Smith brothers flipped to Kentucky
September 15th, 2023 at 10:40 PM ^
Unfortunate, anyways have fun winning 7 games a year.
September 15th, 2023 at 10:48 PM ^
And we were a conduit to get them from Notre Dame to Kentucky.
September 15th, 2023 at 11:27 PM ^
I didn't grow up in the Midwest, but I'd pay for a Michigan or Notre Dame degree before accepting a free ride to Kentucky.
September 15th, 2023 at 11:36 PM ^
Great comment! Also, guys like this that keep changing their minds even before they enter college is way too wishy washy and doesn't bode well as far as loyalty goes, they're probably doing us a favor.
September 15th, 2023 at 11:52 PM ^
I don't know if a Kentucky degree is worth $250K more than a Michigan degree, but this is a snotty thing to say when you lose a recruit to another university. And I say this as someone who basically did exactly what you're describing.
September 15th, 2023 at 11:57 PM ^
Idgaf if it sounds snotty. I wouldn't trade my UM education for one from any of my home state's public or private schools. These two had FREE rides at much better universities and would rather go to Kentucky. It's dumb.
September 16th, 2023 at 12:19 AM ^
Miggy’s last “hit” was scored incorrectly as it was an obvious error on the 3rd baseman. His at-bat before that, he got robbed by the 2nd baseman who easily threw him out by 5 or 6 steps. Miggy flashed the “safe” sign as he crossed the base.
If people want to call you an arrogant ass for how you feel about UM, remember mgohillbilly, you have many miles to go before you sleep.
September 16th, 2023 at 6:47 AM ^
Tunneler.... What?!?!???
September 16th, 2023 at 7:44 AM ^
It's a Robert Frost reference.
September 16th, 2023 at 10:44 AM ^
Yeah... I'm not sure the unstated reference to Frost captures what is most confusing about the post.
September 16th, 2023 at 10:14 AM ^
Like I said, I literally could have gone to any school in the commonwealth virtually for free, and went to Michigan instead. That's obviously understandable to me. But in this context when we take a loss like this, can we not go with this "Oh, our education is so much better than theirs." It's a loss, and we need to accept it as such without deflection or rationalization.
This board has a history of shitting on other schools as a fallback when he lose a game or a recruit. It's ugly.
September 16th, 2023 at 12:04 PM ^
They aren't going to Kentucky to play basketball, which would be totally understandable based on that program. These two are choosing to go to an objectively worse university and football team. If going to Kentucky were a lifelong dream, they'd have chosen so sooner. If they don't have football careers, they're not doing themselves any favors by not getting a degree from nd or um. That's a fact. I'm not trying to cope with the loss of these two recruits. I've not read any recruiting info on these guys other than this thread.
September 16th, 2023 at 1:36 PM ^
It’s not just that the education is better at UM; the football is way better too
September 16th, 2023 at 3:41 PM ^
It’s what works for each individual. Great you wouldn’t trade your UM degree. But people should do what makes them happy and attend a school they like the best and works best for them. Michigan people need to understand UM is not always for everyone. It’s a personal preference
September 17th, 2023 at 12:37 AM ^
The only thing I can think of is they weren’t confident that they would be good enough to see the field at Michigan so they decided to go somewhere where they knew they would play. Either that or they got some up-front cash to flip.
September 17th, 2023 at 1:27 AM ^
Snotty was a very nice way of wording this. Can't believe you have so many upvotes for such an arrogant and elitist opinion. People need to do what's right for them. I got directly admitted to IU's business school and ended up transferring to WMU. And I was way happier and now have a great career. I grew up in Ann Arbor and know tons of UM grads that are less successful than me. You make it seem like a UM education is some golden ticket but it all comes down to the individuals motivation
September 17th, 2023 at 11:02 AM ^
What I wouldn't have without a UM degree is Michigan fandom and the best educational experience of any of the schools I've attended. I'm confident I would feel the same way if I went to ND. Everything else in my life would be the same if I'd have stayed in state. That was worth the tuition to me (that I paid for myself) .
Again, these guys got the chance to attend Michigan or Notre Dame for free.
September 16th, 2023 at 7:58 AM ^
Good Good
September 15th, 2023 at 10:48 PM ^
If they get paid enough they probably will.
September 15th, 2023 at 10:58 PM ^
Seven per year or career?
September 16th, 2023 at 8:30 AM ^
Writing has been on the wall for this to happen for months. Does suck, as we have now lost 3 Defensive players in a month. However, looks like we still have 2 DL, and 3 Edge commits. We will probably pick up 1 or 2 in the portal, but it seems like we had too many committed, even with NIL rules. Leaves us with just going after the bigger fish, and focusing on next class.
September 16th, 2023 at 10:33 AM ^
What are these "NIL rules" you speak of?
September 15th, 2023 at 10:43 PM ^
I’m not with the sky is falling group but the 2024 class was electric towards the beginning of summer and then it hasn’t been the same since. Long season to go and there is always the portal as well so we will see how it all plays out.
September 15th, 2023 at 10:48 PM ^
UM loaded up at edge in the summer and then proceeded to lose two in a short time span.
Plenty of time left to add more pieces, but 28 did seem to be a lot. I think they might have overrecruited.
September 15th, 2023 at 11:22 PM ^
And we've now gone from two top 300 edge recruits to zero, so whatever loading up we did is mostly gone.
September 15th, 2023 at 11:32 PM ^
UM is still in it for Brian Robinson and others.
The reality is that with kids wanting up from payment UM is going to have to fight scrub schools desperate to land kids who are willing to do so.
Michigan still has 3-4 guys who can play edge in this class. Elston has an excellent track record of development.
September 15th, 2023 at 11:56 PM ^
Brian Robinson isn’t coming here. He’s Kentucky it oHio.
September 19th, 2023 at 11:14 AM ^
Wiltfong concurs. That would be 6 at the Edge for UK in this class if it happens
https://247sports.com/Season/2024-Football/CurrentTargetPredictions/
September 16th, 2023 at 10:13 AM ^
Water always finds its level. Michigan Recruiting classes will pretty much always be ranked between 5 and 20. We just don’t have the NIL resources or regional talent to land a top 5 class.
September 15th, 2023 at 10:45 PM ^
Didn't Iowa shut out Kentucky in their bowl game last year? Now that's where I'd want to play!
September 15th, 2023 at 10:47 PM ^
How bad do you have to be at football to lose to Iowa by three touchdowns?
September 16th, 2023 at 1:01 AM ^
It means your offense gave up two touchdowns.
September 17th, 2023 at 12:17 AM ^
It was a great game Iowa started 2nd string QB vs UK 3rd string QB. UK QB threw for 2 Touchdowns to get Iowa 14 of those points
September 15th, 2023 at 10:46 PM ^
Maybe they wanna try out at QB, Tim Couch style?
September 16th, 2023 at 12:27 AM ^
You referring to Tim Couch or Jared Lorenzen? Couch was a highly sought after quarterback recruit and was pretty good in college.
September 16th, 2023 at 12:35 AM ^
Highly sought after might be an understatement. Wasn't he the #1 overall rated player in his class?
September 16th, 2023 at 12:41 AM ^
I can’t remember, I’m just thinking the post above had to be thinking Lorenzen and not Couch due to Lorenzen’s size
September 16th, 2023 at 3:51 AM ^
Crap.
September 15th, 2023 at 10:51 PM ^
I don't get why you would want to go to Kentucky over Michigan, but whatever. The lack of buzz and juice with a program coming off this great 2 possibly 3 stretch sucks though.
I kind of thought we'd be at higher level with recruits and start getting even more JJs and Donovan Edwards types.
September 15th, 2023 at 10:54 PM ^
I don’t think there is a lack of buzz or juice(Kentucky certainly doesn’t have it). I think it’s Michigan not willing to pay up front for guys like Miami and Kentucky are.
September 16th, 2023 at 5:16 AM ^
Every fan base says they aren't doing NIL especially when they lose recruits.
I thought when NIL became legal meaning its okay to pay players that blaming the bagman would go away.
September 16th, 2023 at 6:02 AM ^
lol, right. now it’s just the quality of the bagman, and we’re getting left behind there, too, donchaknow.
September 16th, 2023 at 6:39 AM ^
Difference being other teams are using NIL (and NIL promises they don’t intend to keep) to buy high school recruits. Michigan has a fantastic NIL program, in paying established players that have actually done something to earn that money. One of our guards is making six figures for crying out loud.
We ARE doing NIL, and we’re doing it the way it is intended to be done. We AREN’T doing pay for play with a bunch of high school kids, which is still illegal but it’s a gray area and the NCAA has selective enforcement.
September 16th, 2023 at 7:36 AM ^
You’re not wrong, but this is likely the reason why we’re losing out on a lot of recruits or having guys flip to supposed “lesser schools.” Because there are other schools (cough Miami cough) that are willing to tell said recruit “Michigan ain’t gonna pay you upfront. They’re asking you to bet on yourself and maybe, eventually the money will come. You commit to me and I’ll pay you 100k right now. Oh, and if you perform on the field, you’ll get all the same money that Michigan is giving you. Maybe more.”
I mean…..that’s hard for ANY kid to turn down. Especially a lot of these kids that come from impoverished families or bad neighborhoods and see football as their’s and their family’s way out.
We can talk about what NIL ought to be or what it’s supposed to be, and maybe eventually some governing body will get involved and make it that way. But it’s not what NIL currently is, and because Michigan is not going to play that way, it’s going to lose out on a lot of guys it may have otherwise been in serious running for.
September 16th, 2023 at 11:54 AM ^
Those same recruits will be in the portal within two years.
September 16th, 2023 at 1:12 PM ^
Honestly I’m fine losing out on some guys who are just chasing the easy money. I want guys who want to be here. I want guys who are willing to bet on themselves. I want guys who are willing to put the work in. I want guys who want to be part of the team, part of the culture, part of the program. I want all of those guys to then find success and make as much money as they can.
But I have real reservations about paying a bunch of money to get some high school kids who may or may not amount to anything. Who may or may not even be at the school in a year or two. This model isn’t sustainable and in total honesty, it can’t be good for the culture within the locker room.
September 16th, 2023 at 4:03 PM ^
Will it matter on the field? Michigan wants guys who DO bet on the talent they have based on the rankings they are given in HS. I’d rather have the types of guys who believe they will make money by their play more than the young ones who are cashing their tickets early off HS stats and may or may not work to contribute.
If early money is their priority, then football may not be—and I hold no judgment towards those guys cashing in, just do not care deeply if they go to M. Maybe, like me, they come from abject poverty and want to provide for their families, so they go for the bag when it comes early. OK, but short term $ isn’t guaranteeing them anything other than short term upgrades.
The shame is, if M did offer more upfront to Top 125, then Harbaugh is one of the coaches who would benefit the athlete’s long term development more than these schools trying to upstart or return to glory years from deeper trenches.
September 17th, 2023 at 12:34 PM ^
But here’s the thing, Michigan HAS a baseline “salary” that all players receive in NIL, they’re not getting nothing prior to earning big NIL deals later. It’s just not the 6 figure offers some of these schools are offering. I grew up in a single-parent home, we were not remotely well off. I grew up in a rough part of Flint. So I get the draw to up-front money and what that means to the entire family. I don’t hold a grudge against anyone taking that route.
BUT, I don’t want players at Michigan that are only at Michigan for the money. I think that’s bad for the culture, i think it’s bad for chemistry, i think it’s a potential cancer in the locker room. So I have severe reservations about Michigan joining that group of schools offering huge money to high school kids. And if that means we miss out on a handful of top 100 guys, I can live with that. Our development speaks for itself and we’ll still land some of those guys regardless.
I’m not mad at someone like Chiles for taking Florida’s offer. But… someone who was Michigan, Michigan, Michigan for so long and flips his choice to Florida the moment a bag drops, I would have concerns about him buying in at Florida. I’d have concerns about him being happy there and sticking out his career there. Often you’ll find people that make major decisions solely for financial reasons come to regret those decisions. Doesn’t mean it will happen in every case, but it’s an issue we’ve seen a few times already.
September 16th, 2023 at 6:44 AM ^
A lot of people (not necessarily you) are ignoring the possibility that these guys will get up-front payments and then pull a "Quinn Ewers" on their original school.
September 16th, 2023 at 4:15 PM ^
Contracts go both ways. If anyone giving a recruit $$ without having some kind of endorsement obligations spelled out, then that is on them. These deals have to have some kind of endorsement ties—they cannot just say “play for my team and you get money.” Those would be illegal and get teams in front of the NCAAA.
So, whatever you allege Ewers did at OSU—he stayed there a year and they could get money back from him/sue if he broke any of his contractual endorsements.
They paid to get him on campus and try to play. He did that. He left for a better opportunity to play sooner, not to steal $.
I hate OSU, and am glad they don’t have Ewer. I just don’t get how fans think that these collectives are getting duped by transfers.
As far as the general uproar has been—players are having collectives break their promises or screw recruits over more than students are doing that to these programs and their surrogate collectives.