Warde Manuel comments about Juwan Howard and Jim Harbaugh
These articles don't really give me much confidence. Reading between the lines, it sounds like Warde doesn't think that anything is "way off" in our basketball program. Additionally, he didn't even talk to Harbaugh himself in his contract negotiations so he doesn't know how he felt about everything. This seems a bit different from Hackett calling everyone he could possibly find with connections to Jim to get him to Ann Arbor in December 2014.
January 27th, 2024 at 8:36 PM ^
comments supporting Warde
Can you point these comments out to me? I've gone through the entire thread and haven't seen one of them.
Update: I'll take your downvote as a sign that you can't support your own comment.
January 27th, 2024 at 8:42 PM ^
Don't bother. These people can't be helped. If they think X is Warde's fault, and you don't think that X is actually Warde's fault, that means you support Warde, in their mind, because you are defending him on this one specific issue, not realizing that you can want Warde fired while thinking that Warde isn't personally responsible for a specific thing.
January 27th, 2024 at 9:02 PM ^
You can argue semantics all you want.
If you think Warde performance doesn't warrant a firing, then you're supporting him.
January 27th, 2024 at 9:09 PM ^
It's not a semantic argument. Your reading comprehension apparently just sucks.
January 27th, 2024 at 9:09 PM ^
There are people who do actively want him fired but "defend" certain things. There have been many comments over the past few weeks that start "I think Warde should be fired because of X but not because of Y."
Do those people support Warde? That's crazy talk.
I'll assume you're just talking about someone like me, who is more indifferent. Fire him, don't fire him, I don't feel strongly either way. I think firing him is reasonable. But since I'm not demanding it, that means I support him, in your view.
Well, that's not how I see it but at least now I understand you. I'd like to think you're capable of seeing how that was not obvious to me before, but whatever.
January 28th, 2024 at 8:34 AM ^
Warde’s performance warranting a firing has nothing to do with claiming Warde should be fired for X when X has nothing to do with Warde. The belief that if we’re going to talk about firing somebody, we should keep it to reasons that actually apply to him isn’t defending him.
You can look at the situation with fairness and be realistic and still come to the conclusion that it’s time for him to go. At this point you’re just looking for shit to pile on top of him.
January 27th, 2024 at 8:28 PM ^
Not blaming Warde for things we do not know for certain IS NOT the same as supporting Warde.
January 27th, 2024 at 9:10 PM ^
I'm not a Warde "supporter", I'm a Warde "grader". I think he's on shaky ground, but if the Sherrone transition turns out well--and Warde owns that--I think Warde survives. And I wouldn't be upset if Warde was fired tomorrow with prospects of a promising replacement.
Football: The program is in the best shape in decades, and Warde deserves some of the credit for not running Harbaugh off in 2020. However, Warde's sandbagging with the contract negotiations means he owns the transition. We have a promising but new coach, who would have been offered head coaching jobs elsewhere had he not ascended to head coach this year. Is that a good trade versus the best coach in college football but one who may well have been a short-timer even if he had stayed for 2024? Time will tell.
Basketball: Has fallen to horrible shape. Most of us liked the Howard hire at the time. (I did.) But it has failed. Not only on the court, but in anger management and representation off the court. With Michigan's resources, I expected Howard to at least have the team in bubble contention this year. Warde could have shown a quick trigger at the end of last year, but he didn't. I'll subtract small points for that. Warde has made the perfunctory statements of support during this season--I don't see anyone on the coaching bench that would be likely to spark a turnaround--but we'll see what he does after the season ends. The Manuel ship starts to take on some water if Howard is retained for 24/25. That would be a big bet on Warde's part that I'm guessing the risk-averse Manuel is not going to take.
Hockey: The Mel Pearson debacle is a big negative. Still, the team made the Frozen Four last year under Naurato. I'm not a big hockey fan, but this year isn't going great. Maybe the team can get hot, be on the right side of the bubble, and make some noise.
Baseball: He let Bakich walk without a counter-offer against the Clemson offer. Michigan being Michigan could have matched or bettered the Clemson offer, and baseball might still be a thing. Perhaps Bakich could have turned the program into a Carol Hutchins-like northern power that played a strong OOC slate to be nationally competitive. But he chose to be cheap. And to be honest, Baseball doesn't move the AD assessment needle much.
In the end, I think it all comes down to football. If Sherrone is successful, I think Warde will survive. If not, he will have ownership of some level of demise without much else to point to.
January 27th, 2024 at 10:17 PM ^
They're not defending Warde in general. They're defending: 1. Against the idea that there is a mysterious level of activity that was available to Warde that Warde chose not to engage, thus resulting in Harbaugh's departure; ie, any replacement level AD would have kept Harbaugh; 2. The general "I'm mad and I'm going to blame someone" evidence-free anger-lashing that is so common on message boards that takes every context-free piece of data and reinterprets it into a paradigm that is the product of the imagination of the poster designed to confirm their existing biases against someone.
There are a lot of people opining about how the athletic director should operate that have no idea what it's like to be an actual athletic director or work in the department, that willfully ignore copious levels of countervailing evidence regarding things like legal issues with immunity clauses and large financial guarantees that require more than a head nod from an AD that most think shouldn't be sitting in his seat in a couple of years when the bill comes due, who have VERY STRONG opinions about what should have happened and are utterly convinced that Jim Harbaugh was ready to stay if only Warde was just a bit more persistent.
I don't think that's true at all. The specifics of the negotiations were secondary; there was a large dollar amount and a clear understanding that the school wanted Harbaugh back and literally all he would have had to do is say "I will come back if you give this to me and I will not if you don't" and that would be that.
The fact is that the only actual evidence we have from the mouths of people involved is from Harbaugh, who said it was a hard decision and he decided it was time to go to the NFL. And we have plenty of evidence that he loved the NFL before, continued to love it during his time here, and wants to go back and win a Super Bowl.
It's not a defense of Warde that is pushing back. It's a defense of reason instead of scapegoating and anger.
January 27th, 2024 at 8:34 PM ^
Talking about interpretation. You have yours and other people have their own. You don't know me personally so you don't have a clue what I think. However I'll give you a hint; I usually remain positive about everything in life! Also without disappearing in character and not being myself I literally have never cared about another human beings job that I cannot personally affect!!! All of you Goblins and Mobile characters actually take yourselves way, way, way, too seriously.
January 27th, 2024 at 8:38 PM ^
Sorry I had your name in my mouth. But...I don't think you're disputing what I said. Well, except that you're calling me out on my exaggeration. That's just my interpretation, anyway.
January 27th, 2024 at 8:15 PM ^
I can't, for the life of me, understand what he has done to be blamed for the departure for our ex-NFL coach who has been open about his goal of winning a Super Bowl, especially when that coach left only after accomplishing everything he set out to accomplish at Michigan.
January 27th, 2024 at 8:24 PM ^
Then clearly you're not playing attention
January 27th, 2024 at 7:20 PM ^
So he's admitting to not even trying to do his job and he somehow still has one? Does he have blackmail on the university or something?
January 27th, 2024 at 7:32 PM ^
Likely sitting in a booth versus on a boat during negotiations.
January 27th, 2024 at 7:21 PM ^
If Thad is a'posting, Warde is a'toasting.
January 27th, 2024 at 7:23 PM ^
The sports program without people like Beilein and Harbaugh will sink if this guy is the leader. Say nothing or at least not sound so idiotic. They should do all the basic things to win since they don’t but I’m not evaluating the team. That’s for the end of the year. Idiot.
January 27th, 2024 at 7:28 PM ^
I am ok with waiting until March to fire Juwan. It doesn't really matter if he is gone now or at the end of the season at this point. Doubling down and rearranging deck chairs with assistant coaches and bringing Juwan back next year would be like the Michigan basketball equivalent of keeping Brian Ferentz around and expecting different results.
January 27th, 2024 at 7:56 PM ^
Yeah I don’t see what firing Juwan now would do, it’s not like we have a capable replacement to finish out the year. And since that’s the case, Warde also isn’t going to say anything negative about Juwan or the basketball program until he does make that move. This is the AD version of coach-speak
January 27th, 2024 at 8:05 PM ^
Fire him now and start the process of putting out feelers across the sport for the next coach for the remainder of the season.
January 27th, 2024 at 10:42 PM ^
Midseason firings are rare and generally don't do any good in college, and Michigan in particular does not do that sort of thing.
I'm honestly not convinced Warde fires Juwan; renegotiate-and-retool with someone with a good pedigree worked with Harbaugh, and even though I'm not confident it could work (particularly in such a short time) with Juwan and though the program seems worse than how we actually know football was doing in 2020 (rather than how we felt it was doing) if you have a strategic principle you hold to that worked that well in 2020 you may well try to run it back again.
The problem with identifying the differences is that it's hard to tell what's different and what just feels different. When I called for Harbaugh's firing a big plank of my argument** was that he had completely lost the team and the program was collapsing.
Well, has Juwan lost the team/team culture, with the program collapsing?
Michigan might double down with Juwan because it worked with Jim, with so many other parallels between the two. The risk that such a strategy won't work twice is high; but then, the risk of failure is lower due to the lower status of basketball at Michigan. But don't tell that to the core fanbase of the sport.
**My best-known critique of Harbaugh was posted in the 2020 PSU game thread, but my most embarrassing takes were in the thread after the Wisconsin game, which was indeed the nadir of the Harbaugh era. In that thread I accurately listed a whole host of caveats about COVID and major injuries and serious personnel losses at key positions and the general disruption of a madness year... and just hand-waved all those issues away because the team (legtimately) quit in the Wisconsin game. It got worse: I accurately stated that Michigan doesn't fire coaches midseason and that won't change and nodded toward the fact that it's not really effective... and then in a turn for the stupid that I consider, by my personal standards, to have been utterly unhinged, I suggested that Michigan may as well do it anyway. And the reason was to see if a guy on staff that I thought had perhaps a 20% chance of actually being a legit option as a successor might work out. Yes, the man that I suggested Michigan hand the reins to midseason on that bleak late fall night in 2020 was *Josh Gattis*.
Remember, on message boards any one of us is capable, with only the happenstance of one bad afternoon, of posting opinions that are absolutely ludicrous.
January 28th, 2024 at 8:24 AM ^
Michigan might double down with Juwan because it worked with Jim, with so many other parallels between the two.
What parallels?
- Jim's had extensive prior HC experience and Juwan's had none
- Jim took over 5-7 Hoke team whereas Juwan inherited Beilein's Sweet16 team
- Prior to 2-4 '20 Covid season, Jim's had one bad season (8-5 '17) and Juwan's been progressively worse since leading to the Elite8 in '20-21' season (19-15 '21-22, 18-16 '22-23. and 7-13 thus far this season).
- Jim's been a proven winner as HC at every destination and Michigan's Juwan first HC position
To draw parallels between the two and their situations would be inaccurate. Juwan was a popular hire but unproven with risk. Jim deserves a much longer leash due to his track record. And Juwan has no track record to fall back on. Extending Juwan in an attempt to follow and replicate Jim's roadmap to success would be foolish. That said, it wouldn't surprise me a bit, if this were Warde's thought process and simply kept Juwan next season. He enjoys doing nothing.
January 27th, 2024 at 8:06 PM ^
Warde isn’t going to fire Juwan. His favorite action is inaction. This is the 2nd failure of a basketball coach he’s hired, both happened to be alums of the school with no head coaching experience. Just lazy.
i don’t blame him for losing Harbaugh since I think Harbaugh was gone regardless but it’s clear he didn’t do everything he could to keep Jim, which is inexcusable.
January 27th, 2024 at 8:15 PM ^
This is the 2nd failure of a basketball coach he’s hired
The second?
January 27th, 2024 at 9:18 PM ^
He hired Kevin Ollie at UCONN
January 27th, 2024 at 9:40 PM ^
Ah, thank you. Well, he did win a national championship at least. Kinda went downhill after that. Sounds familiar...but we only got the Elite Eight.
January 27th, 2024 at 7:23 PM ^
Anyone supporting Warde is genuinely retarded. How can an AD even justify not talking to your NC winning coach about his contract negotiations?
"Are we in the ballpark?"
"How do you feel?"
"What is important to you?"
"What do you want and need?"
"Are you leaning towards the NFL no matter what we offer?"
None of it. Just an asshole who mystifyingly still has a job..
January 27th, 2024 at 7:26 PM ^
Use a better word choice, it’s 2024 and none of us are in middle school anymore
January 27th, 2024 at 7:47 PM ^
Jim probably blocked Warde's number, told Michigan to not talk to him and only talk to his agent and lawyer. Something like that would be my guess.
January 27th, 2024 at 7:55 PM ^
Whatever the reason, none of them point to a good relationship between the AD and his best coach.
January 27th, 2024 at 8:04 PM ^
Manuel characterized the contract negotiations as positive and in good faith, even as he and Michigan operated primarily with Harbaugh’s agent and lawyers — and not the coach himself — during much of it.
It doesn't say Warde literally never talked to Jim. It doesn't say Jim's BFF Santa talked to him every day. The implication, though, is Jim basically was distant and let his reps do all the negotiating, which seems like a totally normal thing.
January 27th, 2024 at 7:24 PM ^
If he isn't firing Howard in season, what comments do you honestly expect?
January 27th, 2024 at 7:32 PM ^
Being in last place is "way off".
January 27th, 2024 at 7:34 PM ^
Per usual, this is Warde's way of convincing himself he needs to do nothing:
"Juwan's just fine. If Jim can turn things around after 2-4 season, so can Juwan. Now, where's my delivery from Blimpy Burger?"
January 27th, 2024 at 7:40 PM ^
It’s actually helpful for me to hear straight from the horse’s mouth that Juwan is getting a pass this season because of the heart issue. Doesn’t make it right, but at least I know.
January 27th, 2024 at 8:55 PM ^
Juwan has had a pass for two straight years, and this year will be three.
January 27th, 2024 at 7:45 PM ^
“Additionally, he didn't even talk to Harbaugh himself in his contract negotiations so he doesn't know how he felt about everything.”
If this is an accurate picture of the situation, that’s grounds enough for firing. How the fuck an athletic director isn’t in close communication with his single most important employee during an absolutely critical time is mind-boggling. It’s criminal managerial bungling.
January 27th, 2024 at 7:51 PM ^
Based on everything we’ve heard thus far, I think it’s abundantly clear that Warde was NOT sad to see Harbaugh walk. So why would he do anything above the bare minimum to keep him? Yes, Harbaugh wanted to go back to the NFL. But we’ll never know if even a modicum of effort could’ve retained our first national title winning coach since 1997.
Warde can fuck right off at this point.
January 27th, 2024 at 8:12 PM ^
But from what I’ve read, Warde did everything he could to retain Jim, but Jim’s desire to win a Super Bowl was so great that his departure was inevitable!
/s
January 27th, 2024 at 9:42 PM ^
That's not clear at all. It's just something people imagine because they want to believe it.
Frankly, even if Warde personally disliked dealing with Harbaugh, that doesn't mean he wants him gone. Harbaugh is, among other things, terrific for the bottom line, which is a huge part of what his job is. It's *really easy* for Warde to do a lot of what he needs to do as AD because Harbaugh won, and that goes right down to managing the basketball program, which is in serious trouble and would cause a massive uproar if this weren't already basically the best athletic department season ever because of the success of one sport.
Adults can find coworkers and superiors and subordinates personally challenging, even dislikeable to deal with, and still want them around because they recognize their ability and value. People in management in particular can recognize that.
I suspect Warde did as well, even if he felt personally ruffled by Harbaugh.
January 27th, 2024 at 7:45 PM ^
I'm sure OP wanted Harbaugh fired in 2020.
January 27th, 2024 at 9:00 PM ^
There is nothing wrong with fans wanting Harbaugh fired after 2020. Going 2-4, and albeit not playing OSU that year, he was 0-5 against them at that point, and 3-3 versus MSU. It is easy for everyone to point out it would have been wrong to fire him now, but then there was good reason to want it.
January 28th, 2024 at 8:58 AM ^
There was also a mountain of evidence from Harbaugh's previous coaching stops suggesting that he would be successful at Michigan. There were no replacement candidates even in the same universe as him as a coach. It was never a good idea to want him fired. It was impatience and feelingsball.
January 27th, 2024 at 7:46 PM ^
I don't know. I'm not here to defend Warde, but I think the "he didn't even talk to Harbaugh himself in his contract negotiations" is a bit overblown. The negotiations were all handled through Harbaugh's attorney and agent. And Harbaugh has such a one-track mind on coaching that I'll bet he didn't even want to spend time thinking about it during the season.
There are plenty of reasons to criticize him, this just doesn't seem like one of them.
January 27th, 2024 at 7:57 PM ^
He has plenty of time to talk to him after the season. They were in a parade together. His speech at the arena sealed it; he was waving face for not trying to do a thing to keep JH. Platitudes was all he gave.
January 27th, 2024 at 8:03 PM ^
Sure. But if your agents/lawyers are negotiating on your behalf, it's not usually a good idea to talk to the other party without them present.
LIke I said, there are plenty of reasons to be critical of him. Not talking to him about the contract negotiations doesn't seem to be one of them.
January 27th, 2024 at 7:46 PM ^
The truth is that the average Mgoblog community member is probably following the football and basketball programs more closely than Warde himself.
January 27th, 2024 at 7:49 PM ^
I’m astonished how this university stands for this type of “leadership” in the AD. I think Santa has been wonderful but how can he stand for this. He’s f’d up the Belien debacle, Harbaugh negotiations and Pearson didn’t go very well. What has he done successfully? This should be one of the top AD jobs in the country and this is the best we can do?
January 27th, 2024 at 7:53 PM ^
I'm going to get accused--again--of defending Warde, even though I don't care if Warde is fired. I've seen reasonable cases for why he should be fired and I never argue against those.
But here's what we have in these articles.
On Juwan, he said he will evaluate him at the end of the season. That's what you say when you are going to fire a coach at the end of the season. Not saying Warde will do that, but that is not a good comment if you're Juwan.
On Harbaugh, he said no one from Michigan talked to Jim and that all negotiations went through Jim's agent and lawyers. My assumption is that happened because Jim wanted it done that way. Warde didn't blame Jim in his quotes for making himself unavailable, obviously.
So there's nothing here that seems bad, unless you want Warde to have harassed Jim against his wishes and also want Warde to fire Juwan yesterday, which, sorry, is not happening and also doesn't accomplish much in January.
January 27th, 2024 at 7:57 PM ^
Lol. Hot off da presses!!! Fricken Warde alarm goes off inside his house like an ADT, commercial!!! Congratuf@&ulations you posted again!!!