Jack hired him first. [Bryan Fuller]

Wink Martindale Named Defensive Coordinator Comment Count

Seth February 9th, 2024 at 8:30 AM

First broken by Sam Webb, Michigan intends to hire Don "Wink" Martindale to replace Jesse Minter as defensive coordinator.

Wink was the defensive coordinator of the Ravens from 2018-'22, meaning he's the DC who developed the "Ravens" defense that Michigan's been running, and was the coordinator Mike Macdonald and Jesse Minter were reporting to before leaving for college jobs. Mac replaced Martindale in 2022, and Wink coached the New York Giants defense for the last two years.

If you're looking for a reason Michigan could pull a guy like Martindale out of the NFL now, the Ravens clearly chose to move on to Macdonald after 2021, and the Giants were 23rd and 30th in DVOA in the two seasons since, so the shine's come off. But he also checks the boxes that Sherrone Moore wanted for his DC hire, namely continuity, experience, and a big enough deal that the big deals on the roster don't get lured away by big deals in the portal.

If your goal for this hire was to get whomever Jesse Minter suggests, it's hard to do better than Minter's mentor. But of course we're Michigan fans flush from winning a national championship on the strength of the defense, so let's address the nits.

[After THE JUMP: Analysis.]

Can he coach a Ravens defense?

Well yeah it's his defense; Martindale was the Ravens defensive coordinator when they committed to running this stuff in 2018. Both Jesse Minter (analyst 2018, DBs 2019-'20) and Mike Macdonald (LBs 2018-'20, Wink's analyst before that) were assistants under Martindale, with Mac succeeding Martindale as both Ravens LBs coach and defensive coordinator. John Harbaugh and Martindale "mutually parted ways" after the 2021 season, and Wink went on to two rough years with the New York Giants that also ended mutually this offseason.

The Giants are so dysfunctional I can't contextualize anything that happened there, but you have to wonder if Wink was The Amoeba Guy why the Ravens were willing to lose him in 2022. The stated reason was Wink wanted to be a head coach.

Considering his replacement would succeed Pete Carroll in two years, that seems like spin. Baltimore fell from 6th to 20th in DVOA the year Martindale lost Macdonald, and returned to 5th their first year under Mac; they were 1st this season. Clearly Macdonald himself was a major part of the Ravens' success under Martindale, but the '21 Ravens were wracked by injuries, particularly in the secondary. It's pretty clear that Wink was due for a big new contract, and John Harbaugh realized he could get the same or better out of Macdonald for much less.

On the other hand, this is the guy who was the coordinator who came up with the system Michigan rode to a national championship with a pair of his assistants, one of whom is now an NFL head coach and another a coordinator. New Ravens DC Zach Orr was an undrafted free agent who played for Martindale from 2014-'16 then became an analyst under him in 2017-'20 before taking an assistant role with the Jags in 2021. If those guys were just running Wink's stuff I imagine the Ravens would have hired Wink back this offseason. But he's not "just another Ravens name" either.

Wink came up through or is one step removed from just about every major 3-4 school or NFL coach you can think of, working under Bob Davie, Rick Minter, and Mike Nolan. Former Baltimore DC Dean Pees connects him to the Saban/Belichik tree.

The "Amoeba" defense actually came out of cap considerations. Pass rushers were expensive, safeties were relatively cheap, and their data showed elite cornerbacks were essential. So the Ravens invested heavily in the secondary, going with smart linebackers until they could draft cheaper ones, and trusting a huge defensive line to mosh rush the quarterback instead of winning (expensive) 1-on-1 battles. It was their luck they developed Matt Judon into a guy who could do both.

Colin had a thread (referenced on our message board) that suggests Wink is much more of a Cover 1 and Cover 0 guy, whereas Minter and to a lesser degree Macdonald liked to use sim pressures and rotating coverages, IE the Amoeba stuff that gives the defense its flavor.

If you're lost on that chart, I think it means the Giants blitz the passing game like the Vikings, and Broncos. The Ravens influence is there in a lot of Cover 1 and Cover 3.

Ross Fulton went so far as to call Wink's defenses "Fangio-esque."

I'm not sure what they mean by that. Fangio's tree, as I understand it, shares the light boxes, off corners, wide standup edges, and disguised coverages with the Ravens, but the "system" is mostly based in two-high, specifically lots of Quarters and Cover 6. This worked a couple of times for Denver in slowing down Pat Mahomes, and has been getting eviscerated underneath ever since the scheme profligated to the Chargers (pre-Harbaugh), Seahawks (pre-Mac), Packers, Vikings, and Browns. Michigan bases out of Cover 3 with a lot of sim pressure, but Colin notes he thought Macdonald was a Don Brown guy when Michigan hired him initially, considering often the Ravens were running Cover 1 with five-man pressures in 2020. The supposition is that Martindale likes to run Cover 1 until he can run Cover 0, and Macdonald/Minter really spread their wings when they got to Ann Arbor.

If you're just comparing their NFL defenses, yeah, Wink is a lot more blitzy (that was kind of the point of spending all that cap space on ninjas in the secondary). I don't know if you can compare the two, however. Michigan spends long chunks of its season in a base Cover 3 and leans into the weird stuff for Ohio State and maybe a Washington on top of it. NFL teams play other NFL teams 16 times before the postseason. It's a much different level of exposure, and affords you a slower installation. Being in the NFL for the last two decades probably means Martindale will be a downgrade from Minter in the strategic deployment of Michigan's Amoeba tricks, but I'm not convinced he runs a different system. That would defeat the point.

Can he recruit or is he just an NFL lifer?

Wink somehow never overlapped with Greg Mattison despite coaching at a lot of the same stops, but he's got a profile very similar to Matty's when he returned to college. That is, Martindale's got a college background but has been in the NFL since 2004. Originally from Dayton—Trotwood-Madison in fact—Wink was a truck driver(!) for a year after college then went back to his school (Defiance) to be the defensive coordinator in 1986. He was a linebackers assistant at Notre Dame under Bob Davie in the mid-'90s under Rick Minter before joining Minter's staff at Cincinnati. Jack Harbaugh then hired Martindale to be the defensive coordinator at WKU from 1999-2003.

Wink's NFL career started with the Raiders, and two years later he joined the Bronco's for Mike Nolan's second stint in Denver. Nolan only lasted a year under Josh McDaniels, who promoted Wink to defensive coordinator in 2010. McDaniels was gone before the season ended and Wink was out of there with him. After a season off, John Harbaugh hired his dad's old assistant to be the new linebackers coach because Dean Pees was being promoted to DC. Pees kept the position until 2017 when Martindale in turn replaced him.

One important note: Via Sam on our podcast yesterday, Wink's was a name who moves the needle for keeping Michigan's defensive stars. The chances that everybody makes it the start of the season just went up substantially.

Staying power?

This is probably a short-term rental—two or three years—since Wink's been a successful pro DC and didn't come back to the college ranks for 20 years once he got his NFL shot. I haven't gotten into what was going on with the Giants, but this seems like a marriage of great convenience. Wink's a 60-year-old coach whose career was stalling out, and Michigan spent the last three years running his stuff with two of his guys who quickly became coaching darlings. Sherrone Moore missed out on Orr, seemed to be losing Cullen to Macdonald, and spent the last two weeks losing battles over assistants with his former boss.

To Sherrone Moore, this is a feature, not a bug. Moore is one of those young guys that Harbaugh brought on. Harbaugh had a ton of experience, and had his dad around. Jesse Minter's dad was around too. Sherrone explicitly wanted a more experienced coach for his DC, which means he was never going to hire a hot up-and-comer in his 30s.

Martindale probably isn't going to do a lot of recruiting, and if he beats Ohio State again and an NFL team wants him he's probably gone. Those are the downsides. The upshot is Michigan gets to keep running the Amoeba—now under the guy who invented it—and gets to keep telling players with NFL dreams that they've come to the school where that happens.

Ideally, Martindale gets to coach a loaded defense for a couple of years, and when he 's ready to go back to the pros Clinkscale's spent all that time in Wink's back pocket and is ready to run it like a Raven.

Comments

BradP

February 9th, 2024 at 10:06 AM ^

On point 3:  When Michigan got shredded for 62, Brown had two 1st team all big ten corners in Hill and Long at corner with a RS Sr Watson (who would end up making it to an NFL active roster for a moment) as his third CB.  He had a soph 4.5* Ambry Thomas as his 4th CB.  His starting safeties were future NFL starter Josh Metellus and 5th year captain Tyree Kinnel.

 

There is an easy argument that the talent that got torched under Brown was every bit as good as what Martindale will have next year.

Seth

February 9th, 2024 at 10:31 AM ^

Neither Hill nor Long got torched; Watson and Devin Gil did. Are you trying to say that Wink Martindale is going to play cover 1 all day versus Ryan Day's offense? Is that the point you're trying to make?

I'm really trying to fathom where this insanity is coming from. Unless OSU goes back to a running QB and all of their receivers transfer we're not running the 2018 Don Brown gameplan against Ohio State again. Colin was arguing that Wink's defense will be more Fangio than Macdonald, which is at least an idea backed up by evidence. This idea that Wink = a return to Don Brown's defense is about the dumbest shit I've heard since the last time I was exposed to a Spartan on the internet.

los barcos

February 9th, 2024 at 11:13 AM ^

I'm really trying to fathom where this insanity is coming from.

 

You and me both.

 

It seems like the national championship actual broke the fanbase's brain. I've been on this blog many years, including some lean times, and I haven't seen this level of outrage and hot takes ever.

4th phase

February 9th, 2024 at 11:47 AM ^

putting aside the don brown stuff and focusing on the OSU part. I mean, are they going to go back to a running QB? Will Howard had ~ 7 attempts/game and had more rushing yards last year than all OSU QBs under Day combined. Then if Day is really going to stop calling plays and bring in someone like Chip Kelly, I could see them saying "lets be an Urban Meyer offense again"

BradP

February 9th, 2024 at 12:16 PM ^

Man, c'mon.  I was responding specifically to point 3.

To recap:

You:  Michigan will run more 0 and cover 1 this year and it will be fine because the problem when Brown ran it was personnel.

Me:  Brown had a defense full of draft picks including the best secondary in the conference, so the problem wasn't personnel.

You:  Where do these assholes get the idea that Michigan will be a cover 0 team?!

To clarify:

I never said what coverages Michigan would be running.  You said that they would be running more of those man coverages.  I am simply pointing out that Martindale doesn't actually have better personnel to run that than Brown.  Brandon Watson was actually a pretty solid player and DJ Waller or whoever Martindale tries to put in man coverage will be far worse.

And frankly, it sounds to me like you are saying "Martindale isn't going to run a base cover 1 defense, he is going to run a defense unlike what he has run for most of his career as a defensive coordinator."

That isn't exactly all that comforting.

 

 

Hensons Mobile…

February 9th, 2024 at 1:54 PM ^

I am simply pointing out that Martindale doesn't actually have better personnel to run that than Brown.

I think that's where the disagreement is coming from. I agree that CB2 looks like advantage 2018. Otherwise, nah. Wastson was good (generally) but whoever goes in that spot in 2024 probably won't be any worse.

We're also putting a lot on Stewart and Moore at DE to be Gary and Chase. They should be good, but I'd say it's still an open question. Doubt they'll be vastly superior.

Seth was also saying Gil got roasted and probably all our LBs will be better than Gil. But I think he might have been on the field when Bush got hurt? I don't know, I've erased 2018 from my memory mostly.

The big difference is DT. Grant and Graham vs., what was it even, Jeter and Kemp? (Edit: Oh, discussion below says it was Mone and Kemp.)

Anyway, I think Seth is saying we'll run more cover 0 than before, but still not use it at the primary defense against a passing OSU. Of course, OSU brought in Howard as QB and have two All American type RBs to share the ball so...maybe it will be the 2018 offense. Maybe Urban will be hired as OC.

BradP

February 9th, 2024 at 2:35 PM ^

Your non WJ choices for cornerback are DJ Waller, Jaden McBurrows, Jyaire Hill, and Myles Pollard.  Take the best one out of that list and compare him to a RSSr who was on an active NFL roster the next three years.

And there is roughly zero chance Moore and Stewart are better than Gary and Chase.  Chase was an All American and Gary was the 12th pick in the draft that year.  And their backups with Josh Uche and Kwity Paye.

I'd call pass rush and pass coverage a wash between the two teams.

stephenrjking

February 9th, 2024 at 4:26 PM ^

Brown could only run one kind of defense. Wink may have a preference for a certain kind of defense that superficially resembles some of what DB did, but that’s a long way from being the same defense that Brown ran. Brown’s problem is that he only had one good tool in the toolbox. He wasn’t an effective coach for the other stuff, and so when weaknesses were found he didn’t have good counters to them.

Wink will not have that problem. As an NFL caliber DC he has a full portfolio of concepts available, and he has players that are really good at winning them. When Don Brown called zone coverages against OSU in 2018 his players had no idea how to play it effectively; Martindale can call stuff he has barely repped all year and Rod Moore and Will Johnson will know exactly how to make it work.

The supposed echoes of Don Brown seem mostly imagined to me, like people comparing the offenses of Rich Rodriguez and Mike Leach because they’re both called “spread.”

M go Bru

February 10th, 2024 at 10:57 AM ^

Brandon Watson was a 4.6 40 corner and OSU ran crossing patterns with their fastest receivers (4.3) all day long. Game over. Don Brown had no counter.

I'd don't remember Gill per say (viper?). But the Brandon Watson mismatch was beyond obvious. 

That horror has been forever indelibly etched into my mind.

Drowning Man

February 9th, 2024 at 1:39 PM ^

Mone and Kemp are the issues there. Graham, Benny, and Grant are *light years* better than those dudes. This set of DTs can hold up in ways the 2018 team could not.

I share some of your concerns, but I don't think it's as easy as saying that "approach X didn't work before therefore it won't work now" since both OSU and M are different (in terms of personnel, offense, etc.) in 2024 than they were in 2018. 

BradP

February 9th, 2024 at 2:40 PM ^

All I'm saying is that I'm both 2018 and 2024, Michigan doesn't have the horses to put guys on an island against at least 3 of the teams they will face this year.

If Martindale tries to call this defense like he has his NFL defenses, it will probably go poorly.  If he can adopt the various zone strategies of his predecessor, the defense will probably be up to taking on any opponent this year.

G. Gulo of the Dale

February 9th, 2024 at 12:07 PM ^

Seth, I'm more likely to be the person who's confused here, but re: your "2." isn't the original Fulton tweet suggesting that Mac and Minter were more Fangio-like than Wink-like, not that Wink is more Fangio-like?--such that you're actually agreeing with Fulton.  Again, maybe I'm misreading, but I took the Fulton tweet that you quoted to imply the opposite of your interpretation in the OP:

That's what was always interesting to me in discussing the "Ravens tree" because Mac and Minter were not at all doing the same thing that Wink was doing. Was more Fangio-esque.

RockinLoud

February 9th, 2024 at 10:56 AM ^

Wink built his defense to stop the pass. Brown built his to stuff the run.

This is the key here. Brown's D was built to stop spread n' shred, it worked great for that. Wink's D was built to stop the spread passing offenses that were dominating the NFL, which Ryan Day brought to OSU, and which many college teams have now adopted. It just happens that UM got in ahead of the meta on D due to the Harbaugh family connection. 

 

WrestlingCoach

February 9th, 2024 at 11:17 AM ^

I was taught to seek out multiple sources, often from different and conflicting viewpoints, and then taught to use the information I've gathered to make my own somewhat educated decision. Sam is not gospel, but definitely a source i seek out along with other "known friends and trusted agents", lots more to go off of out there than just Sam Webb, but I do trust his gut 75% of the time.

Hensons Mobile…

February 9th, 2024 at 2:01 PM ^

we all know Sam is totally not a program stooge sometimes to the point of fabulism!

Actually I would say we do know that. I mean, a program stooge, okay, I get that. But to the point of being a fabulist? No. He won't be downright critical, that's true, so he will always give takes by talking about the upside. But he doesn't over promise things generally.

Blau

February 9th, 2024 at 12:29 PM ^

RE #1: I would at least change the words won’t recruit to can’t recruit or may recruit. Would Moore really hire a DC under the guise of “This position requires no ability to recruit high school or transfer portal athletes”? I don’t think so. Furthermore, Michigan’s defense and to a lesser point, the Raven’s defense, should produce enough data to suggest that his system can possibly recruit itself based on the results and the players who’ve gone on to the NFL that were coached by his own assistants at UM.

Recently it feels like everyone has said recruiting first year high school players is overrated due to the transfer portal and nobody seemed to bitch about Macdonald’s or Minter’s lack of recruiting efforts as they molded the team into granite from sand. While recruiting is the lifeblood of a program, we should be more interested in the on-field results rather than securing a commitment from a kid who can’t transfer out at the drop of a hat.

chalkeater

February 9th, 2024 at 7:57 PM ^

I think this hire can certainly work, and hearing that this "moved the needle" for the Michigan defensive room and that he lit a fire watching tape of the game against OSU is super reassuring. 

The thing that makes me queasy is the fight with Daboll last year. Blitzing repeatedly after your head coach calls for a conservative game plan since you have a first-time starter at QB - and doing so while getting 640 yards put up on you - scares the hell out of me. This is Coach Moore's team, he's proven capable to the task at every step - he took an o-line from middling to best in the NCAA, then he took a team many thought was doomed to huge victories over OSU and PSU. He's proven to be somebody who steps up to any challenge if you let him cook. 

I'm scared Wink won't let him cook. He wouldn't let Daboll cook, and Daboll was more proven than Moore.  

willirwin1778

February 9th, 2024 at 8:44 AM ^

I like it.  Nice work Coach Moore.  

Won a National Championship at Western Kentucky

Won a Super Bowl at Baltimore

His assistants Won a National Championship at Michigan

Lot's of success, but two years ago his really injured defense fell off, so neurotic people here get to go crazy.   

JFW

February 9th, 2024 at 9:47 AM ^

With most Michigan fans neurotic is what we do best. I saw people worrying and complaining *the day after* we won the national title. I mean, if you can't be happy then, when can you be happy? 

Michigan will be fine. I really like Moore. I really hope we can retain Hart. I think that the culture started to really shift with Poggi, Hart, Bellamy, and Moore, and that is the key to our success. I love guys like Grant Newsome. 

We do have to be realistic. We lost a ton of offensive talent and don't know what the future holds for kids. Strong chance we lose a few games next year between loss of talent and increase in the challenge of the schedule. But if we can hang on to what we have, and keep recruiting more to culture than necessarily talent, I think overall we have a bright future. I like this hire. 

 

jdemille9

February 9th, 2024 at 8:47 AM ^

Being in the NFL for the last two decades probably means Martindale will be a downgrade from Minter in the strategic deployment of Michigan's Amoeba tricks

Kinda felt like it was those strategic deployments that was why Michigan was so successful at shutting down NFL QB's like Stroud and Penix Jr. 

Ewers will be a challenge, whoever Oregon rolls out in that elite offense will be a challenge and despite OSU not having a named starter, whoever they roll out will be damn good and ready - OSU has already thrown all their money in the beat Michigan at all costs game. 

I am fine with this hire, but I do have some concerns that what has made us so successful the past three years on defense (and I firmly believe it was our defense that has driven our overall success) was not actually Wink's scheme but his proteges building off it and making it their own.

We'll be good on defense next year. And a top 10 defense is nothing to scoff at but when you're coming off a historically elite defense it's gonna feel like a bigger fall off than it actually is.