Sam Webb: Schembechler Hall shocked & extra motivated by ESPN allegations
Sam Webb called around to his Michigan sources to get their take on the ESPN report regarding Connor Stalions. "We found out when you did," said one. Rest of the story here (please do subscribe to 247 to get beyond the paywall). But I think it's significant info in that it lends further credence to the idea that this was a rogue staffer, not something that the Michigan coaching staff sanctioned or organized.
October 24th, 2023 at 10:35 AM ^
Summary of Sammy Redd's posting history:
October 24th, 2023 at 9:39 AM ^
A “rogue staffer” filming games and providing it to the university to be used is still an NCAA violation and potentially evidence of lack of institutional control.
October 24th, 2023 at 9:46 AM ^
What about a rogue staffer in the Billiard Room, bludgeoning Professor Plum with a candlestick?
October 24th, 2023 at 12:06 PM ^
It's always the candlestick.
October 24th, 2023 at 9:47 AM ^
If the rogue staffer was intentionally hiding his sources/methods from his superiors, then how is it lack of control? It is almost impossible to oversee and verify every single aspect of an employee's job.
The ncaa may try and pull this, but that would open up vulnerabilities to every program.
October 24th, 2023 at 9:58 AM ^
Ensuring your subordinates are operating within the ethical parameters that are inline with NCAA rules is essential.
Connor’s main duty was to figure out opponents signs to benefit Michigan. A good manager is certainly asking him how he obtains this information.
October 24th, 2023 at 10:14 AM ^
Yes - a good manager asks.
And if the employee lies and gives a plausible explanation?
Does a good manager investigate every single source used by the employee... to the detriment of the other responsibilities of that manager?
October 24th, 2023 at 10:21 AM ^
So based on that, Michigan would benefit for presenting evidence that Connor deliberately misled Michigan staff in how he was collecting this information. That’s a good point. I hope Michigan has that.
October 24th, 2023 at 10:21 AM ^
So based on that, Michigan would benefit for presenting evidence that Connor deliberately misled Michigan staff in how he was collecting this information. That’s a good point. I hope Michigan has that.
October 24th, 2023 at 10:42 AM ^
Really living up to your avatar today Toby.....
October 24th, 2023 at 2:03 PM ^
By that logic, any rule breaking, which usually always benefits the team breaking the rules would be a lack of institutional control since all leaders are supposed to keep everyone in line including themselves.
October 24th, 2023 at 12:14 PM ^
It may come down to whether Michigan had a sufficient compliance program - how did they train staffers, how did they monitor them, etc.? Hopefully, we have a great one and that will cut in our favor.
This is always a problem in organizations - your people are under pressure to perform, so if you don't guard against it, they sign people up for unwanted bank accounts or trade on inside information or torture prisoners for information or whatever.
You can never get those things to zero, but typically, governing bodies look for evidence that the organization did what it could to control and reduce misconduct.
October 24th, 2023 at 12:25 PM ^
A lack of institutional control is found when the Committee on Infractions determines that major violations occurred and the institution failed to display:
– Sufficient monitoring to ensure the compliance measures are followed.
October 24th, 2023 at 9:49 AM ^
Toby, why are you the way that you are?
October 24th, 2023 at 10:30 AM ^
Harbaugh isn't personally ensuring everything Toby does is in line with what the NCAA, Osu fans, and Karen think is "acceptable".
October 24th, 2023 at 10:39 AM ^
Sounds good, and if you get caught violating NCAA rules, you run the risk of the consequences.
October 24th, 2023 at 9:54 AM ^
The "rogue staffer" wasn't filming games. Stalions was allegedly buying tickets for other people not affiliated with the university then they would give him the film to analyze as his official job was analyzing video and sign stealing in a legal manner. It's very possible that the staff just thought he was really good at his official job
October 24th, 2023 at 10:59 AM ^
When do we get to the part of the plot where Toby runs away to Costa Rica? Because everyone can use a break from whiney Toby
October 24th, 2023 at 12:18 PM ^
You shouldn’t be down voted but
most likely the staffer’s violation didn’t yield any results so no one had any questions.
October 24th, 2023 at 12:30 PM ^
The board’s collective head is too deep in the sand to call this what it is. Michigan cheated and we have no idea how beneficial it was to our success. Do we beat OSU without this info the last 3 years? We’ll unfortunately never know, and the wins will almost invariably be vacated.
October 24th, 2023 at 9:41 AM ^
I hope our team uses this as fire and torches every thing/team in front of them this year!
October 24th, 2023 at 9:45 AM ^
But I think it's significant info in that it lends further credence to the idea that this was a rogue staffer, not something that the Michigan coaching staff sanctioned or organized.
The thing I'm worried about is 1) The Pat Fitzgerald issue. Teams and head coaches are expected to know what's going on in every nook and cranny of their team. Even though hazing would likely be more obvious than an analyst doing this. 2) How did Stalions pay for all of this?
October 24th, 2023 at 9:47 AM ^
Connor’s Venmo was also public, showing very “interesting” transactions with Michigan interns. Michigan being “blindsided” by this showcases incredible sloppiness.
October 24th, 2023 at 9:53 AM ^
Shut up, Toby
October 24th, 2023 at 10:01 AM ^
Sorry I’m being mean about Michigan potentially commuting NCAA violations, which would lead to severe penalties. You don’t have to agree with me, but I’m allowed to ask questions and give opinions on the matter.
October 24th, 2023 at 10:53 AM ^
Would you like to speak to a supervisor?
October 24th, 2023 at 7:23 PM ^
If I saw you step into a porta john, I'd push it over.
October 24th, 2023 at 9:56 AM ^
The Venmo transaction that everyone seems to be showing for the OSU vs UGA game is not an NCAA infraction though. Schools are allowed to scout CFP games in person (which once again just shows the absurdity of the rule existing in the first place)
October 24th, 2023 at 9:58 AM ^
Exactly. In fact, there's another rule that prevents Stalions from paying someone from taking a video of the NCAA Championship Contest(s), so the only way to scout this game would be to go to it in person.
October 24th, 2023 at 10:03 AM ^
That’s good news. There were other “tshirt” transactions, but it’s unknown if those were related to in person filming of games.
October 24th, 2023 at 11:12 AM ^
Schools are allowed to scout CFP games in person
But not regular season / conference games? Is this true? Because there are different CFP rules versus NCAA rules?
What a fucked up system.
That rule deserves the disrespect it gets.
October 24th, 2023 at 10:11 AM ^
I can't believe they don't have a staffer to check Venmo and credit card history of the whole staff.
October 24th, 2023 at 10:17 AM ^
Every idiot knows you always pay a hooker... er, intern.. in cash.
October 24th, 2023 at 11:03 AM ^
Unless you're Jerry Springer, who notoriously paid with a CHECK (true story -- happened in 1974).
October 24th, 2023 at 10:24 AM ^
Guys, he didn't "cover his tracks" because he wasn't breaking a rule. If he was breaking the rules, it would be important to avoid a paper trail. But if he tried to cover his tracks, that in itself looks suspicious.
October 24th, 2023 at 11:30 AM ^
You are correct. This will likely be his explanation. He researched this carefully and is not in violation of any NCAA rules.
October 24th, 2023 at 12:26 PM ^
Bolivian
October 24th, 2023 at 11:03 AM ^
Big difference between knowing what is happening on your own campus versus knowing dude asked his buddy from another state to go watch games and report back.
October 24th, 2023 at 9:46 AM ^
As frustrating as this episode is, I'm glad it was publicized now instead of, say, December. As the NCAA itself has acknowledged, sign-stealing affords "minimal competitive advantage." At the same time, college football being the competitive environment that it is, if there's an advantage to be gained, most programs are going to and, in fact, do steal signs, or try to. This coming out now, weeks before the meat of our schedule against OSU and PSU, destroys any excuse those teams have when we beat them. Obviously MSU didn't have time to change their signals, leading to the obliteration that was Saturday night (TIC!), but if PSU and OSU don't change their signals, given the time they have, that's on them.
October 24th, 2023 at 11:18 AM ^
The NCAA itself has acknowledged, sign-stealing affords "minimal competitive advantage."
So, the fair Michigan punishment should be to go back and dock us a field goal from the score of each of our games.
OK, dock us a touchdown just to be safe.
OK, dock us two touchdowns just to be safe.
OK, dock us three touchdowns just to be safe.
What's that you say? Still doesn't matter.
October 24th, 2023 at 11:25 AM ^
If any coach doesn't change up their signals for every game is stupid as fuck. You play the game on Saturday(or whenever) then you scrap your cardboard, or change them around.
Your opponents scour the tape of the last game and figure it out but it shouldn't matter because...you changed your signs.
BTW has anyone heard Frames opinion on this since he's in the crosshairs in a few weeks?
October 24th, 2023 at 1:01 PM ^
Exactly. I mean, third base coaches and managers have been giving signals for 100 years without any problem. Catchers change up signs when there's a guy on second so as not to tip pitches. The only baseball scandal was the Astros (and maybe others) stealing simple pitch signs.
Bottom line: NCAA should use some of the billions of TV money they roll around in to install radios in helmets, like the NFL, for every FBS team (at a minimum).
October 24th, 2023 at 2:53 PM ^
"NCAA should use some of the billions of TV money they roll around in to install radios in helmets, like the NFL, for every FBS team"
In 2021 the NCAA has 1$.15 billion in REVENUE.
$613 million of that was handed out to the 1,200 member schools.
They did not have "billions" - they have about $540 million MINUS operating expenses.
October 24th, 2023 at 9:47 AM ^
Well, my thinking is that we aren’t taking anybody lightly the rest of this year. Sucks to be Purdue, PSU, Maryland and OSU. Talk about about getting sent to Bolivia… My prediction: Pain!!
October 24th, 2023 at 9:49 AM ^
At this point - if we are to treat these newest reports as fact - someone on staff had to have asked Conor how he got these signals. He was on the sidelines clearly giving his own signals, with influence, and being paid by the University.
If his answer was, “You’re not going to believe this, but I have been buying tickets and having my associates record our future opponents sidelines from their phones, then using that information to enhance my scouting of said opponent, in order to benefit my beloved Michigan Wolverines, and ultimately bring us to a National Championship.” then that is a big problem if allowed to continue unabated.
If his answer was more vague, say something like, “My time in the Marines and at the Naval Academy taught me many methods of code deciphering” then someone is in trouble - considerably less trouble than the first scenario.
If his response was, “I gleaned all of this information from the All-22 film that was issued to me.” then we may have a chance of avoiding some penalties.
There are many opponents ahead, the NCAA and B1G seem to be the two most equipped to defeat us.
October 24th, 2023 at 10:52 AM ^
Id bet money on it being #2 or #3 on your list - I just can't see Harbaugh & Co risking everything for a modest advantage like this. The only question will be what kind of punishment does the NCAA administer many months from now. We don't know enough yet
October 24th, 2023 at 11:12 AM ^
Of course scenario number one is preposterous. Especially given Stalions allegedly purchased the tickets in his own name. I don’t know if this is even possible with the bylaws, but at this point would anyone here be shocked to see the B1G step in and say that Michigan is not allowed to play in the B1G Championship game? Especially if they have evidence of their own to make their own determination? I for one would not be surprised. This gives the committee a reason to say, well, Michigan is not even conference champions, and with the surrounding controversy, we have left them out of the playoff. I know this is a doomsday scenario, but you will have to forgive me, ever since they tried to pin Debbie’s death on Mr. Strickland, my brain just tends to go to that place first.
October 24th, 2023 at 1:01 PM ^
Considering that Michigan's brand is very, very valuable, and that the alleged behavior is not obviously in violation of the poorly-worded rules, either the B1G or the NCAA would have to be willing to risk a massive lawsuit in order to take a proactive action like that without clearly documented findings. The process can take years to complete, and Michigan has no incentive to hurry it along.
Demand the due process to which you are entitled, allow the process to drag out over a long time, and in the meantime lay waste to every opponent that has the misfortune to appear on the schedule.
October 24th, 2023 at 9:49 AM ^
Gonna go to the Purdue game with a blue hat on that says "NOT A UM Scout" and hold my phone up the whole time.
October 24th, 2023 at 9:54 AM ^
Go win the whole damn thing and dare them to take it away from you….