OT: What is the most prestigious degree/program at the University of Michigan?
I guess what I mean by this is what is the one department at Michigan that has the best reputation in the country/world?
For example, Michigan’s engineering department is considered a top. 10 program in the country but its Mechanical Engineering program has a history that few others in the world besides maybe MIT and Caltech have due to the proximity the school has had to the automotive industry and the sheer amount of famous mechanical engineers the program had produced produced in the early 20th century.
I guess it’s a two pronged question, what is the most reputable bachelors program and most reputable graduate program?
September 25th, 2022 at 12:23 PM ^
Like, if if you didn’t get into Harvard and you’re only looking to validate your vanity at the Uof M, what degree would you get?
September 25th, 2022 at 12:42 PM ^
This question has a whiff of Sparty...
September 25th, 2022 at 5:05 PM ^
Not Sparty. At Michigan you still have to take math as an undergrad.
September 26th, 2022 at 10:29 AM ^
no, no...at msu you don't need math to GET IN
September 25th, 2022 at 1:04 PM ^
if you didn’t get into Harvard
On the scale of things to get upset about in life, this ranks pretty low.
September 25th, 2022 at 1:14 PM ^
Agreed, it's pretty low, but it feels intense when it happens for a couple of days. Then life moves on as it should.
September 25th, 2022 at 4:44 PM ^
I wanted to go to MSU to be with friends - my dad wouldn’t pay for the application fee. “You’re going to Michigan or Harvard”. Thanks dad!
While I got a BSME, I think Michigan ECON degree is more prestigious. A lot of M people are making economics recommendations (guessing some are being ignored!)
September 25th, 2022 at 1:36 PM ^
I didn't get into Harvard but I did squeak into WCC and then transferred to EMU before dropping out and I eventually learned carpentry and now I make more than the average PhD so I think that not getting into Harvard might actually be a positive for some
September 25th, 2022 at 1:57 PM ^
Hey, we're sawdust bros! Similar path, carpentry job as a teenager was paying too good to justify finishing school, but after 2008 I got behind a computer and transitioned into point cloud data. Been paying into a matching roth IRA since before I was old enough to drink. Something to be said for the skilled trades.
September 25th, 2022 at 2:22 PM ^
Bro, I will never EVER sit in an office again. There was a time in my life when I sat at a desk and was a professional bureaucrat and was really good at writing emails and pushing paper and at some point I found out you don't have to hate your job.
September 25th, 2022 at 2:45 PM ^
Thanks to both of you folks! You make things and make things work. Where would all of us be without the skilled trades?
September 25th, 2022 at 3:55 PM ^
Actually used to fill up at a full service gas station in Albany that was famous for having PhDs pumping gas and cleaning windshields. It was two blocks off campus.
September 26th, 2022 at 11:53 AM ^
Were you a Construction Management major by chance? Took the same path. OCC —> EMU. Squeaked out a CM degree in a hair under 12 years lol.
Wouldn’t have done anything different though. Framing houses and being a tin knocker full time for each of those 12 years prepared me more for my current job than any piece of paper ever could.
September 26th, 2022 at 5:57 PM ^
Fellow carpenter here, 38 yrs in the trades.
Go Blue
September 25th, 2022 at 12:25 PM ^
The MFA in creative writing is one of the best in the world. Perennially considered number two by most people, after only Iowa. Not sure if any other Michigan program is consistently that high, though I'm sure some are in the conversation. Next week's game is the battle for writerly bragging rights
September 25th, 2022 at 12:37 PM ^
Did not know this! Exactly the type of response I was looking for. Michigan really is unique for the sheer amount of outstanding departments and programs it has to offer.
September 25th, 2022 at 12:37 PM ^
You already know. Frank Conroy vs Jia tolentino
September 25th, 2022 at 12:48 PM ^
How exactly do you measure the quality of a creative writing program?
There's a certain amount of arbitrariness in all of these rankings, but that especially seems out there.
September 25th, 2022 at 12:51 PM ^
It is out there.
But also, when encounter GREAT writing, it’s apparent.
September 25th, 2022 at 12:56 PM ^
Ultimately it comes down to building a reputation within the literary and publishing communities for being a supportive and constructively challenging place to study, which becomes mutually reinforcing over time as you attract better and better students who then go on to become accomplished writers. A big factor for Michigan is that they have exceptional resources (thanks in large part to the Zell family) which allows the program to offer more or less unrivaled support for faculty and students and programming
In any case, objectively measuring artistic achievement vis-a-vis an academic program is indeed hard, but we all know the proof is in the pudding in the case of, say, NYU Film School and its alumni. Iowa remains the historic leader in this regard, but they had a big head start. Michigan is up there in more recent decades
September 26th, 2022 at 4:00 PM ^
How many people get their books published coming out of there, how famous is the faculty, how many folks do you place in tenure track jobs in 5 years, how good is the funding, that kind of thing.
M is indeed a very good program, but it's Iowa, a huge gap, then everybody else. The Iowa writer's workshop is unique, both because Vonnegaut put his stamp on the program, and because people who go there get ridiculous opportunities. Agents show up there to see if they can get people signed to book deals early, i.e. not typical MFA stuff.
September 26th, 2022 at 4:08 PM ^
Iowa used to do this thing though where they'd rank students numerically based on how much they liked their writing, and then tape it to the wall. Have no idea if they still do. Fuck that.
September 25th, 2022 at 2:41 PM ^
Here are the detailed rankings for every graduate degree:
https://record.umich.edu/articles/u-m-graduate-programs-ranked-among-best-graduate-schools/
September 25th, 2022 at 3:24 PM ^
Upvote this one. The question has been answered.
September 25th, 2022 at 3:42 PM ^
Except almost everyone in academia thinks these rankings are irrelevant because of their absurd methodology (they're essentially a less reliable version of the coaches poll)
September 25th, 2022 at 4:12 PM ^
It’s just a source.
But academics complaining about the ranking of their department! 🤷♂️ 🤦♂️😂
September 25th, 2022 at 2:53 PM ^
School of social work is ranked #1 in the country. Think sociology may be as well
September 25th, 2022 at 5:01 PM ^
Wisconsin and Berkley edge UM in Sociology. I looked Sociology rankings bc a relative got into lower ranked Harvard for Sociology PhD after getting denied at UM and I made fun of them for having to go to their safety school in Boston.
September 26th, 2022 at 3:57 PM ^
I didn't get in, which I'm still a bit pissed about.
September 25th, 2022 at 12:25 PM ^
Nuclear Engineering. Link
September 25th, 2022 at 1:35 PM ^
Go, NERS!
September 25th, 2022 at 1:38 PM ^
Marine Engineering
September 25th, 2022 at 2:35 PM ^
*and Radiological Sciences!! Glow Blue!
September 25th, 2022 at 12:29 PM ^
Definitely the degree in apples. Then again, the orange program is really good.
September 25th, 2022 at 12:33 PM ^
Blueberries for pies without ice cream. Apples for pies with ice cream.
September 25th, 2022 at 12:30 PM ^
NOT Education. Says this lifetime educator and Class of 1986 grad. You could make a case that UM is no better than 5th in the state in this area. MSU, EMU, CMU, and WMU probably surpass UM. Damn it. MSU is the gold standard in my field, sadly.
September 25th, 2022 at 12:47 PM ^
And you know for a fact that the School of Ed is unchanged in prestige today, 36 years after your graduation?
I know a couple of SoE grads (from this century) who seemed to have no problem getting hired at reputable school districts. Are they flukes, and the average SoE grad is getting passed over for jobs in favor of people from Western and such?
September 25th, 2022 at 1:02 PM ^
Your approach seems off in terms of tone and logic. Given, it is a message board on the internet. However, "lifetime educator" is sufficient credibility for me. It also synchs with what I already believed, so potential bias, but family of educators have that opinion also.
September 25th, 2022 at 2:08 PM ^
Not saying whether the SoE is good or not, but anectotal evidence that some of their grads get hired by reputable school districts is hardly a convincing argument.
September 25th, 2022 at 2:47 PM ^
JM Blue, obviously any degree from UM carries some cachet, and I am not saying the SOE at UM is some sort of ITT Tech situation. However, it has never been an area the University at large has lavished resources on, and I know very few fellow educators, including myself, who went to UM with the intention of becoming teachers. Nothing wrong with that, it is simply an area other schools do a better job in. You can't be top 5 at everything.
September 25th, 2022 at 3:17 PM ^
The ROI on a M degree in some fields, such as pre-college educators has to be very poor. Social Work too.
I get it, M is a great school, but bottom line on education is ROI.
September 25th, 2022 at 2:41 PM ^
Hope’s education program is better than most of those schools, besides msu. Don’t forget about the small schools!
September 25th, 2022 at 2:49 PM ^
Peter Parker you have now given me something to research, thank you! Hope is generally a fantastic school, had not heard much about the education program there.
September 25th, 2022 at 2:52 PM ^
Obviously there’s a major trade off for a school like hope, and that’s $$$
September 25th, 2022 at 3:02 PM ^
Fun fact: this is because most of the "directional" colleges actually started out as Normal Schools, that is, schools to teach educators. I believe that MSU previously had a Normal School attached to it too (will need to confirm). University of Michigan was not a Normal School.
So the leaders in your field have like a century of head start here. This used to be all that they did.
September 25th, 2022 at 8:05 PM ^
100% correct Pope. I think the one poster misread the intent of my post. I am not mad about it, really enjoyed my time at UM and felt well-prepared to teach when I got out.
September 25th, 2022 at 11:34 PM ^
Wife is an SOE grad and the big difference at UM, if I remember correctly, is that you don’t get a degree in “teaching.” You have to get a major and minor in subject areas and then you get your certificate. I have a very hard time believing my wife’s bachelors degree in mathematics (with a minor in history) with teaching certification from U of M is less impressive than a teaching degree at any of those “better” programs.
September 25th, 2022 at 12:31 PM ^
The dental school is generally ranked #1 in America and usually near the top in the world (currently #1 in one ranking and #5 in another). https://news.dent.umich.edu/2022/04/06/school-of-dentistry-again-ranked-no-1-in-the-u-s-in-annual-qs-survey/
September 25th, 2022 at 1:58 PM ^
My kids pediatric dentist graduated from U of M so glad to hear this
September 25th, 2022 at 2:43 PM ^
So did mine. They're adults now but their childhood dental experience was great thanks to her.