remarkable circumstances.
- Bryce Underwood: If he goes to LSU it’s because LSU will spend everything they have to get a quarterback and Michigan will spend everything they have to build the best children’s hospital in the world.
[Hit the JUMP for the player, and video and stuff]
You can catch the entire episode on Michigan Insider's podcast stream.
Seth was on ahead of time with an update on the boy. THANK YOU to MGoBlog readers, and the Michigan community at large, and to Mott for their caring and competence. Segment 2 is here. You can watch the video here:
MGoBlog Roundtable https://t.co/s92KBhvKmm
— The Michigan Insider (@michiganinsider) August 17, 2023
The Usual Links:
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Direct download link (right-click/save as)
- What's with the theme music?
He didn’t have that word before, but it was absolutely the correct usage.
August 17th, 2023 at 12:06 PM ^
Seth, I can’t believe you’ve only just discovered Seoul Street! That place is an absolute treasure. I spent two years in the apartments next door. Hope you and your family are doing well.
August 17th, 2023 at 1:23 PM ^
I remember working in a lab in GG Brown and walking over there every now and then for lunch. I should really go back...
August 17th, 2023 at 1:59 PM ^
Its like that old Mitch Hedberg joke about a baked potato, order Seoul Street now because you never know you might be hungry in an hour or two
August 17th, 2023 at 2:37 PM ^
Whenever I am in town for work I stay at the Sheraton right there. Seoul Street is the best. My Korean colleague turned me onto it, its the only place he will go for korean bbq.
August 17th, 2023 at 12:08 PM ^
As frustrating as it might be for Michigan sports fans, Michigan prioritizing health and education instead of high school athletes is OK by me. We support you and your family Seth.
August 17th, 2023 at 7:41 PM ^
Most definitely Health is much more important than football. Continue to be an institution of higher education that tries to make the world a better place
August 18th, 2023 at 7:41 AM ^
What if I told you they could do both? If winning national championships isn't the priority it should be, just rename the place Harvard West, go to D-III and be done with it.
Underwood will end up at LSU. They'll win a national championship. Michigan will never win anything. But they'll act superior anyway.
August 18th, 2023 at 5:37 AM ^
Was this the blog's first tacit admission that they misunderstood the aim & focus of the "money cannon"?
Not that it's wrong to prioritize the things UM & its alumni base do, but the football program generates billion$, and Michigan could & should be Leaders & Best at distributing some of that to the players.
Fuck the pathetic ncaa & its arbitrary rules...
August 17th, 2023 at 12:28 PM ^
Only read the show notes, didn't listen yet, but coming in STRONG with the holier-than-thou Miami/LSU takes. And I am here for it lol.
August 17th, 2023 at 1:50 PM ^
If Bryce Underwood is foolish enough to play for Brian Kelly I am sure we do not want him. Brian Kelly has not produced any quarterback of note AND he is known for treating his charges like absolute shit. I get wanting to start day 1 when you are a recruit of that caliber but it should not be that simple.
August 17th, 2023 at 3:17 PM ^
Look, you and I both know objectively that U of M is a better landing spot than LSU. It's an epistemological fact. As a parent of a teenager, I know how hopeless it is to reason with one. Kids make decisions for reasons. Try to understand them at your own peril. Maybe he walked by a girl who smelled nice. Maybe the food was better. Maybe he hates snow. Maybe M practices too early. God, it could honestly be anything. Best not to get our feelings hurt if it goes the wrong way for us.
But dang I'd sure like him to play for the Wolverines.
August 17th, 2023 at 4:55 PM ^
Unless something significant changes, LSU will likely be offering Underwood 3-5x what Michigan will.
And nobody around here would like to hear it, but Harbaugh's QB development record isn't anything to write home about either.
August 18th, 2023 at 12:04 AM ^
Are you forgetting Andrew Luck, Alex Smith, and Colin Kaepernick by accident, or do you only count quarterbacks of the team you root for?
August 18th, 2023 at 5:40 AM ^
And Rich Gannon (career journeyman to MVP under JH)
And also Josh Johnson, still playing in the NFL as of the last NFC Title game - to the 49ers chagrin...
August 18th, 2023 at 1:20 PM ^
Now do Michigan QBs. In terms of realistic 1st 2nd round NFL aspirations it's one. I ain't counting Rudock.
August 18th, 2023 at 3:18 PM ^
I don't believe his statement included that condition, but thanks for defending him anyway.
August 19th, 2023 at 1:41 PM ^
The comment we responded to said Harbaugh had no record of QB development.
Now if the point had been less lazy & said from 2017-2020 he underperformed on QB development, then we'd have had no argument.
But when reduced to those data points it would look pretty dumb, so...🤷♂️
August 18th, 2023 at 4:30 PM ^
High school kids see that Harbaugh has not developed a QB at MI worth anything since he has been the head coach at MI. That will play a role in whether or not they will decide to commit to UM more than NIL. The other thing is will Harbaugh be the head coach at MI over the next four years or even next season in 2024?
August 19th, 2023 at 5:56 AM ^
Lack of development hasn't stopped elite QBs from committing to OSU for, what, decades?
As to your second sentence, I find it hard to believe (laughable?) that an OSU fan, of all people, would seriously argue that players will choose better chance at development over the promise of cold hard cash in hand.
August 17th, 2023 at 12:31 PM ^
I would like our President and Regents to become the Leaders they have been appointed/elected to be and to drive the conversation about what is next for major program athletics. Yes, I've conspicuously left Warde off the list, because I live in the world of the probable.
August 17th, 2023 at 12:39 PM ^
when the 18 team big ten blows up, i just hope the result is SMALL leagues for football only - like 8 team leagues. That way we can play all our rivals OOC if needed.
I have no hope that whatever follows will be logical.
August 17th, 2023 at 2:57 PM ^
I'm not sure the Big Ten will ever blow up. It will remain the most lucrative conference out there for a long time, and even if this is driven by money, the research consortium is not a small consideration for people on the academic side of things. That would be difficult for a school to walk away from.
I think it's more likely that the league keeps on expanding until it is functionally like two (or more) conferences.
August 17th, 2023 at 3:15 PM ^
Isn't the issue that the conference might kick a school out? I mean, why does NW and Iowa collect as much dough from the conferences as M/OSU? That's the argument FSU is making in the ACC, anyway.
I think that's short sighted: a strong conference top to bottom makes for a strong Michigan. If IU/Iowa/Purdue/NW football has $50M/yr in revanue coming in compared to Wake/GT/ISU/Baylor, then those 'bottom of the B10' teams should be able to get better players, coaches, facilities, etc. than the 'bottom of the ABB/B12' teams.
August 17th, 2023 at 4:36 PM ^
I'm happy that Oregon and Washington are getting to play big time football - but I honestly think splitting up the Pac12 was short sighted by everybody. I think it makes the Big Ten unwieldy, kills interest from the West Coast in their own football teams (and yes, they all did have fans).
This is a process that has been ongoing for about 30-35 years and has made the big ten a lot of money and made the Pac12 and ACC fodder for the other leagues and saw the Big12 shrink to smaller programs but have good economics....so I won't say the Big Ten has been devoid of long term, strategic thinking. But the big ten's interests don't really align with my interest as a fan.
August 18th, 2023 at 2:20 AM ^
Strongly disagree. From a fan support perspective, the Pac 12 was well behind the other power conferences - a reality largely created by Larry Scott’s mismanagement. But beyond that, America’s center of gravity skews east. There’s a lot of truth to the talk about west coast Heisman candidates being at a disadvantage because journalists - along with the rest of the country - are watching so few of the west coast games. I just don’t think a conference can be viable without an east coast presence, and any teams without an east coast connection are automatically irrelevant to half the country.
August 17th, 2023 at 4:53 PM ^
I can’t see the Big Ten kicking anyone out. That’s just not how the league has operated. A school would have to voluntarily de-emphasize athletics first.
The main risk to the conference would be for a network to offer a ton of money to a few schools (UM/OSU/PSU/USC) to join a CFB Super League. I don’t think we’d be up for it though.
August 17th, 2023 at 6:26 PM ^
We just broke up the Pac12 - our partner league for the last 60 years, breaking up rivalries that date back a century. Those schools that left their rivals are now in the Big Ten. I fully expect the 4 schools you mentioned - including our dear alma mater - to entertain anything that can make them more money and make them more competitive for a national title.
August 17th, 2023 at 7:54 PM ^
The only thing we shared with the Pac-12 was the Rose Bowl. They were not partners in any other way. The Pac-12 ignored everything the Big Ten did to create a successful business model and tried to do things its own way. This failed miserably, and USC wanted out. The Big Ten ultimately capitalized on this situation, but did not create it.
I don't think Michigan would leave the conference for the simple reason that it ultimately wouldn't be in our interests to only compete with schools of the same football profile as us. It would be a lot more difficult to contend for championships that way - and if we aren't winning, selling out a 107,000-seat stadium becomes a lot more difficult.
August 17th, 2023 at 4:28 PM ^
I think at 14 teams, the 2 divisions were functionally two different leagues with a scheduling agreement. Functionally, we are more in the same conference as Rutgers and Maryland than Purdue and NW, and it's been that way since 2014. When we go to 18 teams and no divisions and 9 league games - I'm not sure how it'll feel. There is only one league race, there will almost certainly regularly be 3-way ties for spots in the championship game among teams that don't play each other. It'll be goofy, but that's not necessarily worse.
August 18th, 2023 at 2:43 AM ^
If I had a say, I’d expand to 20 and then implement a system with two divisions of 10 teams, which would each play a 9-game intra-division schedule. Each would then send a division winner to the conference championship game (played alongside 2-3 other “showcase” games). EXCEPT, I’d resort the divisions every other year so that the matchups stay fresh.
August 17th, 2023 at 12:43 PM ^
One of the good parts about my months at Mott was the local food. Angelos for breakfast, South U for lunch, Main Street for dinner...I think I regained my freshmen 15 during the period.
August 17th, 2023 at 1:07 PM ^
Also Seth: Where are the elected officials? At least one regent has spoken out but even he isn’t going to stand in the way. Why aren’t we holding people accountable for making decisions that are only about money if we care about things other than money? Or are we part of the same hypocrisy?
I always bring up how when the Big 6 clubs of the EPL tried to join the Super League, the fans of the Big 6 and the rest of the English football system protested fiercely against the clubs and demanded their elected officials put a stop to it which they did successfully. In the US, we’re so used to greed driving all decisions that we just shrug our shoulders and move on.
August 17th, 2023 at 1:09 PM ^
- Somebody there has an agenda to get Jim Harbaugh, and Harbaugh has an agenda to not admit to lying, so there’s your impasse.
If by somebody you mean Jim Stapleton then yes, he most definitely has an agenda and it's clearly aimed at Harbaugh. And because Warde plays by the rules even when his opponent is openly flaunting them, we wont mention his name or his history of very personal dislike for Jim and the University in general.
Basically this cat's been on a Jihad since his guy Ron English didnt get the HC job after Lloyd left.
August 17th, 2023 at 1:33 PM ^
This is the same guy? From 15 fucking years ago and the Llyod illuminati? Wasn't he an EMU regent/trustee/something related to EMU?
JFC man
August 17th, 2023 at 1:44 PM ^
It's the same guy who reportedly derailed Harbaugh's interview with the Vikings a couple of years ago....for reasons.
August 17th, 2023 at 1:44 PM ^
I agree with Seth about losing Rudolph. I felt he had the best potential to be the next big impact DE for UM from the group of DE's who were committed in this class.
I'm not as disappointed by the impending Smith twins decommits. I think Jerod is a loss but I was never that high on Jacob.
August 17th, 2023 at 5:04 PM ^
Rudolph was the best pass rusher but at only 200lb there was serious question if he could grow to be an every down player. Jacob Smith I saw as a solid Jaylen Harrell type.
Jerod Smith was intriguing but we do have three somewhat similar commits in Owen Wafle, Ted Hammond (who I'm really high on), and Manuel Beigel.
I think Devon Baxter has the highest potential at Edge, but he's fairly raw.
And of course Mason Curtis and Cole Sullivan could end up at Edge as well.
August 17th, 2023 at 8:40 PM ^
Ending up with only Nichols and Baxter, neither of whom are top 300 recruits, when we were in the mix for Mayo and Robinson and had Rudolph and the Smiths committed is a major disappointment in my opinion.
August 17th, 2023 at 1:57 PM ^
The nature of elected officials in this country is not how it's portrayed. They don't know what the electorate-at-large wants, and don't care. They figure out how many votes they need, and then go look for just enough suckers to keep them in power, and then go abuse that power in the ways they had in mind all along.
August 17th, 2023 at 2:10 PM ^
Wouldn't most of the grading difference between Jones and Barnhart be that Jones got hurt before our toughest opponents? Both are iffy in pass pro but Jones was getting beat against CSU and Hawaii. At the very least I don't think it's clear that he should start at RT.
Also Phil Steele ranked Michigan’s backs #1 in the country for the record.
August 17th, 2023 at 3:22 PM ^
Also Phil Steele ranked Michigan’s backs #1 in the country for the record.
So did Athlon
So did CBS (Sallee)
So did Bleacher Report
So did 247
This feels a little click bait-y on Mgoblog Roundtable's part. If anyone is ranking PSU higher, it's certainly a minority/fringe position. Why give fringe opinions oxygen? Seems like they are just trying to fill airtime.
August 17th, 2023 at 4:57 PM ^
There was also a poster last Friday (comments in Alex's OL ratings) saying "all kinds of people are treating PSU's OL like the 90s Cowboys, and ignoring the Michigan OL!"
It's either (1) folks giving fringe opinions oxygen, or (2) folks trying to manufacture a feeling of "Michigan is the underdog" --- but, it's a bit strange.
I get it, it can be more fun being the hunter than the hunted --- but nationally, folks are higher on Michigan this August versus any of the other 30-35 Augusts I can recall.
August 17th, 2023 at 3:26 PM ^
Hot Take: Drew Allar was not the best PSU quarterback in the spring game.
August 17th, 2023 at 3:29 PM ^
- Bryce Underwood: If he goes to LSU it’s because LSU will spend everything they have to get a quarterback and Michigan will spend everything they have to build the best children’s hospital in the world.
Just a slight correction, Seth:
If he goes to LSU it's because LSU will spend everything their boosters have stolen from hospital charities to get a quarterback and Michigan will spend everything they have to build the best children’s hospital in the world.
August 17th, 2023 at 6:22 PM ^
Yes that was the joke.
August 18th, 2023 at 8:54 AM ^
Seth -
You made a confident statement about how the B10 is preparing for the day when players get TV money. A couple weeks ago Sam also mentioned that as if it were a certainty. While I think that is a logical and equitable assumption.....I can't figure out why you guys think it is going to be that much of a sure thing.
First off, we have 100+ years of evidence that the powers-that-be in this sport will do anything they can to keep the money for themselves rather than the players. All of this "NIL" money is just coming from rich donors, not the schools. The only way we even got to that point was through multiple law suits that took years and years and were fought the entire way by the NCAA. So are we expecting some player to sue over TV rights?
Secondly, even in the event that the NCAA and big conferences lose a suit or miraculously decide to share the pile of money with their employees, there are two other big problems. First off, paying players directly opens the door to the entire tax exempt, amateur model that the NCAA is built on. That is a fundamental shit in the entire economics of universities. Then there's the legal battle over Title-IX that would no doubt ensue when football players are getting paychecks and women's rowing isn't. I'll ignore the problem of Michigan wanting to allow Rutgers players to get the same cut of the TV deal.
Finally, even if all of those hurdles are figured out - Who is representing these players in TV negotiations? There is no professional sport where TV money is shared with the players that doesn't include a union. Are we assuming the NCAA or B10/SEC are just going to come up with a plan in a boardroom with Fox and ESPN to generously share money? So let's say a union forms....now think about how many work stoppages have occurred in pro sports to establish those rights - benefits, TV money, revenue sharing, medical provisions, pensions, etc. Again, a complete pivot in the entire institution of college sports.
I'm not saying it can't happen or shouldn't happen. But to navigate that landscape takes creative thinking, humility, willingness to change, and generosity. Those traits have never been associated with the leadership of college sports. I just don't know why you and Sam think it is going to happen. More likely you will see the big teams break off and either create their own content or form a mini super league.
August 18th, 2023 at 9:32 AM ^
Really glad to hear the updates on your son's improving health Seth.
Also chiming in to say I love Brian's idea on getting the 2nd string OL more playing time this season. We're so deep at that position, and frankly playing more 2 deep is only going to benefit everyone. Until we get to those 2 games.
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