WagerTalk.com Talks Michigan vs Penn St, One Of Them Says The QB, Not Jim Harbaugh, Is The Problem
Two gambling guru's talk about the game.
➡ They like Michigan's defense.
➡ Maybe the point spread is too high.
➡ And one gives his case why Michigan is looking bad on offense.
4:33 video:
October 17th, 2019 at 6:59 PM ^
In '16 Speight looked really good until he got hurt late in the year against Iowa. He was never the same after that.
October 18th, 2019 at 1:29 AM ^
Speight had a damn good year in 2016. His worst game was the OSU game and he was injured. He had 18 TDs, 7 interceptions, 2,500 yards and a 61.6% completion rate. 139 QB rating. That’s pretty solid, really.
October 17th, 2019 at 6:16 PM ^
Look at Shea's mechanics and throwing motion this vs last. This year he's almost exclusively 3/4 to full sidearm on most releases and I don't remember him doing that much last year at all.
October 17th, 2019 at 6:18 PM ^
That was very noticeable last week. He also does not seem to have as much zip on the ball. (That completion to DPJ on the 20 was almost picked off because it took forever to get there).
October 17th, 2019 at 10:52 PM ^
That throw was late as hell man...
He has issues, not just with his health, but with his reads and his timing. It's hard to believe he's the best option at QB, and yet here we are.
October 17th, 2019 at 6:27 PM ^
That, to me, points to his oblique injury being a persistent problem. His throw being almost exclusively 3/4 sidearm when last year it wasn't makes me believe he is having significant trouble actually raising his arm to its correct position.
October 17th, 2019 at 6:32 PM ^
Assuming its still an injury issue, does anyone have any idea how long his injury typically lasts?
October 18th, 2019 at 1:38 AM ^
If it's an oblique strain, it sounds like the recovery time varies widely depending on the severity. Here's a link to an MLB site that breaks things down a bit more.
October 18th, 2019 at 8:54 AM ^
For those who don't want to click: "While some mild oblique strains can be resolved in just a few days, severe strains can require surgery with a recovery time of 3-4 months."
October 17th, 2019 at 6:27 PM ^
He is throwing off his back foot more than Denard did and that’s pretty hard to accomplish
October 18th, 2019 at 8:03 AM ^
I noticed this as well; Patterson is playing hurt. The pain is visible on his face even when he completes a pass. Hard to see it getting better without weeks of rest. So, I guess the coaching staff feels a limited Patterson is better than other options.
October 18th, 2019 at 8:55 AM ^
If true that is sad that we don't have a prepared stable.
October 17th, 2019 at 6:18 PM ^
Yea. What’s it going to be this weekend guys?
Turn over a new leaf and beat a good team on the road in a hostile environment?
or
Get blown out on the road the second we get punched in the face?
Hate to say it but we are what we are until proven otherwise.
These guys sound pretty spot on. Avoiding teams with our “profile”. QB play has sucked. Hell, they didn’t even mention turnovers...
Hope I’m wrong !!
October 17th, 2019 at 11:38 PM ^
I had rational thoughts about their discussion but every time they put the camera on her I lost my focus and forgot what I wanted to type here.
October 17th, 2019 at 6:24 PM ^
October 17th, 2019 at 7:44 PM ^
I truly am hoping that Michigan not only beats PSU, they stomp on them.
You know there’s another phrase to say the same thing but I can’t quite place it...
October 17th, 2019 at 8:30 PM ^
If M wins out until Ohio, they they are beating Ohio as well. That's what I think, anyway.
October 18th, 2019 at 1:05 AM ^
IF Michigan trounces PSU and goes 10-1 then the conversation regarding OSU should be Michigan has a great chance to win. I have a lot of doubt of being 10-1 going into that game but a large part of me believes that we have seen far from this team's best.
October 17th, 2019 at 6:32 PM ^
Who recruited said QB, who is coaching said QB, and who refuses to bench said QB?
October 17th, 2019 at 6:42 PM ^
Wonder what would happen if DM or Milton came out and lost a game.
Perhaps he's refusing to bench said QB for a reason. He has 1000x more information about the QB room than any of us do.
October 17th, 2019 at 7:27 PM ^
Nah, man, UMxWolverines is mad and he needs that anger to be validated.
October 17th, 2019 at 6:35 PM ^
Harbaugh is absolutely the problem. He's in charge of recruiting and development. So if shea isnt getting it done then put the next guy in. But the reality is, shea is the best qb.
October 17th, 2019 at 7:20 PM ^
I’ve been pleading for them to play Dylan lately not because I think he’s better than Shea, but for the reason you just mentioned...development. He’s going to be QB1 next year and we start with a trip to Washington. I think it’s time to start his development in real games. I wouldn’t start him this week, but last week would have been perfect. We might take a loss we wouldn’t with Shea, but it will pay dividends next year. Also there’s a possibility that plays as well as Shea and jump starts the offense. Had we beaten Wisconsin or was at least competitive, I would probably feel different but this is not a playoff or Big Ten contender with Shea. I wouldn’t mind being proven wrong though.
October 17th, 2019 at 10:26 PM ^
Given Harbaugh's recent M.O., I think there's a non-trivial chance that the starting QB next year will be a transfer. And there's not necessarily anything wrong than that; just see Oklahoma's success with transfer QBs.
October 17th, 2019 at 7:30 PM ^
It's Rudock. R-U-D-O-C-K.
If you're gonna praise the guy at the very least get his name right.
October 17th, 2019 at 7:44 PM ^
If we lose 5 games this year and the offense makes no progress all season what's the benefit of keeping Harbaugh? What's he going to sell any recruit on?
The issues with this team go deeper than just offensive struggles. They take bad penalties, timeouts are continuously used poorly, and they just look totally unorganized. I'm afraid we're only seeing the tip of the iceberg as we're about to enter the tough part of the schedule.
October 18th, 2019 at 8:23 AM ^
How do you know that? We saw what happened when we kept Brady Hoke for another year. It's year fucking five for Harbaugh, either produce or go. I don't care about how he recruits, just like I didn't care about how Hoke recruited, I want to see results on the field. And if the results on the field suck for the rest of this year, how good do you think that recruiting class for next year is gonna look?
October 18th, 2019 at 1:15 AM ^
JH's first game against Utah in 2015 I remember watching a team that looked poised, confident and fundamentally sound compared to the previous 7 seasons. Even though we lost I thought for sure within a year or two we would be firmly embedded as elite. I try to classify this current program as derailed but feel deranged saying it. I have no idea how to explain the meh results but I know we have all the tools, talent, experience and know how within this program, right now, to be elite. Just gotta crack the code. I believe we are really close to breaking this thing wide open and taking the next step. It's a frustrating position.
October 17th, 2019 at 6:41 PM ^
Jim Harbaugh is the HC
October 17th, 2019 at 6:47 PM ^
Our offensive system is the problem and that's on Harbaugh. There is a reason Oklahoma can plug in a new guy every year and they are Heisman caliber, Spurrier did that back in the day, Leach does it, urban did it. We don't have a system.
October 17th, 2019 at 6:48 PM ^
If shea is the issue then Harbaugh is the issue. It’s year 5 and he still can’t field a competent QB means he is not a very good coach. This argument is absurd
October 17th, 2019 at 6:51 PM ^
Minty
October 17th, 2019 at 7:05 PM ^
Fresh
October 17th, 2019 at 7:43 PM ^
Double your pleasure
October 17th, 2019 at 6:52 PM ^
Of course Shea is the problem. Harbaugh should still be held accountable for not benching Shea
Shea is bad. His fumble on the first drive of the season really set the tone for his play the rest of the season. Weak arm, bad accuracy, bad reads. I can only imagine how bad his numbers would be if he wasn't throwing to NFL caliber WRs
October 17th, 2019 at 6:52 PM ^
Fans: “Fuck Shea. Put in McCaffrey”
Harbaugh: *puts in McCaffrey*
McCaffrey: *gets hurt*
Fans: “Harbaugh sucks”
October 17th, 2019 at 7:20 PM ^
Fans: "Fuck the pro style. We need a spread offense."
Harbaugh: *changes to spread offense*
Offense: *sucks way worse than last year*
Fans: "Harbaugh sucks"
October 17th, 2019 at 7:47 PM ^
Nobody forced Harbaugh to hire Gattis to run his offense
October 17th, 2019 at 8:11 PM ^
Agreed. I hate that we forced JH to install a crappy offense.
Can we make him install a good offense now?
Can we make him install a defense that doesn't give up 62 to TUOS?
Problem solved. Why didn't we think of this sooner?
October 17th, 2019 at 7:06 PM ^
When McCaffrey came in against Wisconsin the offense moved down the field.
He wasn't cleared to play until last Saturday and he may have only gotten in a couple of practices.
I'm not surprised he didn't play last Saturday. Now, had we come out in the 3rd quarter and scored a couple of times and had limited Illinois on O I think DM would have gotten a couple of series, at least.
I think it's very possible we'll see DM for at least a series or two if he has a good week in practice.
October 17th, 2019 at 10:30 PM ^
McCaffrey vs. Wisconsin:
Passing: 3/8 for 40 yards.
Rushing: 3 for 21 yards.
I mean, his performance isn't a reason NOT to give him a try, but it's also not a reason to claim that he's necessarily better than Patterson. It's sort of what you would expect from any 2nd string QB, really.
October 17th, 2019 at 7:18 PM ^
So, according to this board, if we get rid of the head coach, the offensive coordinator, and the starting quarterback our problems are solved? Nice.
October 17th, 2019 at 7:23 PM ^
It's both. If its Shea and the staff isn't making a change than they are part of the problem.
October 17th, 2019 at 7:35 PM ^
I wonder what odds they give on water being wet or not.
October 17th, 2019 at 7:41 PM ^
Operationally UM's Shea Patterson is pretty much IA Nate Stanley right now, or a ILL Brandon Peters before he got injured.
https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/stats/individual/?sortStatId=QB_RATING&s…
October 17th, 2019 at 7:48 PM ^
Take the points.
October 17th, 2019 at 7:52 PM ^
If the QB is the problem then injury prone DM isn't the answer because he's made of glass. Who is next then Milton? He has great talent but he's green. This season rises or falls on Shea. Like it or not.
October 17th, 2019 at 8:10 PM ^
Because I’ve never played competitive football (other than during my high school days over 50 years ago, playing the football with corner kicks, strikers, goalkeepers and yellow cards), I have no idea what offensive schemes would help maximize Shea Patterson’s skills. Whatever those schemes might be, I have to wonder how much experimenting the coaches have been doing during practices to determine what type of offense would be effective.
I don’t know whether Michigan would be better off with Patterson or Joe Milton running the old wishbone offense, or with Dylan McCaffrey running the old run-and-shoot offense, or with Michael Barrett running the really old single wing offense.
If (a) Shea Patterson isn’t a very good quarterback whether due to injury, skills regression or poor coaching or a combination of them, BUT (b) he’s the best quarterback available for Michigan at this point in what has been an uninspiring season, despite the 5-1 record, then shouldn’t it be upon the coaches to devise an offense that takes advantages of whatever limited skills Shea Patterson has? Whatever “speed in space” is supposed to be, watching only from the angles shown on TV broadcasts, this Michigan offense too often looks more like “lost in space”.
I note that Patterson is sixth in both passing average and passing efficiency and seventh in total offense among Big Ten quarterbacks. LINK Among FBS quarterbacks, he’s 26th in passing yards per completion, 66th in passing yards per game and 69th in passing efficiency. It’s fair to consider him an average Big Ten/FBS quarterback this season. He ought to be serviceable in a well-planned offense.
For those who’ve coached competitive football at least at the high school level and have been following this Michigan team closely, considering the skills of each of Michigan’s top three QBs what type of offense would you suggest as the best option for Michigan for the rest of this season?
October 17th, 2019 at 8:15 PM ^
Seems the starts are much the same, here's hoping Shea closes like this:
October 17th, 2019 at 8:19 PM ^
Who the hell are these people?