PSA: Get your flu shots

Submitted by Gameboy on December 18th, 2019 at 2:24 PM

I wish Brian a speedy recovery, but he also serves as a great reminder for rest of us to get flu shots. I got mine and it is not too late.

Bando Calrissian

December 18th, 2019 at 4:10 PM ^

Or us anti-anti-vaxxers are pretty concerned that the conspiracy theories, insecurities, and junk science of anti-vaxxers are a legitimate public health concern that has an actual impact on others' very survival.

These people need to be told, in no explicit terms, as many times as necessary, that their beliefs are an imminent danger to others.

Bodogblog

December 19th, 2019 at 9:16 AM ^

With heavy emphasis on talking down to people. 

I mean 

"It's threads like these that remind me that MGoBlog exists in some weird bubble of the fanbase that veers... unintelligent."  - Bando, later in this thread 

 

lol 

You are the exact model I'm talking about.  Maybe 2% of the monumental energy you give to this is because you actually give a shit about the health of others.  98% is jumping on an easy target so that you can feel superior to others.  They know this, so they didn't give a shit about what you say.  And who can blame them?  Believe a conspiracy or a prick?  The anti-vaxxer dilemma. 

Bando Calrissian

December 18th, 2019 at 3:54 PM ^

It's threads like these that remind me that MGoBlog exists in some weird bubble of the fanbase that veers... unintelligent.

Getting a flu shot does not mean you will not get the flu. It protects you from a number of strains thought to be most prevalent in any given year. You may get another strain.

The flu shot is not dangerous. Nor does it contain anything that will give you the flu.

People with a variety of health issues, from immunodeficiencies to folks on transplant lists to others with medical conditions that make them more susceptible to illness need you to be fully immunized. Your stubbornness and/or ignorance could kill them.

It takes two seconds at any pharmacy. Your insurance covers it. It takes virtually no effort. Stop being stupid.

FoCoManiax

December 18th, 2019 at 6:22 PM ^

I wish the answer to the school question was immunizations are a requirement for attendance. Enough harder to prevent troubles/risks to deal with at schools these days

Denver is presently dealing with a measles exposure issue for 100's of people due to some unvaccinated children passing through the airport and ending up at the children's hospital. Link

mgobaran

December 18th, 2019 at 4:13 PM ^

Not against anyone getting a flu shot.

 

BUT!!

  • I am afraid of needles and avoid them at all costs, regardless of how silly that sounds
  • I could use a week vacation from work and the 15 lb crash diet tbh

MichiganStan

December 18th, 2019 at 4:15 PM ^

Look at me guys. Im so smart I got the flu shot and you antivaxxer idiots are dumb. All one of you antivaxxers here are ruining the world. Again, Im so intelligent because Im vaccinated, I got a flu shot, and I watch the news. I know all the talking points and keywords because I watch the news. Goodbye Im now off the other blogs to tell antivaxxers how dumb they are everyday. Antivaxxer, antivaxxer, antivaxxer.

 

PS Don't forget to pray to net neutrality gods or else the internet will end

WGoNerd

December 18th, 2019 at 5:29 PM ^

It's still much to early to tell, we're only just now REALLY getting into flu season. Last season was actually unusually high in effectiveness (almost 50%) so the law of averages WOULD suggest the number to dip back down some.

You are correct however that it's better than nothing. Even if you contract a strain of the flu that was not in the shot, you'll typically have less severe symptoms and a shorter length of illness vs. people with the same strain that didn't get the shot.

LSAClassOf2000

December 18th, 2019 at 4:35 PM ^

I would like to add that whatever viral respiratory thing is going around right now......a classic. My daughter was out of school almost a week before Thanksgiving, and then my wife and I got it after the holiday and we're both just getting over it. I was off sick much of last week. 

Building_7_Free_Fall

December 18th, 2019 at 4:50 PM ^

I was advised by my doctor that I now qualify for free flu shots based on my 60+ age.  This is the same doctor who argues against my daily multivitamin habit as unnecessary.  In general, his recommendations are excellent: good nutrition, good sleep, good exercise, and don't give a shit about the small stuff.  The man walks the walk--looks to be about 70 and still plays hockey.  Anyway, I said no, that I'd just keep eating my carrots.  He nodded okay.

I last got the flu in 2013 when I was training for a marathon and got too physically depleted from tour-de-force weekend runs during the winter flu season.  I can't remember the previous time--it's been decades.

A couple of points here.

1. I've never had a flu shot and won't be getting one this year.  I don't expect to get the flu either.  I don't expect to catch a cold.  As I've gotten older I've gotten less stupid about (some) things.  The focus now is on making the body a mighty fortress against these critters trying to bring me down.

I believe that an average person without any severe genetic disadvantages should view getting the flu, or even multiple colds, as an indication they're doing something wrong.  Are you loading up on vegetables and fruits, every day, or eating processed shit every day?  Getting up in the morning refreshed or exhausted?  What about exercise?

If a person can figure out how to stay healthy, consistently, then that person will likely be enjoying a happier life in general.  And there's nothing wrong with that.

2.  I find that people on both sides of the issue make a lot of assumptions, and I personally don't have enough information to understand the health risks of all these vaccines.  The benefits of taking vaccines that can prevent widespread death, deformation, etc. are clear enough to be justified.  For the flu vaccine, I think it's more case by case.

These flu vaccines, from my understanding from way back, need to be mass-produced and stockpiled so far in advance of flu season that considerable guesswork is involved in picking the strains to include.  Often, the guesses go wrong and the vaccine is ineffective.

People often take the position that "science" is on the side of the vaccines.  Well, science is a process of discovery that takes us from wrong, through less-wrong, and eventually to right.  Do scientists currently have a good enough understanding of the human body, and all its genetic differences, to understand the impacts of vaccines?  Do they consider all of the components in a vaccine?  Have the studies been done in an unbiased way, or have they been influenced by drug companies?  Does the FDA really have our back, or are they revolving-dooring us?

On the other side, you've got people who won't trust anything coming out of the mouth or pen of a government or corporation.

And on "herd immunity," if this is something a person takes seriously then they should stop getting sick and spreading their germs around.  Eat the carrots.  See number 1.

3.  I think a lot of it comes down to whether or not a person wants to participate in a grand science experiment being run by our government and our corporations.  We can choose to consume things, as much as possible, that are consistent with what our species consumed as we evolved.  If, instead, a person goes with the flow and does the pesticides, chemicals, and yes vaccines, then they are agreeing to be a guinea pig in multiple experiments whose outcomes won't be known for decades.

 

ijohnb

December 18th, 2019 at 5:06 PM ^

Oh man.  This is way, WAY too thoughtful and circumspect.  If enough people see this, you are going to feel the full wrath of the M-Go-Scientists.  I bid you a safe voyage through these waters.

Building_7_Free_Fall

December 18th, 2019 at 8:07 PM ^

Hey, scientific-minded people are MY people.  I've been fortunate to work as an engineer among many people of science, good independent thinkers all.  People, who, if you asserted some new fact, would not simply dismiss it immediately as nonsense, but would instead respond with, "why?", whereupon a rational discussion would ensue.

On the other hand, I've been in many discussions with people who claim to be people of science (e.g., at March for Science events), who are anything but.

All of us practice "science" to some extent, as we build and maintain our internal models of the external world.  When new, solid, and abundant information presents itself that conflicts with our internal model, what do we do?  Do we modify our internal model as a good scientist would?  Or do we treat the model as a read-only device, incapable of being upgraded, and reject the information out of hand?

What seems to stop a lot of people from taking in new information is the belief that the work investment required in evaluating the new information is unlikely to be rewarded with something worthwhile.  This was my hang-up for a long time.  Specifically, my unfounded assumption turned out to be wrong that the mainstream media would report the most egregious abuses of government power (Pulitzer Prize be damned). 

This is what finally helped me clear out the ossification:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK2vgi82f_c

Building_7_Free_Fall

December 19th, 2019 at 1:23 PM ^

The term, 9/11 Truther, is a little bit ambiguous, don't you think?  I mean, what's so bad about wanting to know the truth about something?  I've seen it written with quotes in the past and I think that's more effective:

     9/11 "Truther"

But why not just use Conspiracy Theorist?  So much work has gone into weaponizing this term already, and its intended meaning is universally understood by the people that matter.  Plus, it's unsurpassed at evoking the revulsion necessary to keep even otherwise curious people away from the evidence.

snarling wolverine

December 18th, 2019 at 5:22 PM ^

 I don't expect to get the flu either.  I don't expect to catch a cold. 

Here's the thing: no one actually expects to get sick.  It catches you by surprise.  Getting sick is not some sort of physical or moral failing on your part.  It's just something that happens.

A flu shot is basically cheap insurance against getting it.  They aren't perfect but almost certainly reduce your chances of catching the flu, while they normally give little to no side effect.  Presented with this option, why would you turn it down?

Building_7_Free_Fall

December 18th, 2019 at 8:44 PM ^

I have been keeping a log of my running miles for many years.  A few years ago I also began to track my hours of sleep (horizontal, eyes closed), and number of beers per day.  In this document I use blood red to indicate those days where running miles were affected by being sick (really, I just wanted to have an excuse for the low numbers).  The last date to see the red was October 23, 2017. 

So, my expectations of good health are based on extrapolating recent history.  But, as you say, there are no guarantees here.

In my experience, getting sick in the past usually had everything to do with a failing on my part.  The number 1 cause was inadequate sleep.  Number 2 was beer.

As you get older, you need more discipline to keep the system on track, especially if you want to be a runner.  I used to sometimes fall into a pattern where I'd be too tired to run (sleep and/or beer), which would cause poor sleep the next night (due to no exercise), tiredness and no running the next day, spiraling down and down.  Oftentimes the final punch line would be a cold (and more not running).

Fixing the sleep and alcohol made all the difference.  I have to believe this situation is not unique.

WGoNerd

December 18th, 2019 at 5:32 PM ^

These flu vaccines, from my understanding from way back, need to be mass-produced and stockpiled so far in advance of flu season that considerable guesswork is involved in picking the strains to include.  Often, the guesses go wrong and the vaccine is ineffective.

 

The flu vaccine is developed early but it's not blind guesswork. Scientists study the flu season in Australia, since their winter is during our summer and therefore so is their flu season, and how the disease morphs there in order to determine how to build our shot.

thethirdcoast

December 19th, 2019 at 1:28 PM ^

Scientists study the flu season in Australia, since their winter is during our summer and therefore so is their flu season, and how the disease morphs there in order to determine how to build our shot.

Because a country that is literally on the other side of the planet is going to be a terrific model that correlates to the US with a 0.999999 confidence level.

Building_7_Free_Fall

December 18th, 2019 at 8:24 PM ^

No, I mean by eating healthy things that grow in the dirt or water and healthy things that eat healthy things that grow in the dirt or water.  I hope "healthy" is clear from context.

I wasn't trying to imply that we should subject the population to prolonged periods of poor food/water consumption, poor shelter and/or clothing in extreme weather conditions, and combat against fierce beasts using primitive weaponry.

mtzlblk

December 19th, 2019 at 8:49 AM ^

It's not just about you..........

I love they you actually admit that your understanding is from "way back"

If you really want to think of yourself as even remotely intelligent or understanding of scientific concepts, I would bid you avail yourself off more recent information and also consider that at 60+ you might be endangering others around you who can't get vaccinated and think about someone besides yourself.

I'm not planning on getting in a car accident next year, however I still have insurance on my car.

Building_7_Free_Fall

December 19th, 2019 at 2:18 PM ^

I guess what I wrote wasn't clear--allow me to clarify.

First of all, we can agree that the objective here is to avoid getting the flu, right?

The main point of what I wrote is to demonstrate that there is an alternative approach to avoid getting the flu that doesn't require a flu shot.  This approach even works at preventing colds too.  It's just one data point, based on my recent history, but still it's not exactly a revolutionary idea.

In approximately 30 years I have gotten the flu once, and this was caused by a specific, known lifestyle choice (winter marathon training), that is easily avoided.  So, aside from that one blip, the effectiveness of this approach has been 100%.

With recent tweaks to the approach, I have not even gotten a cold over the past 2 years.

The reason that this is not about me, is that this approach is already implemented by many people, and can be implemented by all.  It's simple: just be consistently great at your nutrition, your sleep, and your exercise.  In other words, do what your doctor is probably already telling you to do.

I find it remarkable that so few of us are writing about this.  It's just the American way I guess: "give me a pill doc," rather than dealing with lifestyle choices.  Substitute "flu shot" for "pill" and it's all the same thing.

My further point is that anyone who criticizes people for not getting a flu shot should also be criticizing people for not optimizing their health through nutrition, sleep, and exercise, etc.  The flu shots are never 100% effective.  Optimized immune systems throughout society are absolutely necessary to minimize the incidence of contagious diseases.  While I wrote that the decision to get a flu shot should be decided on a case-by-case basis, the decision to take action to avoid the flu should be taken by all.

As far as my understanding being from "way back," this was in regards to the narrow topic of the vaccine manufacturing.  This "way back" understanding was supported by the person who responded, so there's no reason to go any further there.

The larger, third paragraph is out in the weeds somewhere, so nothing worth responding to there.  Same with the last paragraph.

RealElonMusk

December 18th, 2019 at 4:55 PM ^

Not afraid of needles or an innoculation- but,  you are certainly inducing foreign substances into your body and there is enough negative side effect risk that there is a national fund that reimburses for negative events.

The flu vaccine is about 30% likely to be effective any given year so your chances of protection with a flu shot aren't great.

I found Tamiflu very effective in flu treatment so my take is that it's better to skip the flu shot and be aggressive in treating the flu if you get it.

Everyone has their own risk/reward view and if you have a weakened immune system it seems like the flu shot makes more sense.

jabberwock

December 18th, 2019 at 6:29 PM ^

Not necessarily flu related but your comment about foreign substances jogs my memory of my neighbor.

Super health nut, body is a temple, etc. a bit fixed on water.  He's got multiple, multiple layers of treatment, filtration etc. before a drop of precious liquid enters his body.

i passed him on the road the other day walking the dog and there he is burning a small pile of  leaves at the end of his drive (allowed in our neighborhood) with cars going by putting up dust clouds (of the chemical we put on the roads to keep the dust down!)

You'd think my neighbor MUST be wearing a CDC approved haz-mat suit & gas mask but  . . . NOPE!  Nothing.  Just breathing it all in.

Our air (& water) quality in this country is plummeting, but people fixate on the tiniest of exposures in a once a year medical treatment.