Post Rutgers Basketball Snowflakes
This feels like the 2013 Hoke season where the carpet is about to be ripped out under us. Next year is make or break for Juwan.
Yeah every team has holes though. No team in the big ten is complete. And you can have a complete non-factor on the floor and still make the tournament.
Even at the 4, you've gone from multi-year starter Livers to one year of Diabate and one year of Williams/Tschetter. And at the same time losing Brandon Johns. So I think the solution is probably roster continuity again. Tschetter, Williams, and Jace all improve, maybe Khayat can pitch in, then play Reed 20 min a game there all season next year. Williams regressed it what was supposed to be a break out year, and Tschetter was thrown in there probably 2 years too early. He was never supposed to contribute until he was in his 3rd-5th year on campus.
March 10th, 2023 at 12:30 PM ^
Next year could be like Scott Frosts last year or Harbaughs year after covid. We are 5 buckets form an entirely different season but also a couple buckets from taking last place in the MAC.
Ive never seen a team without a backup PG or SG that is just mind boggling. Not a bad back up at those positions but rather NO BACKUP.
Juwan's job may not be in jeopardy next year but make no mistake its the biggest season of his career next year.
It's college basketball in 2023. Roster turnover happens with every team. And every team is young.
That's not a unique Michigan problem and I wish Michigan fans would stop using it as an excuse.
Every team is not ranked in the 300s in returning minutes
Stop using facts. They are useless an hour after a bad game.
If not the coach, who is responsible for managing the roster?
But in today's college game you are not typically going to have much roster continuity, especially if you pursue top 100 or higher players. They will play great and leave early, they won't play great and still leave early or they'll transfer because they think the situation is their problem, not them.
The roster continuity Michigan has had is much worse than most. They've had back to back years with the least experience returning in the big ten based on what I'm seeing on Torvik. Kenpom has better numbers but I don't have a subscription. Maybe someone else can chime in on where they've ranked during Juwan's tenure in terms of returning production. The last 2 years they are very low. Some of that is due to a coaching transition that cost you: Johns, Nunez, DeJulius, Castleton, Bajema. Zeb possibly too.
Has Juwan made roster management mistakes? Yeah absolutely. But the roster flux 1. isn't normal and 2. isn't 100% under his control
Yes the only solution go forward is 5'10 point guards. Or guys who the NBA will laugh at like AJ Hoggard.
Perfect.
Rutgers couldn’t score the last few games and 60 pts is like a windfall for them.
Pathetic team effort today and the coach’s kid couldn’t be bothered to do what 3rd graders do - box out the FT shooter.
Juwan should be embarrassed at what he’s done to the program and be on the hot seat for this performance
Juwan gets another year. The COVID season with winning the conference and snagging a one seed, coming within inches of the Final Four bought him some runway, but he’s got a lot of results working against him right now.
I don’t know how you fix the issues plaguing the team. Youth is an issue, but it shouldn’t be this much of an issue. The problems go deeper than that.
This honestly feels like watching Scott Frost’s Nebraska team. Minus a huge mental hurdle that the entire program clearly needs to overcome, it’s hard to expect results that will be any different.
If Jett, Kobe and Hunter all decide to peace out, the program could truly bottom out next year.
His ass was carried by Beilein guys and Chaundee Brown. UCLA loss was embarrassing because he couldn't draw up a single good play in five attempts at the end and blew the easiest final four path he would ever have. Next year will be worse. Just cut the cord and start year zero next year instead of 2024
Didn’t Franz airball a wide open 3 to end that game? How was that Juwan’s fault?
It wasn’t a terrible shot but we needed 2 to tie and Wagner had been a mess that entire tournament.
Why are you drawing up 3's for a career 30% three point shooter in the biggest moment of the season?
March 10th, 2023 at 12:35 PM ^
Fun Fact
So our biggest issue this year has been final shots to win games right? Kobe Bufkin is 73% at the rim.
All those shot clock shut off situations and we arent using those numbers to dictate what we do? Kobe you will take this to the hole going left and the team will attack the rim on the shot. THERE IS NO PASSING YOU WILL TAKE THIS SHOT!
What Beilein guys?
Dickinson? Wagner? Mike Smith? (All of those were key players in '20-'21.)
You're not the only person flogging this idea.
Respectfully, that's a load of crap. Yes, Livers was instrumental to the team. But so was Mike Smith, Chaundee Brown, Franz Wagner (who may have been recruited by Beilein but he was never coached by Beilein), and HD. All of them were Juwan's guys, and all of them were crucial for winning the conference and playing as well as they did.
I don't know if Juwan can ever re-capture what he did two years ago, but that season was not successful solely because of what remained of Beilein's guys.
FFS that was pitiful.
The announcers cracked me up at the end -- "JH cannot inject a sense of urgency in the players."
Ummmm... motivation is something coaches do.
Somehow this will be blamed on Warde?
Warde hired a guy with zero head coaching experience for a program that made 2 final fours in the previous 7 years. It was a flat out stupid hire. So yeah, Warde is a dumbass and deserves part of the blame for basketball's demise.
There are going to be a lot of stupid comments thrown around on this blog about the basketball team, but congratulations for locking in the stupidest comment of the day.
Here's a trophy for you:
Did you forget when Beilein left? He left in the 2nd week of May, a a solid month and a half after the Basketball coaching carousel happened.
There were no obviously good/available candidates when Beilein left.
And when you look at the other coaches hired that year (but not on the list of good candidates), it's a whole lot of meh.
Steve Alford who was meh at Iowa/NewMexico and fired from UCLA. Mike Anderson who was fired at Missouri and Arkansas. Kyle Smith has been meh for Washington State, and TJ Otzelberger could be a good coach, but he was 29-30 before Iowa State grabbed him (his whole body of work is still to be determined).
Hiring Juwan in May of 2019 was not the problem
You're a Lions fan so I don't expect you to be able to be familiar with what a good coach looks like, but here's a clue: usually they have a track record to go off of. At this point it's impossible to say who would have been the best choice, but it's the AD's job to identify a diamond in the rough when there aren't obvious choices. Any Joe Shmoe could do that for a whole lot less than Michigan is paying Warde. Not to mention, Warde should have been in good enough contact with Beilein to not let that situation happen in the first place. We could have had Nate Oats if Warde hadn't been asleep at the wheel.
Honestly what the fuck is it with the Warde Manuel apologism on this board? Does the AD have a bunch of accounts planted here to stump for him? That's the only explanation I can think of. Brian sure doesn't have a high opinion of the guy anymore.
Also, your "trophy" thing is cringe.
Well, first of all, you probably shouldn't be bringing up usernames as a mark against someone.
Second, I'm no Warde apologist. I think there's definitely things he's screwed up, and things he can improve on. But I'm also a realist, and half of the complaints people have here are fantasy complaints, that ignore the realities of college athletics.
You thought my 10 second google image was cringe? Champ, I thought your entire post was cringe. Perfect 20/20 hindsight judgement of a situation, ignoring facts, and just flat out making up stuff to fit your shitty narrative.
it's the AD's job to identify a diamond in the rough when there aren't obvious choices
Again, all of those coaches were hired by the time Beilein left (May 13th)
- Eric Musselman - Hired April 9th
- Buzz Williams - Hired April 3rd
- Mick Cronin - Hired April 9th
Not to mention, Warde should have been in good enough contact with Beilein to not let that situation happen in the first place
From the Athletic, May 19th 2019 - "Neither the coaching staff nor the support staff nor the players had a forewarning of the bombshell.....Two sources noted that Beilein was still going full-tilt on the recruiting trail....."
Every report, every story out there, is that Beilein made this jump very suddenly, and gave no warnings whatever, but sure, let's blame Warde for something you invented.
We could have had Nate Oats if Warde hadn't been asleep at the wheel.
- Nate Oats was hired by Alabama on March 27th, UM was literally getting ready to play Texas Tech the next day
- When Beilein did leave, Nate Oats came out and specifically said he wanted nothing to do with us
Any Joe Shmoe could do that for a whole lot less than Michigan is paying Warde
Wanna bet on it? You list out 3-4 Coaches in basketball, who will either be rookie coaches, or in their first few years, and 4 years from now, we'll come back and see if they have a better record and perfomance than Juwan does currently.
glad this season is finally over. anyone thinking this team was capable of doing anything other than shitting the bed is kidding themselves.
I miss Beilein.
Let's hope we have a good core coming back next year.
Betting the under was the right move...so there's that.
Juwan is just not a college basketball coach. He may be a good NBA coach down the road, where your main job is managing personalities more than Xs and Os. College is about developing players up and down the roster and Kobe is the only guy who's improved year to year. TWill is a shell of himself, Baker is what he was at Duke, and Tschetter and Barnes are unplayable. What does it say about Juwan's coaching when his kid gives zero effort and is terrified to go into the lane? If you gave a coach like McCaffery or Pikiell this team, let alone Izzo, they'd be in the tourney for sure.
We could give Juwan another year, but we all know next year will be a dumpster fire. Juwan can't design an offense without Hunter posting up, and Tarris won't be able to fill that role. The recruiting class is a disaster. Unless we get a boatload of transfers (lol), 17-15 is probably the ceiling. Just pull off the bandaid and get an actual college basketball coach.
Exactly, very little development is going on with this team. Get past the top 4 starters and it's a bloodbath. T-Wont getting extended minutes for any team with NCAA tourney hopes is a catastrophe waiting to happen.
This doesn't bode well for the players brought in as projects like Barnes, Tschetter, and Khayat.
There's a good chance this team is a G5-level squad if we lose some of the players we expect to this offseason.
I don't see any way we fire Juwan this offseason (He's done enough to survive 1 bad season) but I also don't see how next year's roster is good enough to save his job.
I hate how much I've hated watching this team this year
I hope Jett goes Pro, some of the best showings by this team were when Jett was hurt
Perfect example of a talented and promising player who never got even one tiny bit better over an entire year. Turnstile defense that got worse and worse, shooting fell off a cliff as the season went on. He wasn't a five star, but toss Jett in the wasted talent bin with Houstan, Diabate, and Bufkin
Bufkin is "wasted talent"? After one year as a starter? Same as Jett?
Damn, you give up on players quick!
It's not so much giving up on the players as giving up on the ability of the coach to get something out of them.
What are the portal needs for next year?
A dribble penetrator and an active four?
I would like to see if Khayat can play.
Really looking forward to which overmatched mid-major transfer point guard we try to plug into a hapless offense
Portal needs could be massive next year, depending on what the big 3 do. They can sorta replace one, but anything more than that and there will be no way they can portal over all of their needs and it will be NIT time again next year.
A stretch 4..A wing who can defend.
Backup PG
Starting SG (plan on Bufkin being gone)
Starting SF (plan on Jett being gone)
Starting PF (lots of minutes here)
Starting C (plan on Hunter being gone)
Backup SG
Backup SF
Solid at backup pf/c with Reed!
Just need 4 starters and 3 backups. Nothing to worry about here!
"Fire Juwan" is easy to say, but that's not a solution. Who are you bringing in that can coach better than the guy next to Juwan on the bench? I don't think it's a given that a coaching change brings us better coaching. Who wants to deal with the red tape at Michigan (specifically NIL and transfers)? And I'm not sure who profiles better as a recruiter than Juwan, given the hurdles at Michigan.
I just watched the Kansas State coach take over a dumpster fire with a whole new roster and put them in the position to battle in Big 12.
Shaka Smart, Ed Cooley, Nate Oats would all be upgrades
It's a risk obviously, just like it was a risk hiring Juwan in the first place.
Juwan's not even that great of a recruiter outside of that first class. Rutgers is out-recruiting him in 2023 and will do it again 2024 and Rutgers had an abysmal program and a much tougher situation.
But is Juwan a mediocre recruiter, or is Michigan? Juwan got two 5 star players in one class. Beilein got one total. Before that, it was Dion Harris like 20 years ago. People forget that Beilein left bc of the BS Howard is dealing with. College basketball was hard enough before NIL and transfer portal, and it's even harder when your University adds additional hurdles. Plus all the COVID stuff he had to navigate. I just don't think he's really had a fair shot to build anything. There have been massive changes to college sports and a pandemic in the few years he's been here. I could see this same team with Shannon and Llewellyn competing for a Big Ten Championship. He couldn't do anything about either of those guys not being available.
This is a ridiculous idea but maybe Beilein is willing to swallow his pride and become an assistant for Juwan? After all, JB left on his own terms so there should be no ill will. He is 70 years old and likely not interested in being a head coach again. Maybe seeing Michigan's struggles and that soft spot in his heart will tug him back to Michigan. Crazy? Yes, but I would fully endorse this, FWIW which is nothing of course. Massively upgrade one old assistant in Phil Martelli for another in JB.
My inclination is Beilein would probably be game to do this but Juwan may not be good with it?
Here's hoping we get everyone back.
The Hoke comparison is 100%. People keep talking about Beilein and Harbaugh and how they turned things around as if Howard is guaranteed to do the same thing, but he seems much more like a Hoke figure who’s completely in over his head.
Big difference is that Beilein and Harbaugh had a long track record of success so you had to believe they could turn it aroud and they did.
Howard, like Hoke, have had NO track record of kind of long-term success when they became the coaches at Michigan.
What is also interesting with Howard and Hoke, both of their best seasons were with teams that were built by the previous coach and they both can recruit very well but seem to really struggle with actual X's/O's coaching.