It's very simple, not sure why people don't get this. Teams get a 3rd party to reach out to these kids, they don't do it themselves. To that point, they are not tampering.
Michigan is just bad at cheating. They brought kids during a time they weren't allowed to recruit. They had a guy stealing signs with video tape instead of just using the All-22 like everyone else.
Michigan is tampering right now as well and is doing it the right way.
Curious - are people willing to stick it out with Jim if he's suspended for a majority of the 2024 season + hurts recruiting every year with this NFL song and dance.
If Michigan goes 8-4 next year (I've seen the early over/under at 9 wins) do you feel differently?
I think I want him back no matter what, but it's also hard not to get caught up in the moment.
Michigan St. does actually have more young VERY wealthy alums than Michigan does. Even better for them, they live in state.
Michigan's default is Stephen Ross. MSU have 3 billionaire alums living in state along. Michigan has a lot of wealthy people living all over the country that don't give 2 you know whats about using their hard earned money on paying college athletes.
After watching Texas, Washington, and Bama this week, I just don't think we have the goods on offense to win it all. All 3 other teams have dynamic playmakers that get the ball in space all over the field. We are running last years offense with a much, much, much worse offensive line. We just have almost no ability to break big plays.
The exact same way they lost to TCU. Michigan is too hyped up/JJ tries to do too much and throws a pick 6/Michigan fumbles another punt/etc. There are a million way things could go wrong, it's football.
For whatever reason, it feels like Michigan has struggled much more against man coverage than zone (maybe I can't get the Illinois game out of my mind from last year). JJ seems way more comfortable picking out TE's/WRs over the middle in zone than zipping throws in man coverage.
I think this will be a good test, as I think we'll see more man coverage down the line.
I'm slightly bitter as well, but I try to think if the shoe was on the other foot. If we found out that OSU was stealing our signals for 15 years with guys at the 50 yard line of games, we'd be pretty annoyed by all of this as well.
The only thing Harbaugh dislikes more than Warde is the NCAA. Sitting in a 2 hour meeting asking questions on something he has know knowlege of? He wasn't showing up for that meeting, nor having any of his assistants.
Feels like a lot of fans are confident this is going to be a blow out, yet the Bill C line is only 19. For reference, last year it was 25.
This game is predicted to be a TD closer than the game LY.
I just have a bad feeling all the WR fumbles, bad punts, tipped INTs, missed FGs, etc. that have doomed MSU this year will be gone tomorrow night and Michigan will be in a game in the 2nd half. I hope I'm wrong!
Correct. I don't think Michigan has done anything wrong.
Also saying that Michigan is probably going to have to fire this guy. So the in game sign stealing will get worse/go away and it will be interesting to see if Michigan still has the same 2nd half performance the rest of the year.
We will learn a lot about this through the rest of the season. My guess is this dude was awesome at figuring out signals and spend the 1st half every week the last couple years doing just that. That is the reason Michigan comes up and smashes teams in the 3rd quarter - figure out signs in the 1st half, communicate at half, smash in the 3rd quarter.
If Michigan starts not dominating after half like they have the past few years, then I'll be wary they had a big advantage. If they keep kicking butt, we'll knot it wasnt a big deal. Last few years of games, half time and final scores.
-Michigan 17 Maryland 13; Michigan 34 Maryland 27
-Michigan 10, Indiana 10, Michigan 31 Indiana 10
-Michigan 16 Penn State 14, Michigan 41 Ohio State 17
#26 SP+ defense for having played Washington is pretty solid.
They are 3rd in the nation in 3rd down defense. @Alex - do you think that is just luck related or are they doing something on 3rd down (blitzing, etc.) that is really disrupting other teams?
The Big Ten, in their statement, said they have credible evidence. My guess is that Michigan had analyst or people connected to the program at these games, a team (Rutgers) thought signals were had, and we're able to prove that a person connected to Michigan was at one of their previous games.
This isn't a witch hunt if the Big Ten has credible evidence.
For those asking why Michigan was steal signals for terrible teams, it's because every CFB coach is incredibly paranoid at all times. They want every advantage they can get over every team.
This really sucks. If Michigan keeps winning, people will say it's because we're cheating. If we lose to PSU and OSU, or its close against MSU, people will say it's because we've been cheating since 2021 and can't anymore.
This is DUMB if Michigan gets caught for it. This is a rule that NOBODY breaks because it's so obvious and you can get any game film you want (unlike recruiting rules, etc.).
Michigan will be made an example of if true (vacated wins, etc.)
This is a game where it would be really nice for Michigan to score first. I was pretty impressed watching MSU vs. Iowa how well they ran the ball against that defense. Even with little threat from Noah Kim, they ran the ball for 5 yards a pop and Carter went for 110 on 20 carries.
If MSU scores early and can get into a mode where they grind out 4 and 5 yard runs with the occasional trick play/deep shot, that's how they stay in the game and start to make Michigan sweat.
If Michigan can get up early and make MSU throw the ball a bit more, that's how Michigan could run away with it.
This MSU team is way better than their record. Turnovers have KILLED them. Turnovers aren't random, but at the same time, will WRs fumble twice against Mich? I think we would take this team way more seriously if they had taken care of biz in those Iowa and Rutgers games.
I'm pretty nervous about this as well. Michigan seems to still have the same weak spots at LB that they had last year, with a much leakier secondary. I'm pretty worried that PSU on the road is going to be a shock to the system for our offense (PSU defense is insane) and our defense gives up 2-3 busts instead of just 1, and we lose a 21-17 game.
Hopefully Michigan is saving a few new wrinkles for Penn State. Casey is a good player, but PSU has 2 linebackers that are head and shoulders better than Casey.
That was a one time occurance though. There's a second scenario where OSU picks up the 4th down to Stover in the 2nd quarter, goes up 17-3, and never looks back.
These model simulate things 1000s of times to see how things playout. There are probably many times in this model where Marvin Harrison Jr. goes for 200 yards and OSU wins by 3.
Can't wait to go to the game on Saturday! Finally coming up to my neck of the woods again.
Rumor around here is that Taylor will play. He probably could have gone last weekend, but they wanted to save him for this game. I think he's a much better player than being given credit for in this preview - he's legit. It also sounds like their star linebacker Cody Lindenberg really wants to give it a go after being injured since fall camp, but its more likely they hold him out until after the bye next week.
Minnesota is amped for this game. Night game against a top ranked team - they've had this game circled all year. The Twins playoff game ends right before kick of this one. Root for the Astros because if the Twins win, the crowd is going be liquored up and ready to go. Or root for extra innings!
Weird things happen in Minneapolis (almost losing to the awful Mitch Leidner in 2015 - woof), but I expect a Michigan win. If Taylor and Linderberg play - it could be interesting. If they don't, I expect Michigan to cover the spread.
I worry this is the game where Michigan being 2nd to last in average plays per minute (behind Navy!) might bite them. Nebraska is also going to try to run as much clock as possible and limit possessions. The 7-6 game at half turns in a nail biter if Michigan loses was possesison to a fumble or tipped INT and all of a sudden is 13-7 mid way through the 3rd.
Michigan should/will still win, but I'd love to see them speed up a bit on offense. Create more possessions if possible and lower the variance.
You can't count of 4+ turnovers from Nebraska every game, especially now that Sims is out. If they just punt instead of turning the ball over, that's probably a 1 score game.
I expect Saturday to be a slog. Something like a 24-10 win.
I can't believe the spread in this game is up over 40 now. Michigan has shown their plan for these non-con games. With the clock rules and backups getting significant time, I don't see how Michigan covers unless its 42-0.
I love the Go Go offense - I'm of the opinion that UNLV is going to have a lot of success with it and it takes off around the lower portions of the Group of 5.
It's essentially a twist on triple options (not knowing where the ball is going), with tempo and deep shots (Howard had a TON in their upset of UNLV) which create high variance for a less talented team - i.e. exactly what you want.
I wish Michigan played them in game 1, because it will be a pain to prepare for this week. Like Alex said, Michigan has too much talent for them to be beaten by it, but I expect UNLV to put up points this week. ESPECIALLY if Moore and Johnson are still out.
I love what's happening at Colorado - it's great for the sport. Colorado has been down for a decade now and it's a fun team to have back in the picture.
We need more Deion's and less Dabo's, in my opinion.
I'm with you on Notre Dame. Hartman is such a massive upgrade for them and now their 3 tough games don't look quite as tough. Clemson (woof), Ohio State at home, and USC at home (who may give up 40+ point to any team with a pulse).
These clips made me remember how much we played with fire last year against average teams. Down to Maryland deep into the 2nd quarter. Down to Indiana in the middle of the 3rd quarters. Down to Rutgers (!!) in the 3rd quarter. And obviously down to Illinois deep into the 4th.
Obviously Michigan was outplaying the competition in most of these games, but had trouble puting points on the board. Michigan was lucky not to stumble into the INT/Fumble/Muffed Punt that happens in college football to make the collar even tighter.
Michigan needs to do a better job of getting out early this year. Especially with the new running clock.
You're doing your daughter a disservice if you're not letting her explore that opportunity. I don't like MSU from a sports rilvalry perspecitve, but it's still a good school. If she were to get significant scholarships that took a burden off you as a parent or off her future student loans, wouldn't that be worth it?
How much $$ have you contributed to Michigan's NIL funds? I don't think Michigan has as much NIL money to throw around as people think. Michigan doesn't have the same level of boosters as other big programs. Michigan fans also like to talk a lot, but don't seem to contribute that much $$ to the athletics programs.
All just my 2 cents based on a friend who works in fundraising.
Kick Returns you just pick fast guys and tell them to run fast, but usually just call fair catch. Probably the least important "position" in football.
Punter Return on the other hand, is WAY more important. Less so making big plays on returns, but knowing when to call fair catch, judging balls and getting to them to maintain field position, and most importantly, not casuing a game changing turnover.
Would be VERY surprised to see a true freshman returning punts.
I think they would love to throw one of those guys out there to see what they can help with on offense, but would be a MAJOR downgrade on knowing what to do on defense.
There is a scenario where a few very minor things go Michigan's way and this article is very different after 2 massive road wins. Kobe's development into an NBA guard! Dug the future at PG! Dickinson playing his butt off over the past 5-6 games!
Instead it's looking at the negatives, which is definitely the 4 spot.
Would also argue that Kobe's contribution this year is very different than Houstan/Moussa last year.
The advantage of having 2 of your hardest games of the season in your last 2 :). Like others have said, the #s say its likely that they lose both and finish 7th or 8th in the league.
With that said, it's great that these games are the last 2 because we're playing our best basketball right now.
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The best coaches come up through the lower ranks. It's not like Football where top teams grab other high D-1 coaches.
Danny Hurley was at Wagner and Rhode Island over a decade before Uconn.
Jay Wright coached at Hofstra for nearly a decade before hired at Villanova.
Bill Self 7 years at Oral Roberts and Tulsa before Illinois.
Devries, Abdur-Rahim, Medved, etc. could all be the next Hurley, Wright, Self. These guys have all proved they can build winning programs.
It's very simple, not sure why people don't get this. Teams get a 3rd party to reach out to these kids, they don't do it themselves. To that point, they are not tampering.
Michigan is just bad at cheating. They brought kids during a time they weren't allowed to recruit. They had a guy stealing signs with video tape instead of just using the All-22 like everyone else.
Michigan is tampering right now as well and is doing it the right way.
Curious - are people willing to stick it out with Jim if he's suspended for a majority of the 2024 season + hurts recruiting every year with this NFL song and dance.
If Michigan goes 8-4 next year (I've seen the early over/under at 9 wins) do you feel differently?
I think I want him back no matter what, but it's also hard not to get caught up in the moment.
Michigan St. does actually have more young VERY wealthy alums than Michigan does. Even better for them, they live in state.
Michigan's default is Stephen Ross. MSU have 3 billionaire alums living in state along. Michigan has a lot of wealthy people living all over the country that don't give 2 you know whats about using their hard earned money on paying college athletes.
Billionaire mortages guys? They'll pay.
Thanks for posting! I just donated.
I’ve heard that Edwards might enter the portal while getting draft feedback. Hard to blame him given how he’s been used this year.
He would but up insane stats in Oregons offense.
After watching Texas, Washington, and Bama this week, I just don't think we have the goods on offense to win it all. All 3 other teams have dynamic playmakers that get the ball in space all over the field. We are running last years offense with a much, much, much worse offensive line. We just have almost no ability to break big plays.
The exact same way they lost to TCU. Michigan is too hyped up/JJ tries to do too much and throws a pick 6/Michigan fumbles another punt/etc. There are a million way things could go wrong, it's football.
For whatever reason, it feels like Michigan has struggled much more against man coverage than zone (maybe I can't get the Illinois game out of my mind from last year). JJ seems way more comfortable picking out TE's/WRs over the middle in zone than zipping throws in man coverage.
I think this will be a good test, as I think we'll see more man coverage down the line.
Depth going to be challenged early. With JL out to start the season as well, down to 9 available players.
I'm slightly bitter as well, but I try to think if the shoe was on the other foot. If we found out that OSU was stealing our signals for 15 years with guys at the 50 yard line of games, we'd be pretty annoyed by all of this as well.
The only thing Harbaugh dislikes more than Warde is the NCAA. Sitting in a 2 hour meeting asking questions on something he has know knowlege of? He wasn't showing up for that meeting, nor having any of his assistants.
Feels like a lot of fans are confident this is going to be a blow out, yet the Bill C line is only 19. For reference, last year it was 25.
This game is predicted to be a TD closer than the game LY.
I just have a bad feeling all the WR fumbles, bad punts, tipped INTs, missed FGs, etc. that have doomed MSU this year will be gone tomorrow night and Michigan will be in a game in the 2nd half. I hope I'm wrong!
Correct. I don't think Michigan has done anything wrong.
Also saying that Michigan is probably going to have to fire this guy. So the in game sign stealing will get worse/go away and it will be interesting to see if Michigan still has the same 2nd half performance the rest of the year.
We will learn a lot about this through the rest of the season. My guess is this dude was awesome at figuring out signals and spend the 1st half every week the last couple years doing just that. That is the reason Michigan comes up and smashes teams in the 3rd quarter - figure out signs in the 1st half, communicate at half, smash in the 3rd quarter.
If Michigan starts not dominating after half like they have the past few years, then I'll be wary they had a big advantage. If they keep kicking butt, we'll knot it wasnt a big deal. Last few years of games, half time and final scores.
-Michigan 17 Maryland 13; Michigan 34 Maryland 27
-Michigan 10, Indiana 10, Michigan 31 Indiana 10
-Michigan 16 Penn State 14, Michigan 41 Ohio State 17
-Michigan 13 MSU 7; Michigan 29 Msu 7
-Michigan 14 Rutgers 17; Michigan 52 Rutgers 17
-Michigan 17 OSU 20, Michigan 45 OSU 23
-Michigan
#26 SP+ defense for having played Washington is pretty solid.
They are 3rd in the nation in 3rd down defense. @Alex - do you think that is just luck related or are they doing something on 3rd down (blitzing, etc.) that is really disrupting other teams?
Yup. Goodbye National Championship hopes
The Big Ten, in their statement, said they have credible evidence. My guess is that Michigan had analyst or people connected to the program at these games, a team (Rutgers) thought signals were had, and we're able to prove that a person connected to Michigan was at one of their previous games.
This isn't a witch hunt if the Big Ten has credible evidence.
For those asking why Michigan was steal signals for terrible teams, it's because every CFB coach is incredibly paranoid at all times. They want every advantage they can get over every team.
This really sucks. If Michigan keeps winning, people will say it's because we're cheating. If we lose to PSU and OSU, or its close against MSU, people will say it's because we've been cheating since 2021 and can't anymore.
It's not the sigh stealing that's the problem here. It's sending analysts to other teams game, which NOBODY does.
This is DUMB if Michigan gets caught for it. This is a rule that NOBODY breaks because it's so obvious and you can get any game film you want (unlike recruiting rules, etc.).
Michigan will be made an example of if true (vacated wins, etc.)
It's illegal to use a camera/iPhone to record those signs. That is the rumor.
This is a game where it would be really nice for Michigan to score first. I was pretty impressed watching MSU vs. Iowa how well they ran the ball against that defense. Even with little threat from Noah Kim, they ran the ball for 5 yards a pop and Carter went for 110 on 20 carries.
If MSU scores early and can get into a mode where they grind out 4 and 5 yard runs with the occasional trick play/deep shot, that's how they stay in the game and start to make Michigan sweat.
If Michigan can get up early and make MSU throw the ball a bit more, that's how Michigan could run away with it.
This MSU team is way better than their record. Turnovers have KILLED them. Turnovers aren't random, but at the same time, will WRs fumble twice against Mich? I think we would take this team way more seriously if they had taken care of biz in those Iowa and Rutgers games.
I'm pretty nervous about this as well. Michigan seems to still have the same weak spots at LB that they had last year, with a much leakier secondary. I'm pretty worried that PSU on the road is going to be a shock to the system for our offense (PSU defense is insane) and our defense gives up 2-3 busts instead of just 1, and we lose a 21-17 game.
Hopefully Michigan is saving a few new wrinkles for Penn State. Casey is a good player, but PSU has 2 linebackers that are head and shoulders better than Casey.
That was a one time occurance though. There's a second scenario where OSU picks up the 4th down to Stover in the 2nd quarter, goes up 17-3, and never looks back.
These model simulate things 1000s of times to see how things playout. There are probably many times in this model where Marvin Harrison Jr. goes for 200 yards and OSU wins by 3.
Can't wait to go to the game on Saturday! Finally coming up to my neck of the woods again.
Rumor around here is that Taylor will play. He probably could have gone last weekend, but they wanted to save him for this game. I think he's a much better player than being given credit for in this preview - he's legit. It also sounds like their star linebacker Cody Lindenberg really wants to give it a go after being injured since fall camp, but its more likely they hold him out until after the bye next week.
Minnesota is amped for this game. Night game against a top ranked team - they've had this game circled all year. The Twins playoff game ends right before kick of this one. Root for the Astros because if the Twins win, the crowd is going be liquored up and ready to go. Or root for extra innings!
Weird things happen in Minneapolis (almost losing to the awful Mitch Leidner in 2015 - woof), but I expect a Michigan win. If Taylor and Linderberg play - it could be interesting. If they don't, I expect Michigan to cover the spread.
Go Blue!
I worry this is the game where Michigan being 2nd to last in average plays per minute (behind Navy!) might bite them. Nebraska is also going to try to run as much clock as possible and limit possessions. The 7-6 game at half turns in a nail biter if Michigan loses was possesison to a fumble or tipped INT and all of a sudden is 13-7 mid way through the 3rd.
Michigan should/will still win, but I'd love to see them speed up a bit on offense. Create more possessions if possible and lower the variance.
You can't count of 4+ turnovers from Nebraska every game, especially now that Sims is out. If they just punt instead of turning the ball over, that's probably a 1 score game.
I expect Saturday to be a slog. Something like a 24-10 win.
This is the first week since 2000 with this many match-ups of 3-0 teams or better. This is the best week of college football in a LONG time!
I can't believe the spread in this game is up over 40 now. Michigan has shown their plan for these non-con games. With the clock rules and backups getting significant time, I don't see how Michigan covers unless its 42-0.
I love the Go Go offense - I'm of the opinion that UNLV is going to have a lot of success with it and it takes off around the lower portions of the Group of 5.
It's essentially a twist on triple options (not knowing where the ball is going), with tempo and deep shots (Howard had a TON in their upset of UNLV) which create high variance for a less talented team - i.e. exactly what you want.
I wish Michigan played them in game 1, because it will be a pain to prepare for this week. Like Alex said, Michigan has too much talent for them to be beaten by it, but I expect UNLV to put up points this week. ESPECIALLY if Moore and Johnson are still out.
I love what's happening at Colorado - it's great for the sport. Colorado has been down for a decade now and it's a fun team to have back in the picture.
We need more Deion's and less Dabo's, in my opinion.
I'm with you on Notre Dame. Hartman is such a massive upgrade for them and now their 3 tough games don't look quite as tough. Clemson (woof), Ohio State at home, and USC at home (who may give up 40+ point to any team with a pulse).
Life is more than Michigan football. A party at Founders sounds amazing. Make memories with your close friend.
The Michigan game can be rewatched this evening.
LOL - that's fair. I got that rumor from the 247 message board (not from an insider so I think it's okay to bring here?)
Rumor is Rod Moore tore his meniscus and will be out a while
Any world on who is playing Nickel with Sainristill moving to CB?
These clips made me remember how much we played with fire last year against average teams. Down to Maryland deep into the 2nd quarter. Down to Indiana in the middle of the 3rd quarters. Down to Rutgers (!!) in the 3rd quarter. And obviously down to Illinois deep into the 4th.
Obviously Michigan was outplaying the competition in most of these games, but had trouble puting points on the board. Michigan was lucky not to stumble into the INT/Fumble/Muffed Punt that happens in college football to make the collar even tighter.
Michigan needs to do a better job of getting out early this year. Especially with the new running clock.
MSU will be on Peacock 2 of 3 weeks, both of which are pretty big games. Washington and Iowa are both Peacock games for them.
The beauty of living in the central time zone (I'm in MN). College Football kicks off at 11am each week!
You're doing your daughter a disservice if you're not letting her explore that opportunity. I don't like MSU from a sports rilvalry perspecitve, but it's still a good school. If she were to get significant scholarships that took a burden off you as a parent or off her future student loans, wouldn't that be worth it?
Easy to forget how close we were to losing that Illinois game last year. Gash made that massive 4th down catch to keep us alive.
We're really going to miss Moody if we get in a game like that again this fall. When we got to field goal range at the end, I knew we were okay.
How much $$ have you contributed to Michigan's NIL funds? I don't think Michigan has as much NIL money to throw around as people think. Michigan doesn't have the same level of boosters as other big programs. Michigan fans also like to talk a lot, but don't seem to contribute that much $$ to the athletics programs.
All just my 2 cents based on a friend who works in fundraising.
Lions loved Gibbs and took him at 12 because the Patriots were going to take him at 14.
Kick Returns you just pick fast guys and tell them to run fast, but usually just call fair catch. Probably the least important "position" in football.
Punter Return on the other hand, is WAY more important. Less so making big plays on returns, but knowing when to call fair catch, judging balls and getting to them to maintain field position, and most importantly, not casuing a game changing turnover.
Would be VERY surprised to see a true freshman returning punts.
Always disappointing when guys we like move on, but for the best when guys like him and Moten transfer. It means the young guys are coming up.
Michigan still needs to make ~8-10 more moves (exits out) before fall camp.
Michigan needs another big WR class this year. Down to 7 scholarship WRs
Some big moves in the net last night for teams that won. Apparently these neutral court wins can really move things. Let's get a win today!
I think they would love to throw one of those guys out there to see what they can help with on offense, but would be a MAJOR downgrade on knowing what to do on defense.
There is a scenario where a few very minor things go Michigan's way and this article is very different after 2 massive road wins. Kobe's development into an NBA guard! Dug the future at PG! Dickinson playing his butt off over the past 5-6 games!
Instead it's looking at the negatives, which is definitely the 4 spot.
Would also argue that Kobe's contribution this year is very different than Houstan/Moussa last year.
The advantage of having 2 of your hardest games of the season in your last 2 :). Like others have said, the #s say its likely that they lose both and finish 7th or 8th in the league.
With that said, it's great that these games are the last 2 because we're playing our best basketball right now.