Roman Wilson TD review: How is there any doubt among the media?
So listening to Klatt this morning, who I think (normally) is the best in the game, he talks about the Roman Wilson TD maybe not being a TD. Other talking heads keep acting as if it was a questionable TD.
Obviously, I'm a homer, but I simply don't understand how this isn't clearly a TD under any interpretation of the rules, unless I'm totally missing something.
- Wilson catches the ball
- Wilson secures the ball
- Wilson crosses the line
- Wilson knee hits the ground several feet in to the endzone, still has the ball
- After Wilson hits the ground, the ball is stripped from him halfway in to the endzone
Once Wilson crossed the line, that's a TD. Even during the telecast, one reply was all that was needed to confirm this.
So why is this still seemingly up for debate? Legitimately asking, since this seems like it really isn't up for debate.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:02 AM ^
Because it’s Michigan vs everybody
November 27th, 2023 at 10:25 AM ^
Enough said! No need to read further.
November 27th, 2023 at 11:08 AM ^
This needs to be said:
Everybody is misinterpreting the rule. THE BALL DOES NOT HAVE TO CROSS THE GOAL LINE.
The line marks the BEGINING of end zone. Not the end of the field of play, As soon as the ball touches the leading edge of the goal lime it is a touchdown.
That makes the call even easier.
November 27th, 2023 at 11:27 AM ^
People seem to be most hung up on Roman adjusting his grip on the ball as he crosses the plane, thinking that means he doesn't have control. But that's ridiculous, because he's clearly pinning the ball to his chest even if it moves a little after the defender swipes it. Unless he's clearly bobbling the ball while crossing the goal line, it doesn't mean shit. The JT Barrett spot is a legit controversial call, this is just sour grapes over a correct call
November 27th, 2023 at 11:57 AM ^
Last year Roman literally bobbled a ball into the end zone and they marked him down at the one.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:32 AM ^
This is exactly right. I am completely fine with having the moron media outlets giving OSU an excuse for their loss. They haven’t even stopped at this play as there were supposedly other calls that “gave” us The Game. If there is one thing that I have learned throughout the last decade in a half it’s that no one cares about the excuses that come up from the team that loses. Look no further than the 2016 game. There was an entire video showing missed calls in that game. OSU still won the game and that win will never be taken away unfortunately. The more OSU focuses on the excuses, the more they are not actually getting IT. This game has always been won in the trenches. We have dominated the trenches in 2021 and 2022 and this year we held our own and just had better play calling. The call was a TD, it was a TD and will be a TD for the rest of time. Go Blue!
November 27th, 2023 at 10:48 AM ^
exactly right - and because it gives OSU an excuse because after all "it was an INT so Michigan was gifted with 7 points and without those 7 points Michigan loses - can't you see it? Can't you see that?!?!"
November 27th, 2023 at 11:49 AM ^
Without those 7 points that was a really bad decision to kick a FG on our final possession. /s
November 27th, 2023 at 11:59 AM ^
Yeah. Just something to talk about to fill air space, more grist for the controversy mill.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:02 AM ^
Honestly, when I got home and watched the broadcast replays, it was a lot closer than I thought. In the stadium (south endzone), there was no doubt.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:04 AM ^
He makes the catch at the 5, takes multiple steps, football move by securing it against his body, and crosses the plane of the end zone.
Also surprised by how Klatt is trying to make this a controversy.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:06 AM ^
Yeah, Klatt has been very supportive of Michigan in the past. Not sure why this is the hill he wants to die on.
November 27th, 2023 at 11:40 AM ^
Because it's open for interpretation if Wilson had secured possession a) long enough for a catch b) while his knee was down or while he broke the plane.
Klatt's still the same guy he was when we slobbered him.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:07 AM ^
I thought it was close. It was unclear whether he had possession of the ball before he went to the ground. He took multiple steps but the ball was not secure. Whether it was called catch or interception the call was going to be confirmed, we caught a break on the initial call.
As for Klatt, he called a biased game for OSU. First time I have heard him do it. Gus and Klatt have been leaning anti-UM since the "scandal" and they went all in for 3 quarters on Saturday. They finally surrendered when Zinter went down and Corum scored because it was destiny at that point.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:21 AM ^
Wilson catches the ball at the 5 with two hands with R foot on the ground, touches his L foot down. Burke (#10) gets a hand on it and it *maybe* sightly moves, but Wilson now has it against his chest with 2 hands while his R foot is down around the 3, takes step with L, lunge with R and the L knee down while simultaneously breaking plane- play over.
I agree that had it been called INT- it would have stood also, but that's because college replay is consistently inconsistent.
We can agree to disagree and it's impossible to be unbiased as a Michigan fan, but I will die on the hill that Klatt is unnecessarily creating drama, including continuing to speak that it was 'questionable.'
November 27th, 2023 at 10:27 AM ^
Yup, that was clearly a TD.
I remember one time a Calvin Johnson TD for the Lions getting overturned after replay showing he didn't have control going to the ground in the end zone, or some such thing. It was one of those rulebook interpretations that defied common sense. For this not to have been a TD would have been similarly obtuse.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:01 PM ^
That is the “have to complete the process of the catch” rule. RW caught the ball, then became a runner (I guess), so then he only needed to get the back across the plane of the goal line.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:33 AM ^
This is what I saw as well with the slow-mo replay. He clearly catches and secures it takes several steps and then Burke swipes at it and it moves and then Wilson re-clutches the ball and falls in the endzone and then Burke rips it out of his hands. Had this been in the open field it would have been a fumble but it wasn't. TD.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:41 AM ^
Even if it happened in the open field, he has the ball pinned against his chest with 2 hands with a knee down ending the play, after establishing control- the 'act common to the game' of moving the ball from his outstretched arms to secure against his chest.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:43 AM ^
I stand by that it was close and that the call was going to stand either way, and that I thought Klatt was biased during the broadcast.
I just listened to his segment on the podcast though and I really don't think I hear Klatt "doubling down" on anything. He basically says "it was close, did not think he had become a runner yet, others disagree." He goes on to call it "one of the best passes he had ever seen." So I don't think Klatt is piling on anything.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:47 AM ^
-1 for me and +1 for you because I did not actually listen to Klatt today. My post based off his comments during game, and just took what OP said about it being questionable.
November 27th, 2023 at 12:39 PM ^
He took four steps with the ball not moving in relation to his hands. He has control. People are confusing that the ball is exposed with not having control. He does not have to tuck it to have control. There is no bobble.
November 27th, 2023 at 11:01 AM ^
Yeah, I agree that this catch isn't 100% clear. The issue being that people can argue whether he definitely had control or not. To my eyes there was the tiniest bit of ball movement that it could be argued either way.
November 27th, 2023 at 11:08 AM ^
That replay angle makes it clear it’s a TD. Ball secured, two steps, ball slides a little, ball secured in end zone, play is over. End of play. TD Michigan.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:13 AM ^
I believe he has been pro-Michigan in the past, probably got some pushback from BuckNuts fans, and overcorrected a bit to try and seem unbiased. Gus sounded pro-Nut as well and it was annoying.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:34 AM ^
I’m not surprised whatsoever. Klatt is a Big 10 homer and he knows who pays him. He’s going to throw bones to every top dog he can and that absolutely includes OSU. He’s doing his best to give everyone a fair shake and that seems to be what he is doing here. It’s also a way for him to keep OSU viewers engaged and not lose a ton of his viewership who basically have no reason to care about what happens to their team the rest of the year.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:46 AM ^
Honestly, this. Look where his feet are when he catches the ball. He travels 5 yards on the field and probably another 1 yard into the endzone before the ball is ripped away. It seems a much bigger stretch to say they should overturn a TD when the receiver traveled 6 vertical yards after initially securing the ball.
November 27th, 2023 at 12:38 PM ^
If the late OSU play was a catch and fumble, Wilson's play was clearly a TD. Wilson had at least one more step than the OSU receiver before losing the ball...
November 27th, 2023 at 10:09 AM ^
This is the literal definition of "call stands."
Looked like a touchdown. Called a touchdown. Maybe not? Let's take a look. Ten hearty minutes later we still can't decide. Maybe. Maybe not. Unless we've got a definitive reason to overturn the ruling on the field... call stands. And the game moves on.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:15 AM ^
He possessed the ball and crossed the goal line.....TD! Thats been a td since the leather helmet. He could have kicked the ball through the uprights at that point. Never saw this much BS about a clear play. I liked Klatt but he was given a pregame script by fox to set a narrative. He's suddenly no better than espn to me now.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:22 AM ^
I think the question is about whether he actually possessed it. While I believe he did, there's a slightly bobble there after a step or two which leaves it open to argument about whether he truly had possession when he crossed the plane.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:24 AM ^
He possessed the ball with two hands after the initial bobble. Possessing the ball he has his third step, crossing the goal line with possession going to the ground. Play over, TD. As they go to the ground, the ball is already dead, burke rolling on Wilson gets hold of the ball and pulls it free. By the time burke has the ball they are 3yds into the endzone and Wilson has been down for 3yds....
This was ruled a td as stated many times, steps, possession, crosses the goal line TD at that moment. Play over. No way to overturn that call on the field. That would have been some tcu officiating to overturn that td....
November 27th, 2023 at 10:29 AM ^
Yup, that should have been a TD even if called something else on the field. He was clutching it tightly as he crossed the goal line and his knee it the ground.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:42 AM ^
They want two Big Ten teams in the CFP.
November 27th, 2023 at 11:27 AM ^
100% agree. Which is also why I've never complained that JT was short. In both cases the officials let the play stand as called because there was no definitive evidence the call on the field was wrong.
Which is exactly the way I want my football.
November 27th, 2023 at 12:41 PM ^
Except they did not review the spot
November 27th, 2023 at 3:42 PM ^
The bigger problem with 2016 game was not the spot, it was literally nothing being called on OSU including multiple obvious holds and flat out tackling UM receivers with the ball in the air. People who boil it down to the spot are severely understating the level of one sided officiating in that game.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:25 AM ^
I agree. He had "control", but it was tenuous. I think if the call had been interception, it would have stood, too.
That being said, I'm a big believer in going with the real-time call whenever possible. What it "felt like" at game speed is usually the closest to the spirit of whatever the rules are, and in real-time, that felt like a catch and touchdown. Within the letter of the rules? Iffy. But in terms of what football feels like? Definitely a touchdown.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:31 AM ^
I agree with your 2nd paragraph. Well said. (Was going to downvote because of first paragraph. I would have overturned on replay if it had been ruled an interception since he clearly had control going into endzone.)
November 27th, 2023 at 11:13 AM ^
How dare you consider downvoting your nephew! :)
November 27th, 2023 at 10:31 AM ^
It's a classic "call stands" replay, the replay only creates some doubt, not clear evidence to change the call on the field. It's what should have happened last year for Roman's catch against TCU and for the strip sack TD in 2021 against MSU.
Replay got everything right in Saturday's game. A few clear overturns (JJ short of the marker, Roman's butt down OOB before he got the ball) three "replays are not definitive" calls where the call on the field stood (Corum short of the goal line, Roman securing the catch, Fleming's fumble/incomplete). The replay official in used replay exactly how replay should be used.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:43 AM ^
I agree. I know crapping on refs is a rite of passage on this blog but I thought it was an excellently called game by both the refs on the field and in the booth. This might have been the first 'big' game that I recall that the replay official didn't make a rash decision on any call. Roman was clearly out and JJ was clearly short - I had zero problem with the change on those. Everything else (yes, including Roman's play) was iffy. That is exactly when things should stand. I guess Moore's pick was confirmed instead of "stands" but I assumed that was reviewed just for the sake of the moment.
I think the issue with Roman's TD was that he never had firm control before taking steps upfield. Therefore, I think by the rule he must survive the ground in that case. I am not 100% convinced he did but again, TD on the field, wasn't obviously wrong, call stands. Same thing with the OSU catch - fumble; wasn't obvious, call stood as painful as it was at the moment.
Also, I had zero problems with the on the field officials. They let both sides play and only called the very obvious things. I'll take that over a flag fest any day because those never work out evenly.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:51 AM ^
It was a great effort by Roman Wilson. The part of it, however, that he doesn't get enough credit for is that he immediately and genuinely (and demonstratively) reacted to it as if he had control of the ball when he crossed the goal line.
I think this subconsciously influenced this particular referee to make the call maybe sooner than he otherwise would have, and on replay, they had to go with the initial call. From the ref's perspective, all the facts were consistent with a touchdown including the ball carrier's reaction (versus, say, reaching for the ball in the OSU player's hands), and the ref went with his gut. If the ref paused and thought further, he may have reached a different conclusion. For the record, I do believe it was a touchdown in fact.
November 27th, 2023 at 11:14 AM ^
Wilson had control of the ball when he broke the plane. Anything that happened after that is irrelevant.
How many times have we seen a player dive towards the endzone or pylon and instantly lose control of the ball as soon as he or the ball touches the ground and it still be considered a touchdown? A few hundred times?
This was no different.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:02 AM ^
There's no doubt in my mind it was a touchdown, but if OSU fans want to whine I'd just say it was justice for 2016.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:20 AM ^
Disgree.
2016 was a bad call. He was short. And the game should have been over on that play. The call on Saturday was the the correct call on the field and the correct call on replay.
So...the football gods still owe us huge game ending call that is incorrect, but nonetheless grants us a win over OSU.
November 27th, 2023 at 10:29 AM ^
If I may - had 2016 been called "short". The vernacular for those five years - from the 2016 game through the '21 game - would have been notably different. Those are five years we'll never get back.
IIRC - media was all over Harbaugh because Michigan was not able to defeat Ohio State. The tune has changed - and, now - it seems Ryan Day is getting a bit of heat.
I'm enjoying every day - and, look forward to the next play, series, and game. Kickoff is just after 8:00 pm on Saturday in Indy. Enjoy! Go Blue!
November 27th, 2023 at 10:31 AM ^
The issue with the 2016 game wasn't really that call by itself. It was, honestly, extremely close and the call on the field was never going to be overturned.
The issue was that every 50-50 call or no-call (and there were a bunch) seemed to go OSU's way. It was the totality of it all. For instance, OSU's final drive in regulation was kept alive by a borderline DPI call, but when nearly the exact same type of play happened in our 2OT possession, there was no flag.
Also: the ref called what he dubbed a "technical foul" on Harbaugh for tossing his play sheet.
November 27th, 2023 at 11:02 AM ^
OSU had a touchdown drive in the 4th quarter that was setup to the BS pass interference on 3rd & Long inside their own 20. Nobody made contact. When the flag came out for that, that was confirmation that we weren’t going to win.
November 27th, 2023 at 11:31 AM ^
Our WR was blatantly tackled right in front of a referee on our first drive of the game, and no call. We proceeded to get called for every single ticky-tack PI possible. That's when you knew it wasn't a fair game and there was gonna be a bunch of bullshit all day long