mGrowOld

December 7th, 2023 at 12:01 PM ^

Si reporter doesnt carry nearly the panache it once did, once they were bought out they went with a ton of outsourced local guys, not big-name writers.

He might be a wonderful reporter on some things but i really, really doubt he's connected enough to our program to be the guy to break news this big.  Especially with what looks to my eye anyways to be a ridiculous contract sticking point.

Joined: 10/04/2010

MGoPoints: 213467

smitty1233

December 7th, 2023 at 12:10 PM ^

Agree on Jack not knowing but my question is does Harbaugh even know? I mean he seems like the kind of guy that doesn't look to the future on these types of issues until the present is taken care of. Was certainly that way his last year in SF. I mean I get he probably has an inkling of his desires but he may have not fully decided yet either just seems like who he is. He marches to his own beat 

Joined: 09/22/2009

MGoPoints: 2690

Carpetbagger

December 7th, 2023 at 1:01 PM ^

Still not believing anything until it's signed. Point above is still valid about Harbaugh. Harbaugh probably isn't sure he's going to sign it. Hence why it isn't signed.

So many people trying to be the next Nate Silver, who everyone thinks is a genius because he got lucky one time and parlayed that into a hell of a job for awhile.

Joined: 12/31/2010

MGoPoints: 6681

NRK

December 7th, 2023 at 3:09 PM ^

Nate Silver catching strays!

 

For real, this is nothing like Nate Silver and 538 though. That's all about poll analytics and they were better at doing it originally, or at least the most well known about doing it when their 2012 model performed very well. I don't think that's a fair comparison to someone providing reporting based on sourcing versus a polls model doing well. Anyway, those who ran other models have been given more attention, and also, the models didn't perform as well because they're having trouble measuring sometimes (though some models have partially fixed this). 

Joined: 02/20/2009

MGoPoints: 6411

BlueHills

December 7th, 2023 at 4:03 PM ^

If in fact the offer has been put to paper and sent to Harbaugh - the tweet doesn't make that clear, because it says, "are finalizing" the contract - a deal of that size requires a very careful, fly-speck, review, and Harbaugh's legal team needs to do their homework, and then let Michigan know if they need a clause or certain language changed.

There are undoubtedly a lot of little loose ends that will need to be cleared up, and that's what people hire lawyers for. But it's a process, and we should be patient with it.

My suspicion is that if this tweet is true, the parties are very close, and I highly doubt that in the end, Harbaugh is going to the NFL.

It'll be interesting to see whether the proposed amount includes performance bonuses for championships, bowl games, etc., or is a base package.

 

Joined: 10/31/2010

MGoPoints: 7468

Logan88

December 7th, 2023 at 11:59 AM ^

I'm fascinated by many of the members of the UM fanbase who are so excited about the prospect of Moore being UM's next head coach.

Anyone care to explain exactly WHY they are convinced he is the best person for the job when he has no head coaching experience (no, a few "fill in" games don't count)?

This seems like an insane gamble that UM does not have to and should not take. I said the same thing when Notre Dame elevated Freeman to HC. Blue blood programs don't need to take long shots like this.

Joined: 01/05/2009

MGoPoints: 8078

The Homie J

December 7th, 2023 at 12:04 PM ^

This guy beat Penn State on short notice and rained on Ryan Day's parade in Ann Arbor.  He guided our OL to back-to-back Joe Moore awards.  He's one of our best recruiters.  He's had plenty of time to download Harbaugh's football database and the players love him.

It's time for people who don't want him to defend their decision.  The guy already has 4 wins as head coach, including more top 5 wins than James Franklin

Joined: 01/11/2018

MGoPoints: 17408

Logan88

December 7th, 2023 at 12:10 PM ^

I just offered my defense: UM should NEVER hire anyone who doesn't have multiple years of experience as a successful head coach at the FBS level. This means I don't want any of the current assistants to be hired as the next HC unless they go and get some HC experience elsewhere first.

Being a good OL coach doesn't mean anything in terms of HC ability (and he sure didn't seem to develop the OL into a good unit this season, did he?) and I am not concerned if the players "love" the HC. 

Joined: 01/05/2009

MGoPoints: 8078

1VaBlue1

December 7th, 2023 at 12:20 PM ^

"...and he sure didn't seem to develop the OL into a good unit this season, did he?"

This is a damning charge, and based on what?  Because they didn't win a 3rd straight Joe Moore Award?  The OL has played pretty well, even if the running game took a step back from the last two years.  The pass game was a little more elevated this year in favor of the run, anyway.

I'll agree that UM could go out and buy a successful coach from some other P5 also-ran.  But the culture of this locker room cannot be replicated by somone outside bring in a whole new staff - and that would happen beyond doubt.  No 'name' coach is going to come in and keep Harbaugh's staff because they are loyal to Harbaugh, not new-name.  IMO, this culture is something to keep, especially with so many promising assistant coaches ready to step up (Moore, Minter, Hart, and maybe even JayBaugh).  There's no need to go outside right now...

BTW, ND wasn't looking at Freeman until their players revolted and they started losing croots.  He was hired because ND submitted to player demands, not because he was the best candidate.

Joined: 01/31/2016

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Carpetbagger

December 7th, 2023 at 1:17 PM ^

And look where that has gotten Notre Dame. Back to irrelevance.

Moore would be fine ONLY if you strike out on experienced coaches on your wish list. I like him. He has potential. I think he'll do great if he hangs around another 5-10 years to refine his trade. Or even if he leaves to learn the ropes at Toledo for awhile.

And players can go ahead and revolt. Nothing like listening to the accumulated wisdom of a bunch of 20 year olds to run a multi-billion dollar operation. That's why you pay the next guy 8 figures, keep the players you can and get new ones for those who bail.

Joined: 12/31/2010

MGoPoints: 6681

1VaBlue1

December 7th, 2023 at 3:46 PM ^

Dude, you missed the whole point of what I was saying!  ND was in no way, shape, or form, anything similar to what the UM program is today.  Also, nobody was recommending Freeman for that job - the AD didn't want him, Kelly didn't take him to LSU or recommend him as a candidate, and the boosters weren't clamoring for him.  None of those things would be true at UM for Moore or Hart.

Joined: 01/31/2016

MGoPoints: 127621

Derek

December 7th, 2023 at 12:29 PM ^

That's not a good bright-line rule considering it only had a one-third hit rate for Michigan's hires since Lloyd (who would have failed the rule) and Moeller (who also would have failed it). Considering his ability to identify and develop coaching talent, it seems reasonable to trust Harbaugh on this more than an HC beauty contest.

Joined: 06/30/2008

MGoPoints: 24385

Needs

December 7th, 2023 at 12:31 PM ^

That's not a defense, that's an argumentative position that you haven't really provided support for, other than the somewhat irrelevant example of Freeman at ND. Michigan has seen experienced coaches have great success (Bo and Harbaugh). They've also seen them fail comprehensively (RR and Hoke). They've seen assistants ... Lloyd and Moeller (no I don't think a previous unsuccessful stint at Illinois a decade before is relevant), have considerable success. 

 

Joined: 08/05/2008

MGoPoints: 11638

bdneely4

December 7th, 2023 at 2:58 PM ^

Kirby Smart never had any head coaching experience….I would say that hire has worked out for Georgia. Why can’t it be the same for us? The 12 team playoff is going to be a whole new world too for these coaches and allow a lot of them some slack on pressure with not having to have a perfect season to be considered a success. 

Joined: 01/06/2009

MGoPoints: 13938

The Oracle 2

December 7th, 2023 at 1:08 PM ^

He didn’t “beat Penn State” or OSU. He made game day coaching decisions which weren’t terrible and the team won; the team that Harbaugh put together and was in charge of during the weeks that led up to the games. He’s obviously done a good job as OC and OL coach, but those jobs are nothing like running the whole show. Maybe he would do a good job as HC, but none of us on the outside have any idea. It’s probably unknowable. What is certain is that he has no track record as the guy in charge, so automatically anointing him as the next man up doesn’t make much sense.

Michigan is a big, tough job. The academic standards are high and the home state talent base is thinner than it is for other top schools. The weather isn’t very good. Despite all this, the expectations are through the roof.

The football team went 46-42 in the seven years preceding Harbaugh’s arrival. They’d only finished in the top ten once in the previous eleven seasons (#8 in 2006). They’d finished unranked in six of the previous ten seasons. Despite this lack of success, Harbaugh’s 44-19 and four top 20 finishes in his first six seasons, which included the screwed up 2020 Covid year, wasn’t good enough for many of the fan base, who wanted him fired. Now those same fans have been re-spoiled by Harbaugh into expecting Big 10 titles every year. Even more than other jobs, it might be better for Michigan’s next head coach to have done the job before.

Joined: 02/25/2018

MGoPoints: 19223

The Mad Hatter

December 7th, 2023 at 1:43 PM ^

I'll add my answer (probably way down the thread).

I think Moore has done a great job so far as OC/OL coach, and a solid job in the games where he was the substitute coach.

My issue is this, he would be replacing Jim Harbaugh, who was probably the most qualified person to ever get the job.  Big shoes to fill.  And he wouldn't get nearly as much room to fuck up as a Michigan legend would.

Joined: 02/17/2015

MGoPoints: 112109

alum96

December 7th, 2023 at 12:08 PM ^

Right.

If Harbaugh stays it would be better for Moore to go out and prove himself running an entire program.  He was a substitute teacher for 4 days this year, not a CEO.  He did good at that.

He may be a great CEO, good, average, below average - we have no idea on how he would run a program, dealing with boosters, administrators, alumni, players, families, hang oners etc.  Something Jedd is doing out in the desert. 

Related - Only thing I care to see in any contract is the buyout; everything else is meaningless.  It could be a billion year long contract, doesn't mean much with a $3M buyout.

Joined: 04/28/2012

MGoPoints: 82561

brad

December 7th, 2023 at 12:35 PM ^

This is spot on, and furthermore we do not need to anoint a future head coach.  We have a head coach, and he is amazing.  Sherrone has been incredible as well and we are lucky to have him, but you can't just swap out Harbaugh and swap in anyone.

Further-furthermore, Coach-in-Waiting deals never work out. Mack Brown's and Urban Meyer's career arcs have taught us that.  The actual head guy is monumentally important, and timing up the changeover is nearly impossible.  Remember when Meyer was first leaving Ohio State, those numb nuts were all completely convinced Day would step in and keep things rolling exactly as before.  It was the exact opposite.

Moore is fantastic and destined for even greater success, and Coach-in-Waiting deals are pointless.

Joined: 06/30/2008

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