WTKA Roundtable 10/26/2023: Take a Breath
Things Discussed:
- MSU: Credit to the team.
- Signgate: SI article is interesting because it's the only one not part of Ohio State's orchestrated PR campaign.
- How much does it matter? Coaches say very little: give me run or pass.
- How much was Stalions working on his own? Probably all of it. Brian: Not hard to figure out where the money's coming from: Mom & Dad. He's the kind of guy who'd write a manifesto about how he's going to take over the Michigan.
- Problem is because the NCAA holds coaches accountable even if they didn't know. Hopefully Michigan has processes in place that show they were actively discouraging this behavior.
- Real scrutiny: their vetting process for low-level staffers needs to improve.
- Ryan Day: Only way I can get beat is if someone cheats, because I'm that brilliant.
- OSU-PSU: Drew Allar isn't that good and you can't put the game on him.
[Hit the JUMP for the player, and video and stuff]
You can catch the entire episode on Michigan Insider's podcast stream.
Segment 2 is here. You can watch the video here:
The Usual Links:
- Helpful iTunes subscribe link
- General podcast feed link
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Direct download link (right-click/save as)
- What's with the theme music?
This does not explain why you're bad at your job.
October 26th, 2023 at 10:27 AM ^
Definitely give this a listen if you are feeling down about all this. The guys do a great job as always!
October 26th, 2023 at 10:50 AM ^
I'm feeling great about all this! Imagine the euphoria when we beat OSU by 29 after a month of being told we only win because we were cheating.
October 26th, 2023 at 10:59 AM ^
Only 29? That is pure BPONE!
October 26th, 2023 at 11:11 AM ^
If we beat either Penn State or Ohio State without our "criminal mastermind" on the sidelines, I never wanna hear a word about cheating. There's no excuses for teams who lose to us from here on out
October 26th, 2023 at 3:15 PM ^
One of the pieces of evidence is that Michigan beats the point spread more often than they should. The word was out on this before the Sparty game.
What was the point spread again? What was the score again?
October 26th, 2023 at 11:17 AM ^
38. Calling my shot.
Harbaugh goes full Stanford vs Pete Carroll
UM by 24 @ PSU
UM by 38 over OSU
starters will be in against OSU until last 5 min of the 4th.
October 26th, 2023 at 11:40 AM ^
You spelled "last 5 seconds" wrong.
October 26th, 2023 at 12:52 PM ^
I got a laugh and +1ed ya, but I'd go the other way
If up by a ton, do the same thing you've been doing. Play your back-ups all the way through to your walk-ons. Empty the bench.
October 26th, 2023 at 1:33 PM ^
Sometimes I get sad about signgate and then I listen to/read Brian and I’m not sad anymore. MGoBlog, helluva drug
October 26th, 2023 at 10:28 AM ^
Thank you again for all that you provide.
October 26th, 2023 at 10:43 AM ^
IF––I say IF— the NCAA levies any kind of punishment on Michigan that materially harms the program and its players and/or directly results in Harbaugh no longer being head coach, the eager-beaver dipshit who thought he was conducting some sort of CIA-worthy special ops will instantly become the most reviled person in Ann Arbor, if he isn't already.
That doesn't excuse the people leading the program, up to and including Harbaugh, for not realizing this guy was a loose cannon with a bizarre and unhealthy fixation on Michigan football.
October 26th, 2023 at 10:59 AM ^
I wouldn't put him as the most-reviled person in town. We have individuals out there who have practically made their life's pursuit to be the defeat/downfall of Michigan sports (or more) and we also have people who are supposed to be friends/allies/alumni of the school actively sabotaging the programs.
I think that a guy who's enthusiasm for the program (and likely career self-interest) led him to break the rules (seemingly in a way that he thought was allowed via a loophole) is probably a bit more forgivable than the former two cases.
Situation still sucks, but this guy is not an enemy.
October 26th, 2023 at 11:28 AM ^
seemingly in a way that he thought was allowed via a loophole
This is why college compliance departments exist. If you find a loophole, the first thing you do is take it to your school's lawyers/compliance folks and say "can you vet this for us so it doesn't blow up in our face later?" This is clearly a grey area, so if you're not CYA'ing by getting legal to sign off on it first, that's on you.
October 26th, 2023 at 11:42 AM ^
Completely agree - I'm not defending how he went about his actions. I'm just saying he shouldn't be persona non grata after all is said and done.
October 26th, 2023 at 11:53 AM ^
I want to agree with this, but let’s be honest, he will the program’s Bartman.
October 26th, 2023 at 12:01 PM ^
That's basically the point I should have made, and Bartman is a perfect example.
I'm not suggesting that it's right to get in Stalion's face in the grocery store or harass him in any way, but the reality of human nature is that plenty of Michigan fans will affix blame to him, rightly or wrongly.
October 26th, 2023 at 8:42 PM ^
Not disagreeing with the process you advocate for here Homie, but I'm just wondering:
If sign stealing itself isn't against the rules, then why is how you do the thing that's not against the rules - against the rules?!
Stalions bought tickets in his own name apparently, no attempt at subterfuge. I'm maybe as confused about this whole thing as he seems to be 🤷♂️
October 26th, 2023 at 12:18 PM ^
Nah, he put his own personal gain as far as looking good to the coaches and thought zero about the ramifications of his actions and quite frankly made no decent attempt to even hide them. I have zero sympathy for the dude if UM gets hit hard because of this.
October 26th, 2023 at 11:04 AM ^
Good qualifications to join the Michigan Monday staff! And he does have free time.
October 26th, 2023 at 11:13 AM ^
I don't know if they are still Ann Arbor residents, but Jim Stapleton and Dave Brandon would like to have a word about your Most Reviled rankings.
October 26th, 2023 at 12:03 PM ^
Brandon was not a good AD, and his fanboyism ended up undermining Hoke (Hoke was probably never going to succeed, but forcing him to run an offense that he or his assistants had little experience with didn't help things). But at least Brandon told the NCAA to go fuck themselves over Stretchgate.
Contrast that with Stepleton, who joined the NCAA specifically so he could hammer his alma mater because he's butthurt...
October 26th, 2023 at 2:00 PM ^
I feel this like this is a bit of revisionist history. Do you recall Brandon self-imposed sanctions on Michigan because of stretch gate?
My recollection is that he did tell the local media (freep) to go F themselves over making a mountain out of a molehill. But I have no recollection of him publicly telling the NCAA to F off. The NCAA investigated stretch gate and found it to be a minor infraction and a minor punishment was given. I don't think there was much more to it other than what the Freep did.
October 26th, 2023 at 12:18 PM ^
The vast majority of Michigan fans have no idea who Jim Stapleton is, and Brandon has been in the rearview mirror for almost a decade.
October 26th, 2023 at 11:22 AM ^
An unhealthy fixation is easy to say in the retrospect, initially it could be seen as enthusiasm unknown to man kind. Dude was a huge fan, much like a lot of people on this very blog. Now if in his interview he was like "Hey, check out this 600 page manifesto" then yeah, probably should have avoided that guy.
October 26th, 2023 at 11:43 AM ^
Vetting new hires seems like a growth opportunity. We're not that far removed from the debacle with Bo's son.
October 26th, 2023 at 10:45 AM ^
Give 'em hell Brian!!!!
Go Blue!
October 26th, 2023 at 10:55 AM ^
A genuine thank you for being a visible outlet that is able to discuss this in a cogent manner and avoids the click-bait-nonsense.
What I want to see is an actual response from the U of M side of things that does exactly what was done on the roundtable today:
This is NOTHING. You (the NCAA) have NOTHING. We know this was orchestrated by Ohio State et al, and/or functional buckeyes (Stapleton) and you will be able to do absolutely nothing about it lest you wish to be obliterated in a legal fashion.
Watching OSU people try to rationalize two straight blow-outs over this has been absolutely fantastic at the very least. When their involvement comes out, the hilarity that ensues will be almost worth all of this.
Greatly appreciated Sam's response to Brian's point about an injunction - I found that tremendously comforting as well.
October 26th, 2023 at 11:57 AM ^
I mean they don’t have nothing. They have multiple pieces of corroborating evidence and it’s been like 9 days of the investigation being open
October 26th, 2023 at 12:22 PM ^
"corroborating evidence" of...what, exactly? Good job slapping a nefarious-sounding label on things that may very well end up being a pile of nothing.
October 26th, 2023 at 12:55 PM ^
Nope, they have nothing.
October 26th, 2023 at 11:58 AM ^
The thing about the drip drip drip of "bombshells" that now feel definitively coordinated is that we don't know Michigan's side of the story yet, because they can't comment.
Warde is a lot of negative things to this fanbase, but I'd be shocked if he'd go so far as to push Harbaugh out the door in the midst of potentially their best season ever as a football team (by not defending him and the university strongly against this ridiculous hit job).
If OSU opened up the investigation, where are their ramifications?
October 26th, 2023 at 10:48 AM ^
Did they address the language of the rules, i.e. that it seems like we didn't do anything illegal anyway?
October 26th, 2023 at 10:58 AM ^
One of the few coaches/players to go on record saying this a big deal is Bob Stoops. See below:
According to Bob:
"But to video people and to send people to scout and marry up a signal with the play ... No, no, no. That's terrible. It goes against everything we're about. That's wrong, if it happened."
But Bob's non-anonymous comments show why most coaches don't want to go on the record about this - because of course Bob Stoops has his own cheating scandal and therefore his words are rife with hypocrisy.
Oklahoma broke the rules in 2005 by having multiple players play while being paid. Their wins were first vacated, then reinstated on appeals. I'm sure Bob doesn't count these wins even if the NCAA does, because "it goes against everything we're about".
This is the problem with anyone complaining about "the rules" - pretty much every school has their own rule-breaking issues from the recent past or are currently breaking rules right now. Hence why almost no active coach will go on the record to condemn Michigan and will only do so anonymously.
October 26th, 2023 at 11:06 AM ^
So back when that Baylor assistant showed up on the sidelines in 2015 at a Tulse/oklahoma game. He was left sideline passes by Tusla for himself and his wife after being in the area for a wedding. Oklahoma recognized him (since he went to OU and was a student coach). Compliance asked him to leave, he called Baylor compliance because he didn't know about the in person rule, then left. Anyway, got a half game suspension a year later. But guess which coach kept going on about how much of a violation that was? Yep, Bob Stoops.
October 26th, 2023 at 11:45 AM ^
Let's not forget that Stoops, like Stewart Mandel, is an Ohioan by breeding. There might be something in the water down there.
October 26th, 2023 at 12:58 PM ^
lead paint
October 26th, 2023 at 11:10 AM ^
Am I missing something or does the post that explains the NCAA by laws in more detail, seem to show that what is being alleged is simply not a rules violation?
3rd party in person scouting is allowed. And the rule excluding the ability to tape is for people on the field and affiliated with the program.
As crazy as it is this seems like the reality. So even us talking about how they should have known what Stallions was doing, or how can you be so stupid to buy tickets, or speculation on how the NCAA may hold coaches accountable even though the didn't know. Isn't that all cart before the horse?
October 26th, 2023 at 11:20 AM ^
1. Maybe my head is in the sand, but nothing so far makes me believe Michigan was or is doing something really "wrong", i.e. some staffer may have crossed a line, and the NCAA will hand out some punishment that's (hopefully) not materially relevant. But nothing here makes me feel like any UM win and\or accomplishment is tainted.
2. It seems like the coaches and players are rightfully focused on the games and not this BS, so for me, the rest of this is just theatre that I'm somewhat enjoying. All of the hot takes, hypocrisy and grand-standing is undeniably funny, and I'm taking it all in.
3. Also, this guy has to be a user here, right? There is no way he is that big a fan, and has not heard of, if not a frequent commenter on the MgoBoard. So, Mr. Horsey, where are you? We know you didn't mean to do all of this, how are you doing? Laying low?
October 26th, 2023 at 11:37 AM ^
Point 3: I think someone already said this, but has to be GhostofJermaine... doesn't it? With all those sneaky codes he uses to dish out insider intel? I'm too lazy to figure out the last time he posted or look at the rest of his posting history.
October 26th, 2023 at 12:02 PM ^
I missed that post, but could definitely believe it.
October 26th, 2023 at 12:46 PM ^
Someone else said that GoJG posted something with his real name one time and it isn't him.
October 26th, 2023 at 1:38 PM ^
That was me who said that. GoJG posted some texts messages as an attachment to a board post awhile back. His name was on there with his photo. People ragged on him pretty hard about sharing his own name. It was not Stallions, it was a very bland common name.
October 26th, 2023 at 11:44 AM ^
It’s beautifully absurd really.
We have teams paying players for decades, on record, before it was legal with NIL.
We have evidence of OSU paying recruits for visits currently, which even under NIL, is illegal.
MSU steroids under Dantonio, pay to play sec, no school OSU.
We have 100mm dollar a year programs spending $$$$ on recruits, facilities, coaches, scouting, and yes, video.
And we are supposed to believe one Connor Scalions cracked OSU and and other billion dollar programs with a $15k a year operation and iPhones from the stands, lol.
If 3rd base can hire a PI firm and PR firm to crap on UM, he can also change signals- as we know they did last year.
Ryan Day is a scared, born on 3rd coward -aided by Stapleton and the corrupt NCAA
Just imagine how soft and entitled that fan base is when the idea that an unwell (manifesto writing) $55k a year employee (starting in 2022), broke your unhinged coach and football program with $15k and some interns.
That said, Brian is 100% right. Need better procedures to vet staffing hires.
October 26th, 2023 at 11:58 AM ^
He had a very obvious account here that died around 2014. He absolutely had to still be posting here after that under a different name
If I wanted to figure it out, I'd go looking for 'Favorite away games threads' on the board and go snooping through those users to see if anyone seems like him...
October 26th, 2023 at 11:42 AM ^
I listened to it live. Brian was definitely not worried about it. His take on Michigan going ths legal route if needed is very encouraging. I think it is Brian who said it is not UM and it is one guy right now. That needs to be emphasized.
If nothing comes out of this or very minimal, I sure hope those online writers have an apology ready.
October 26th, 2023 at 2:45 PM ^
Not to be that guy, but Brian also elucidated the path to Jimmy getting hit with a show cause. Brian's doubtful of this because it would be wholly unreasonable and the NCAA has been light on sanctions the last two decades. The latter is more encouraging than the former...
October 26th, 2023 at 11:53 AM ^
That was a good listen. I think Brian will be right. The next month or so is gonna suck while OSU's PR team leaks out random things and rival fans eat it up and fantasize about Michigan getting the super death penalty next week, but the long term reality is going to be that this is probably localized, Michigan gets some modest punishments, Ryan Day looks like a whiny baby for doing this, and we continue on.
October 26th, 2023 at 12:08 PM ^
I hope our coaches really emphasize all this shit behind the scenes and our players are out for blood against OSU...
October 26th, 2023 at 12:34 PM ^
Yeah I agree with him and Seth that it is unlikely that the firm broke laws to get information. Somehow that seems to be the leap a lot of people are going with.
October 26th, 2023 at 11:56 AM ^
I really, really hope that Brian is correct about all of this. I also hope that Warde doesn't think that he can make this all go away by being compliant. Never talk to the police without an attorney. It doesn't matter what it may look like, you never rely on the fairness of those questioning you. Michigan needs to "lawyer up" as they say on the crime shows. I'm sure Harbaugh knows this, and maybe the other coaches as well, but I am concerned that Warde is more about appearances than mounting a necessary defense.
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