Recruiting reset
With Theo Johnson off the board, there are only a few elite prospects that we are in on still.
DGW at CB is probably our best shot left. I’d say he’s 50-50. QB Stroud looks like OSU lean. SDE Fillinger has had a run of Utah crystal balls this week. We are still in on several OTs as well. Top 100 overall Andrew Gentry still has all crystal balls pointed to BYU.
If we could finish with DGW and get another OL, it’s still a very good class, but not elite, as we have become accustomed to. If we don’t get Stroud, it will be interesting to see what we do at qb.
A couple of our current commits have got recent bumps and our overall average is up to .8973 now. We may end up over 90 just by removing a few current commits. QB Johnson will drop off at some point and there was a poster on here who hinted that Patterson and Mazzcuah might not end up in this class. If those 3 were removed our average rating would be 90, and we would be above 90 without Garcia, who is coming for wrestling and may or may not use a football scholarship at some point. That is pretty consistent with what we have had the last 4 classes. Don’t look at the average player ratings for Clemson, OSU, Bama, LSU and Georgia unless you want to be depressed.
December 9th, 2019 at 3:42 PM ^
Paye is the only real contributor in the class. There is hope that Paea and Vilain could recover next year and help out, and maybe Jeter, who looked terrible in limited time early in the season.
December 9th, 2019 at 7:23 PM ^
Are we sure that Paea exists? His name is occasionally mentioned but I've seen no evidence that this person is real.
December 9th, 2019 at 3:43 PM ^
I'm not entirely sure you can call what Jeter did as "contributing."
December 9th, 2019 at 4:43 PM ^
I don't think it is totally fair that Jeter got asked to play a role his body wasn't really equipped to play due to recruiting failures as not contributing. He helped get us through the early part of the season even if it wasn't always ideal.
December 10th, 2019 at 10:06 AM ^
Jeter did not have a single tackle this year in 9 games.
He had 2 tackles in 7 games last year.
He's not contributing.
December 9th, 2019 at 4:36 PM ^
Exactly UM is 9-3 because Harbaugh recruits 9-3 talent. Is Ryan Day really an 11-0 coach or does he have the most talented team in the Big Ten?
How many people think if Saban was UM’s coach, with UM’s talent, that he would’ve led UM to a victory this season or last season against OSU?
December 9th, 2019 at 5:42 PM ^
Who brings the talent in ? And who is responsible to put them in the best position to succeed?
December 9th, 2019 at 6:13 PM ^
Lackluster recruiting is my main issue with the current staff. We don't have a single top recruiter anymore and it shows.
Brown in particular is a problem. His best defense was made up a big DL and heat seeking missiles recruited by his predecessors. Now that he's in charge we have an undersized DL and not nearly enough talent or depth in the secondary.
December 9th, 2019 at 7:09 PM ^
Things definitely seem to be going in the wrong direction. Hard to say if our coaches have lost their recruiting edge (Partridge was considered a top-10 guy as recently as last year) or if the team's relative mediocrity is taking its toll.
December 9th, 2019 at 10:03 PM ^
And Harbaugh hasn't fixed recruiting. He didn't renew Wheatley's contract and our recruiting tanked. That was a dumbass move.
December 9th, 2019 at 10:39 PM ^
Yeah that was a mistake. I don't remember the circumstances of his leaving though.
December 9th, 2019 at 3:08 PM ^
Could any of our defensive line recruits play on the interior? That feels like our single biggest need
December 9th, 2019 at 3:26 PM ^
There are 3 SDEs in the 20 class but the heaviest one is Braiden McGregor at 248 lbs.
December 9th, 2019 at 3:43 PM ^
Yes but players generally bulk up once they get to college. McGregor will likely end up in the 270s and be SDE. Lewis is a Wormley type so maybe 290-300 and bouncing between DE and DT. Jenkins is supposed to go inside at DT.
December 9th, 2019 at 3:56 PM ^
That's what I have been holding onto but damn I didn't realize how light both Lewis and Jenkins currently are. I'm going to hold onto saying it just means it can be all good weight added and not needing to get rid of bad weight.
December 9th, 2019 at 4:07 PM ^
Isn't Kris Jenkins the son of a former pro bowl NT? We've done surprisingly well with legacy recruits lately.
December 9th, 2019 at 3:08 PM ^
It’s talent! No ... it’s coaching! No ... it’s talent!
this argument is exhaustive and never-ending on here. Wisky wins with less talent. PSU has the same as us and they win. Bama has more and they win. There is no magic formula.
December 9th, 2019 at 3:30 PM ^
Its actually pretty much all talent. Getting to be Wisconsin (or PSU) doesn't mean anything (and we are also already there). Every single national champion comes from what is considered an elite recruiting school were at least 50% of the roster is 4 or 5 star players. The most consistent programs (Bama, OSU) are the ones that have the highest percentage because elite recruiting is the only way to build a consistent winner that doesn't have no margin for error for missing on a couple guys or injuries.
December 9th, 2019 at 3:38 PM ^
I wouldn't say we are "already there" with respect to Wisconsin and PSU. We do have wins over them but each has gone to at least one conference championship and better bowls than we. When's our last Rose Bowl appearance and conference title berth?
December 9th, 2019 at 8:08 PM ^
You act like Wisky or PSU have been better than us over recent years.
December 9th, 2019 at 9:52 PM ^
That’s because they have.
December 9th, 2019 at 3:38 PM ^
"Don’t look at the average player ratings for Clemson, OSU, Bama, LSU and Georgia unless you want to be depressed."
I'd bet the Georgia folks are plenty depressed.
December 9th, 2019 at 3:44 PM ^
The devil is in the details: if you have an 18th ranked class, but you are filling your biggest depth needs with your top recruits, then you are better off. If you are filling those needs with the lesser ranked part of the class then you still have gaps.
i.e., 2 and 3 star fliers are ok in positions of depth. Everybody loves an out of nowhere story. You are at best delaying filling the gap until they develop in positions of need.
December 9th, 2019 at 6:30 PM ^
I think this is true with Clemson. People keep claiming they have equal talent level as UM. They seem to prioritize that where it matters more. Their 2015 class had three DL with an average of 96.48 and the next year they got a DT rated at 99.92. During these years they averaged 89 and 90 for overall recruit, but the most important area of the field they averaged high 90s.
December 9th, 2019 at 3:53 PM ^
I’d kill for an alum96 swim lanes post right about now.
December 9th, 2019 at 3:55 PM ^
I just want us to step our game up in this arms race
December 9th, 2019 at 3:58 PM ^
We'll always get our fare share of 4-star kids from good families that are interested in academics, are from MI, are legacy kids, or grew up as UM fans. But, if we want the elite kids out of region that are not necessarily academically oriented, not bad students, just may not be focused on academics and we don't have an "in" with already, we've probably gotta to beat OSU more than once every 8 years.
December 9th, 2019 at 4:29 PM ^
Our coach is a proven commodity now, not the eccentric, Innovative recruiting guy they saw the first couple years and we're willing to give a chance on,recruits see him getting beat down by Elite teams like OSU. The shine has worn off, we have reached the plateau, and if you're happy with 9 and 4, 10 and 3, 8 and 5, Harbaugh is more than happy to collect his millions of dollars while you kiss his rear end.
December 9th, 2019 at 4:50 PM ^
Ohio players with a chip on shoulder who were plan B guys for OSU for taking Texas players, are very undervalued to me... dantonio made a living on Ohio players passed on by OSU, and once Cinci and Kentucky started taking them, then MSU tanked, and Cinci and K have done well... these players would want absolutely nothing more than wanting to beat OSU.
December 9th, 2019 at 5:13 PM ^
Texas and the Florida schools need to get their shit together and keep their top in-state recruits away from Ohio State.
December 9th, 2019 at 5:16 PM ^
Go to Michigan where there are academic standards, you can earn a usable degree, and win 10 games.
Or go to OSU, Alabama, Clemson, etc. where you or someone else can take all your classes online, you may get a degree about which you know nothing, you can drive a Mercedes around campus (when you go there for parties, because all your classes on online), and you'll win 12 games. If you don't start as a freshman, enter the portal, claim bias, and be immediately eligible at a similar school.
For a lot of top athletes, the former is going to lose out to the latter. That's the reality of modern college football. Integrity has lost.
December 9th, 2019 at 7:23 PM ^
Damn, after reading that sign me up for the latter! That sounds awesome!
Plus the girls are hotter at those schools
December 9th, 2019 at 8:42 PM ^
That's cool and all, but I'd rather my alma mater have fewer degenerates, not more.
December 9th, 2019 at 5:24 PM ^
Why are people so freaked out about DT? We recruited 2 Top 75 DTs just last year. We usually only rotate 3-4 guys. Next year we will have Kemp, Dwumfor, Hinton and Smith. Hopefully with Hinton and Smith showing why they were heavily recruited.
December 9th, 2019 at 5:33 PM ^
Exhibit A: Wisconsin Game
Exhibit B: OSU
Exhibit C: Remember Alex Leatherwood and Najee Harris???
See also: what happens to DT depth in 2021 after Dwumfour and Kemp have left?
December 9th, 2019 at 6:00 PM ^
I’ve said it before, it’s the top end of the recruiting where OSU is whipping us. Getting composite top 75 guys is what separates us. They’re getting 8-10 of those guys a class, we’re getting 0-4.
December 9th, 2019 at 6:58 PM ^
Been a long while since I've commented on here. And this is just from my personal expectations. I thought when we got Harbaugh (and every single one of us wanted him) that we would start winning a lot more of these high level recruiting battles. By no means do I think Harbaugh needs to go, BUT, he needs to continue to mold this staff and that includes at the VERY LEAST Zordich. Everyone keeps saying Don Brown, but those backs are constantly out of position.
December 9th, 2019 at 8:44 PM ^
The fuck?
Mike Zordich is arguably the best position coach on our roster. Maybe Warinner.
December 9th, 2019 at 8:00 PM ^
Harbaugh junker at recruiting. I'd do much better.
December 9th, 2019 at 8:58 PM ^
9-3 program with a commensurate recruiting class. Barring elite player development, UM isn’t challenging for elite status in the next few years and isn’t threatening OSU. It’s disappointing to admit, but a reality in this environment of a handful of elite recruiting programs.
December 9th, 2019 at 9:28 PM ^
The poster that hinted Patterson and Muzzcuah might not be part of the class just went to the bottom on our commitment list and picked the two lowest ranked recruits that actually had football scholarships. Nothing credible has indicated that will not be part of the class.
December 9th, 2019 at 9:45 PM ^
Just another class that isn’t nearly good enough to compete for championships.
December 9th, 2019 at 9:58 PM ^
Hard to win games when you couldn't recruit an alcoholic to a bar.
December 9th, 2019 at 11:05 PM ^
Harbaugh's biggest recruiting issue is recruit retention (someone else mentioned this on the thread). He's been absolutely fine at recruiting quality players. Aubrey Solomon for example was a mid 4 star who shot up the rankings after every other school caught up to Michigan's eval on him.
If you look at all the top half of OSU's recruits for 2016 and 17, they're all either currently starting or in the NFL. Meanwhile of our ~15 best recruits for those two years, a significant number end up transferring. Again I'm not referring to recruits in general, but specifically top 200 recruits or 4 stars and above. OSU has a ton of recruits from Cali, Florida and Texas and their best recruits from those states rarely transfer back home. They stay at OSU and go to the league.
December 10th, 2019 at 9:17 AM ^
Top 200 is way different than top 50. If you look at the Ohio State roster it is chuck full of top 50 or top 75 kids. Our strongest spot was the interior of our O Line this season IMO, we have 3 top 75 players there. Ohio State has 3 top 50 players on their O line and next year will have 4 or 5 top 50 players there. Again, there can be exceptions, but the elite talent pays off over time.
Next season we will have 2 composite 5 stars on the roster. Ohio State could have 15. We'll have 6 or 7 top 75 players (Almost 5 stars in my mind), Ohio State will have 30+.
All 4 stars are not equal. If you roll out an O Line with the following ranked recruits(Composite): (Ours next season is Ruiz stays) 335, 47, 112, 365, 268 9 times out of 10 they're not going to be close to as good as an O Line that goes: 265, 53, 30, 24, 7 Ohio State's next season. And Ohio State has a phenom coming in at freshman who could start at LT right away, the #3 recruit in the nation, so they could feasibly start 4 5 stars and the #53 player. They'll have 2 five star receivers, a 5 star QB, and a TE who was #37 overall in the country. They have a 5 star APB who is ready to start. And there are a bunch of backups who are top 75 players too.
Their defense will feature 3 Five star starters on the D Line. A 5 star CB and a 5 star LB. A 5 star safety. The depth they have because of that elite recruiting is evident on Saturdays, when someone goes down, chances are the guy coming in was a top 50 recruit. We simply do not have anywhere near that.
December 10th, 2019 at 8:05 PM ^
Don't disagree with anything you're saying. My point is OSU retains their best recruits much better than we do. We have guys in line to start that end up transferring. Devin Asiasi, James Hudson, Kekoa Crawford, and Aubrey Solomon all come to mind. For reference I took a look at our '16 & '17 classes compared to OSUs.
Of the top 10 recruits from OSU's 2016 class, they had 1 player transfer, Keandre Jones. Meanwhile of Michigan's top 10, we had 5 transfer. Peters, Walker, etc.
Now let's look at 2017. OSU's top 5 recruits of the class are all starting. 2 of our top 5 transferred. Gets worse when you look at 4-stars and above. THREE 4-star players transferred from their 2017 class. compared to NINE of our 4-star players transferring. Crazy to think about.