UT football players allege school and donors coerced (them) into staying for “The Eyes of Texas”
This is pretty rough
https://www.texastribune.org/2021/03/03/ut-austin-eyes-of-texas-donors/
[Edit @ 8:10 pm] I would prefer to allow this thread to remain open. Let's everyone help to keep this thread alive by discussing thoughts, insight, and ideas rather than attacking others who are partaking in the discussion. Thank you all.
-rob f
(PS: I also edited the title, per the OP's request)
Isn’t that the whole idea behind cancel culture? Economically disadvantage people and companies until you get the changes you want to see.
Getting the changes you want, while erasing any remnant of what offended you in the first place. Exactly like casting off to hell (we’re already here btw) anyone that doesn’t agree with your beliefs.
The Amazon logo is not a person
So cancelling is exclusive to people?
Not say:
- Works of art;
- Thoughts;
- Property;
- History?
Gotcha!
This is yet another instance of people confusing "cancel culture",
The hilarious thing about this post is you're saying cancel culture is not a thing but then go on to justify it. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
If someone thought that the Amazon logo looks like Hitler, they are a fucking moron and should be sterilized so they cannot shit in the gene pool.
Funny, isn't it? Now I can't un-see it, even with the new logo. Not that I think a reasonable person could possibly have thought that was Amazon's intent in the first place. Crazy times we live in.
I find it surprising how many folks actually care what the Amazon app logo looks like
I don't think anyone thought the new Amazon icon is "racist." Rather, some people made the Hitler connection (fully understanding that it was unintentional), other people started pointing it out, and the company understandably didn't want a Hitler connection -- however unintentional or subtle -- to be associated with its corporate branding. If you're Amazon, it makes perfect sense to tweak that connection away, even absent any "political correctness," "cancel culture," or any other political issue.
Give the woke some time. You can’t manufacture a link to racism and nazis for every tradition, all at once. They are making amazing progress, however, as Dr. Seuss can tell you.
+150 this thread blows up.
Just looked up the lyrics. Fucking creepy. If I was a UT student I wouldn’t want that as the school fight song
It’s not really the lyrics they’re opposed to. It used to be a song that was popular in minstrel shows and that racist background is why they want it gone.
Well, the lyrics are also definitely on the creepy side:
The Eyes of Texas are upon you,
All the livelong day.
The Eyes of Texas are upon you,
You cannot get away.
Do not think you can escape them
At night or early in the morn --
The Eyes of Texas are upon you
Til Gabriel blows his horn
And the players are forced to sing this? "Cannot get away," indeed.
When I was a student at university of Oklahoma, we had other words for that song. Only slightly more offensive than those lyrics.
I know. Just saying the lyrics are a bit embarrassing
It used to be a song that was popular in minstrel shows and that racist background is why they want it gone.
Is it?
The history of this tune goes all the way back to 1894 from Irish and Black people singing while building railroads.
So is it truly offensive or are a group of people selectively using parts of history while ignoring other parts of history to try and make their point?
I'm no historian, but if Irish and Black laborers were singing this song while doing difficult manual labor, then it makes the lyrics even more frightening.
And while one could argue that they were free men in 1894, I'm guessing the job prospects for Black people in the post Civil War era were not very rosy and they probably took what they could get and were probably taken advantage of to some degree.
Heading out west and working for the railroad was probably better than sharecropping in the South after the war. Seems like a chance to build a life and future.
then it makes the lyrics even more frightening.
THAT'S NOT WHAT I POSTED AT ALL!
I said the "tune". Not the fucking lyrics. Learn to read.
Train workers were NOT fucking singing "the eyes upon" anything.
The whole freaking basis for the outrage is the tune. They are associating the tune with minstrels. The TUNE ITSELF existed before the minstrel. <-- that last sentence is my point.
I don’t know if the music is offensive or not but I can’t imagine singing these lyrics (see my post above).
A song about escape being impossible, day or night, because “the eyes are on you” ... hmmm, I can take a guess what that’s referring to.
I honestly don't know what you're alluding to, snarling wolverine, as to what you can guess the words are referring to. The lyrics were written in 1903 and at the time the entire student body of UT would've been white. I don't like the lyrics myself and if the school chucks them overboard fine but they're sung to the student and are supposed to convey that the State of Texas is watching the student and is expecting them to go out and achieve great things. The issue at hand isn't the lyrics themselves but that the song had been previously been employed in manners that are deemed possibly racist.
Yes, it is racist. And pray tell exactly what "parts of history" are being "ignored" in this case?
A response (worthwhile) you will not get.
A response (worthwhile) you will not get.
Why do you ASSume that?
I'm not disagreeing about the lyrics.
I NEVER mentioned the lyrics.
I mentioned the tune.
The history being ignored is the tune existed before it was turned into a minstrel.
You are ignoring history to make your point. "I've been working on the railroad" and "Eyes of Texas" share the same melody but are not the same song. "I've been working on the railroad" dates to earlier than 1894, with some stanzas deriving from songs from the 1840s. It was derived as a medley from other songs some of which had racial stanzas.
"Eyes of Texas" was an independent song used in minstrel shows. While the melody was derivative the lyrics and song were not. If it was written and sung at minstrel shows it's hard to justify using it today (or ever).
When was the last minstrel show?
When was the last minstrel show?
Here's Bing Crosby singing in blackface in 1942. You can count on there being blackface shows after, but this one leapt to mind with White Christmas being in the film and so on.
I'd sit for "Victory for MSU"
Can’t be good for recruiting.
The underrated big winner here should be Jimbo Fisher and Texas A&M.
Meh, I don't care what race you are, you don't bite the hand that feeds you. Unless you get your money from the government as a hand out or are wealthy, you're going to have to make your money giving other people what they want. Life lesson. If it sucks, move on.
For anyone downvoting, I'm not defending racism, but you have to deal with the reality that certain people that may affect your life are that way.
So the proper response to racism is to just bend over and take it?
This is called "defending racism."
No, you do what I said and move on. Find somewhere else to work/live whatever. You aren't going to make a racist not racist by arguing or fighting with them. I literally don't have any further contact with half my family because of that.
And screw you for suggesting that I would defend racism by putting words in my mouth.
You aren't going to make a racist not racist by arguing or fighting with them
I disagree strongly. At the very least, a good public shaming can adjust behavior.
Furthermore, you seem to be suggesting that the players coerced by donors are the troublemakers who need to "deal with it and move on" rather than agreeing that said players should absolutely not be forced to participate. Bit of a red flag.
When have you ever seen someone argue with a racist and the racist ended up admitting their wrong and changing their ways?
And public shaming doesn’t really change behaviors. Just because they come out and make an apology statement doesn’t mean anything, typically they’re not sorry for the wrongdoing, they’re sorry they got caught doing it...
Doesn’t make any of it right
Yes it does.
This is a major PR problem for Texas. You can't automatically fix the racism but you can certainly force the powers that be to address it or fear the very real public backlash. This affects the perception of Texas to the public, and that's a major problem especially when recruiting for your school.
We don't just throw our hands up and ignore racism when we see it, we have to fight back against it. It's not about convincing the racists that they're wrong, it's about normalizing how wrong it is so the racists aren't emboldened to act racist in public. It's about making sure our institutions take racism seriously when they otherwise refuse to do so.
I never said throw your hands up and give in. Nothing about this is going to change the behaviors of the donors, they’re shit and will still be shit even if they come out and apologize.
Maybe not the behaviors of the donors, but the behaviors of Texas can change. Maybe that means they lose some donors going forward. But behaviors of our institutions can and should change when things like this come to light.
I’m not disagreeing with that. But that also doesn’t get at the root of the problem, and even changing the song doesn’t mean they’re rid of the behaviors that made them think it’s ok in the first place necessarily.
When have you ever seen someone argue with a racist and the racist ended up admitting their wrong and changing their ways?
How One Man Convinced 200 Ku Klux Klan Members To Give Up Their Robes
You were saying?
8.6.1Where does that disprove anything I said? He didn’t argue with them, he befriended them and coached them into realizing how stupid they were. I specifically said arguing with them. Arguing with someone is rarely a tool to get your point across
You don’t think he had to challenge their thinking once? Lol
Did I say that? And did the article say they had arguments?
Did they have discussions, probably a lot of them, almost certainly.
Arguments don’t always mean yelling and demeaning each other. Arguments can be civil discussions. They are not mutually exclusive.
True point. My view an arguing isn’t a civil discussion
I don’t think you can have a discussion on racism between a racist and non racist without some arguing back and forth. The key in this man’s case was building trust. Now, I don’t think we should expect people to be superheroes and have to try and convert 200 KKK members. But we can certainly try with family, friends and co workers because those are the ones we have relationships with.
Fair enough, I think you can, or at least would hope people could. At any point, my first post was in response to the original context that I took mgohillbilly to referring an argument as the heated variety, which I still believe doesn’t accomplish much other than getting all involved heated and it spiraling into a shit slinging fest.
Lol, nice move of the goalposts. "He didn't argue with them, he coached them into the right way of thinking."
You're wrong, dude. It's ok. This is not the hill to die on, though.
Where did I move the goalposts? I didn’t see where the article talked of them having arguments, maybe I missed it?