Taking advantage of unmitigated chaos: A question to settle a family dispute
Fellow bloggers, I recognize that this is an unacceptable post. Neg me to a Bolivian, shit in the middle of a 50 person cell, prison. This is a family heated dispute and I need help.
OPI/DPI is pretty clear. However, if the ball is in the air, is it possible for the offense or defense to be flagged for holding. Can the receiver be called for holding. If the defensive person, safety or CB restricts a player, is that holding? Or is it if the ball is in the air, it can only be OPI or DPI? Let’s say a ball is un catchable but the receiver is being held, is that still holding? Is it different for college vs NFL.
Appreciate any help.
December 4th, 2022 at 8:54 PM ^
I copied your question into the new ChatGPT tool that is taking over the world. Its response::
In American football, holding is a penalty that is called when a player holds onto another player who is not in possession of the ball. This can happen on either the offensive or defensive side of the ball, and it is illegal in both the NFL and college football.
If a player on the offense is holding onto a defender while the ball is in the air, the offense can be flagged for holding. Similarly, if a defensive player is holding onto a receiver while the ball is in the air, the defense can be called for holding.
In both cases, it does not matter whether the ball is catchable or not. The penalty is called for the act of holding onto another player, not for the successful completion of a pass.
It is also worth noting that holding is called on a case-by-case basis, and the officials have discretion to determine whether a player's actions constitute holding. The specific rules for holding may vary slightly between the NFL and college football, but the basic concept is the same in both levels of play.
December 4th, 2022 at 9:30 PM ^
that's great, but does GPT think Michigan is stealing signs?
December 4th, 2022 at 11:35 PM ^
The SF Niners have outscored their opponents something like 70-7 in the 2nd half in the past 6 games, Harbaugh coached the Niners, they both must be cheating....I just know it!
December 4th, 2022 at 8:54 PM ^
I get a receiver could be held that wasn’t the target, but I want to hone in on the targeted receiver
December 4th, 2022 at 9:10 PM ^
See MGoFunk below; that’s the non-targeted receiver.
The hold on the receiver is DPI (and visa-versa) if the ball is in the air.
EDIT: If you are arguing with your wife, she’s right, Trust me!
December 4th, 2022 at 10:15 PM ^
I concur. You are 100% right, unless you're arguing with your wife, in which case you're 100% wrong.
December 5th, 2022 at 12:03 AM ^
Marriage is actually give and take. It’s true, she is always right. But on the other hand, it’s always your fault.
December 5th, 2022 at 8:01 AM ^
You know what they say - what's mine is hers and what's hers is also hers.
December 4th, 2022 at 9:17 PM ^
It's an interesting question. I just skimmed the NCAA rulebook. I see no reason why you couldn't call holding on a defender who holds the targeted receiver after a pass crosses the neutral zone. But usually the defender's grasping of the receiver would be pass interference, so you'd call that (PI is 15 yards; holding is 10). But I think you could call holding on a defender who grasps the intended receiver when a pass is uncatchable.
December 4th, 2022 at 9:24 PM ^
I suppose you could argue that holding is, by definition, interfering with the catching of the ball. I think refs simply call a PI if you hold the guy who is the target of the pass while the ball is en route.
December 4th, 2022 at 11:28 PM ^
DPI if its a targeted receiver and catchable.
Holding if it fucks up a route, more likely to be called if a pass to nobody lands in the logical destination of the held receiver.
December 5th, 2022 at 6:19 AM ^
Pass Interference in college is at the spot of the foul or 15 yards (unless it occurs in the endzone).
So if it is a pass shorter than 10 yards, it is possible that the holding penalty is more severe.
December 4th, 2022 at 8:55 PM ^
I can't answer your question, but I certainly don't think it warrants a Bolivian prison. Turkish maybe, but definitely not Bolivian. 😊
December 4th, 2022 at 8:58 PM ^
Yes. Frequently you’ll hear the commentator say “they were on the other side of the field what were they thinking”. Or if an offensive player starts blocking before the catch is made away from the ball. Or if a defender takes down a receiver that isn’t targeted by the qb. Etc. etc.
December 4th, 2022 at 8:59 PM ^
It's always been my understanding (perhaps incorrectly so?) that regarding a targeted receiver and the associated defender, holding is pre-pass and PI occurs when the ball is in the air. I could be wrong, though.
December 4th, 2022 at 10:36 PM ^
I think you're right. Or holding is within a few yards of the los or behind.
December 4th, 2022 at 9:00 PM ^
I beileve holding can only be called on the targeted receiver prior to pass.
Sometimes the ref will preface the holding call "with prior to pass holding defense #69"
Once the ball is in the air the ref will then switch to OPI/DPI mode which means the ball has to be catchable
December 4th, 2022 at 11:29 PM ^
Unless its not catchable because of the hold. But then refer to "before or after throw"
December 4th, 2022 at 9:04 PM ^
Sorry, this will not answer your question: Officials both can and do routinely call whatever they wish-or not. As the best coach I ever played for advised us "There is one thing that there is no rule against-that is bad officiating". There were several points to this advisement...the main one being that it was his job and not ours to intervene when such an event took place.
December 4th, 2022 at 9:30 PM ^
And routinely when officials officiate a UofM game and especially a Lions game they, and their couterparts in the replay booth, write new rules into the rule book in real time.
There is now a "Penalty from Mars" category thanks to Joel Klatt.
December 4th, 2022 at 9:45 PM ^
I agree with this POV. But, in fact, officials are more likely to let holding go than make an issue of it.
One of the rules that really cuts only one way but should apply to both offense and defense, is grasping a facemark. It's almost never called on an offensive player when using a stiff arm or hand to the face to ward off a defender but officials are all over it when a defender grabs an offensive player's facemask.
Except, of course, last night when a sideline official threw the flag after McCarthy's helmet was turned as if his neck was like the girl in The Exorcist and officials had the gall to claim it wasn't twisted enough to not pick up the flag. That was one of the worst non-calls on the season.
December 5th, 2022 at 12:50 AM ^
Don't forget that Klatt said that wasn't a facemask.
December 5th, 2022 at 6:25 AM ^
I think whoever the "rules expert" said that the facemask penalty is called when anyone grabs the opening in the helmet. Apparently a hand on the surface of the helmet does not count. [though of course Michigan did get flagged for just such a play during the Ohio State game, yet Ohio State was not called for a nearly identical action a few series later]
December 4th, 2022 at 9:08 PM ^
Tom VH holds so many around here, regardless of the location or if the receiver is being targeted
December 4th, 2022 at 9:32 PM ^
Our national title hopes will now inevitably come down to a last second call adjacent to your question
December 4th, 2022 at 10:04 PM ^
My family argues over bake times. I bake my chicken 23-27 minutes, but lately it turned out better baking for 42-45 minutes.
December 4th, 2022 at 10:07 PM ^
I will have to ask Bielema.
December 4th, 2022 at 10:11 PM ^
What is interesting in the above stated rule is the situation of a tipped ball. It always seems that the sentiment is that if the ball is tipped, the defender can violate the receiver in all manner of speaking and not call him the next day.
According to that rule, even in the event of a tipped ball, you cannot hold on to another player. I've never seen that called.
December 5th, 2022 at 6:33 AM ^
Holding is only one form of PI. A tipped ball disturbs the timing of the ball arriving to the receiver, so that is why there is no clear way of saying that a defender interfered with the catch. He can still be guilty of holding, unnecessary roughness, or targeting however.
December 4th, 2022 at 10:24 PM ^
No.
Holding in the defensive backfield occurs before the ball is in the air, and PI occurs after. You could have holding on either side after the pass is caught and before the receiver is tackled though.
December 4th, 2022 at 10:51 PM ^
you didn't say who was disputing, etc. Was this brother v. sister? Husband v. wife? Owner v. dog? This would color and make your post more interesting.
Also, add pictures: one of you shouting, the other gesticulating wildly, etc.
Perhaps, finally, a sound track. Probably something like Carmina Burana.
December 4th, 2022 at 11:07 PM ^
After watching college and pro football and NOT seeing OPI or DPI being called on numerous plays I have given up trying to figure out what PI really is about four years ago.
December 4th, 2022 at 11:30 PM ^
Can we add what a catch is?
December 5th, 2022 at 12:07 AM ^
Who won?
December 5th, 2022 at 6:28 AM ^
It's a cliche in football that "If they wanted to, holding could be called on almost every play"
It seems that officials use their discretion to only call holding when it has a possible effect on the play: a receiver unable to run a route, or on a defender adjacent to the whole or pass rusher unable to escape to get to the QB, etc.
December 5th, 2022 at 8:07 AM ^
Always remember: IF YOU ARE MALE, YOU ARE WRONG!!!