OT: Fauci says sports can probably proceed without spectators (for summer)
Per ESPN
Take that, doomers. It's not what we all prefer, but it's far from the worst case scenario if it comes to pass.
I'll be very sad if I can't see a game at Michigan Stadium, Comerica Park or Lambeau Field this fall but I will take getting drunk in the mancave over the nothingness that is our current situation.
Now remove the stick from Newsome's ass.
"We should stand up to hastily and poorly drafted laws."
In about three days the number of reported COVID-19 deaths will have matched the number of battle deaths in the 3+ years of the Korean War, and will have done so in just a little over a month. In about 10 days we'll probably have matched the total of battle deaths suffered in the 11 years we fought in Vietnam.
And in spite of that, the amount of pant-crapping over stay-at-home orders due to expire at the end of April makes me think you all would have been out of your fucking minds at the unfairness of draconian food rationing and blackout orders that were enforced for almost four fucking years during WWII.
Is the existential danger posed by COVID-19 the equivalent of those we faced in WWII? Certainly not, but neither is staying out of garden centers for another two weeks.
https://www.va.gov/opa/publications/factsheets/fs_americas_wars.pdf
It's funny. I think reasonable people can agree about the inconsistency of the gubmint's response. Imperfection is everywhere.
Some posters have -- reasonably, I think -- taken issue with some of the details of Michigan's directives.
Then they tack on ridiculous statements reeking of poor education / thought processes and it's hard to keep listening. See "contributions" near mine elsewhere in this thread for examples.
Those numbers are irrelevant to the precision of the order.
Let's all throw out stats that fail to put things in perspective.
3 million people die in the United States each year. The age and comorbidity profile is similar to those dying of COVID.
A significant portion of those dying from COVID would have died in the next 12 months. We don't know how many exactly though.
A severe flu can rip through a nursing home and kill 8% of the residents.
Nearly 1.5 million people die each year in car accidents around the globe.
You are far more likely to die of cancer or cardiovascular disease than if you contract the virus. (Go ahead, look at the odds). Especially if you are obese.
Michigan had 2500 less overall deaths last month even with the virus, because of our stay at home order. That would be 35,000 deaths saved over the course of the year if she kept it in place! What about those people Don? How does that compare to your war numbers?
Try not to be so disengenous. Try to view things in perspective.
Anyway, there is no reason not to raise concerns over a poorly crafted order. If you owned a landscaping or construction business you wouldn't think of it as a mild annoyance. Oh, and it does not affect those death numbers or the spread. The distinctions are not based on science. But, the overall deaths toll, seems to be your only justification for not doing a better job with the law. You could just cite the COVID numbers and justify anything, right?
Take politics out of it Don. We need reason and sense.
I agree with most of what you've said, but I wouldn't be quoting the preliminary numbers on deaths in Michigan for March just yet. They're preliminary for a reason.
They never go up by the thousands later though.
Did we send 80 year olds and the obese to fight those wars?
That's who's fighting covid 19...
Fucking wrong again, you total dipshit.
Never gets old for you, does it?
I love you Don.
April 15th, 2020 at 12:52 PM ^
Both Trump and Witmer are terrible leaders. They are both divisive. But one is a Republican and one a Democrat. One thinks a 45 cent gas tax is a good idea despite what it will do to the poor and fixed income, because she and her husband are rich, and it doesn't affect them much. One is just an idiot. For me is South Park's big douche vs turd sandwich.
But you go on and blame the Republican party.
Your concern for the poor/working class is noted. How do you feel about guaranteeing them access to health care and sick time from work, two things that might reduce the impact of future pandemics?
The affordable care act did not make healthcare cheaper or us any healthier (as evidenced by obesity rates growing every year since).....why do you think 'access' to healthcare will make us healthier? Once you see the Dr, you have to actually live by their recommendations or you won't get healthier. How many people actually listen to their Dr? Probably not that many based on obesity rates alone.
Truth is you don't need to go to the Dr to be healthy. Eat the right food and walk 10,000 steps a day and most of our health problems will be solved.
Bullshit, people who practice healthy habits can still get cancer, or have any number of ailments affect them that are completely outside of their control. Our healthcare system is broken, even with insurance your average person is going bankrupt if they get cancer, etc. Obamacare was a half measure that had to be stripped way down from it's original proposal just to make it through the House and Senate.
why do you think 'access' to healthcare will make us healthier...Truth is you don't need to go to the Dr to be healthy.
This is the most ridiculous thing I've read in a long time. That's right, pull yourself up by the bootstraps. Tell that cancer or diabetes or heart disease that you don't need no stinkin doctor! You may be born with genetic predispositions to certain health conditions, but you don't need a doctor! Walking and eating right solves everything!
Some of you people need Jesus. I'm only half joking.
It is really mind boggling the amount of people who don't see a problem with a system that causes people to go bankrupt because they are unlucky enough to be afflicted with cancer, etc.
If people started getting better at taking care of themselves and didnt need Doctors as much. Many powerful people around the world would literally lose trillions of dollars.
Big pharma is doing everything they can to make sure people stay sick and needs their pills.
That's why so many on here screech so loudly against things like vitamin C mega doses. I mean what if people actually figured out that it actually works and then they dont need a doctor !!!
Cancer is the big one that can't be helped by diet but most of our health issues come from the fact the average male in the US weighs 200 lbs and is 5'9".
Diabetes and heart disease are two of the biggest killers and they are both tied to diet and exercise.
This isn't about projections and models. This is about what happened and is happening right here in SE Michigan among other hard hit areas. Do you get that?
These aren't made up stories about ICUs in Wayne and Oakland counties being made up of 100% covid patients and health care workers having insufficient PPE. These aren't made up stories of morgues being full in Detroit. These aren't made up stories of hospitals taking huge financial hits and having to furlough employees, not because of a Fauci led conspiracy, but because they can't do the normal things that bring in money.
This is not about your personal liberties or epidemiology models. This is about keeping the health care system afloat during a crisis while mitigating economic damage.
If you think social distancing hasn't saved lives right here in Michigan, then you simply are choosing your own facts and narrative over the one that is playing out in real time in front of your eyes. Do you get that?
April 15th, 2020 at 10:40 PM ^
I must have missed something. When did Fauci begin "dictating these policies"? Do the state governors report to him? This notion that he is some kind of dictator is bizarre and must be based on "alternative facts."
April 15th, 2020 at 12:12 PM ^
Uh, of course he's talking a lot. He's the country's leading epidemiologist. If he gets locked in a basement with a gag order like some people want, what's the alternative? The President just gets up and says 'Take 1L of hydroxychloroquine a day and go about your lives. This is a hoax'?
Exactly, the people who have a problem with Fauci talking to much better damn well have a problem with an ignorant President running his mouth. But yet some of them don't.
April 15th, 2020 at 10:26 AM ^
Yes. It will happen.
April 15th, 2020 at 10:49 AM ^
Hey, maybe we start to learn more each day about it? Maybe we realize it is so far widespread because there are so many undiagnosed cases that do end up at the hospital? Maybe we realize it is not the death sentence people think from the news?
https://www.wbur.org/commonhealth/2020/04/14/coronavirus-boston-homeles…
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/coronavirus/1586872199-study-over-80-of-…
Maybe, just like our last pandemic, swine flu, we take months to go from a 3 or 4% CFR to a drastically lower one? Maybe we are not going to have a huge resurgence?
Are there any doom and gloom people willing to acknowledge this possibility? Or is do political cloud how we all see this thing? Do we have to defend our original view of the severity of this to justify it despite new evidence?
April 15th, 2020 at 11:33 AM ^
Oh sure, it's totally possible that there is a higher rate of asymptomatic cases than we're aware of. It might even be probable. But even if that is true:
1) Health systems across the nation and world have been stretched beyond their breaking points dealing with only the symptomatic cases. Those that haven't have likely only had such a result due to an earlier/more extreme adoption of social distancing measures.
2) There is a reasonably large group of symptomatic cases that don't require hospitalization, but do require extended recuperation periods. If, say, 10% of the population can hardly get out of bed for weeks at a time, that is highly disruptive on its own, even if it doesn't ultimately prove fatal.
3) The disease is too new to understand future immunity to it at this point. We have no clue if having had an asymptomatic case is positively or negatively correlated with long-term immunity. In other words, does having an asymptomatic case mean that your body was exposed to a low enough viral load that it didn't create enough antibodies to fully fight it off again in the future?
Look, I hope for the best in all this. But I reiterate my first point -- health systems globally have been overrun dealing with only the worst of the symptomatic cases, even after pivoting their resources to focus on fighting this virus. It would be great news if we were closer to achieving herd immunity because of a larger prevalence of asymptomatic cases than we've currently projected. I would love to know that the sore throat I experienced for all of a day, 10 days after returning from Boston in early March as their outbreak was spreading undetected, was in fact my personal successful battle with Covid-19, and I'm good for the rest of my life. I recognize the odds are greater than zero that this is in fact the case. But at the same time, there are at least equal odds that I haven't yet caught the disease, and doing so will result in either myself or someone in my household having significant symptoms for an extended period of time.
April 15th, 2020 at 12:02 PM ^
You are right about health care systems. During flu season they get near capacity. Add any new disease on that, even a mild one, and you get an overwhelmed system.
But, as flu season dies down and physicians learn more about treatment, and we isolate the vulnerable population, we should be able to get things back up and running pretty soon. That wlll also get us quicker to proverbial herd immunity. The virus isn't going away. The horse has left the barn. The only thing left to do is to make sure the hospitals can handle it and to look out for our most vulnerable.
We will be fine and make it through this.
April 15th, 2020 at 12:56 PM ^
Thank you. Solid posts immediately above.
The purpose of the stay at home order was to give the medical and scientific communities time to catch up. It is inappropriate to use it to keep people "safe" in undefined terms. It is a poor idea to let people who have no skin in the game make the decision.
Not even the doom and gloom people truly believe we need to be locked down for months. They simply want us to be locked down because they're hoping a spike in unemployment will lead to more socialism.
The reason why this virus has been confirmed in virtually every country in the world, including extremely remote places like Cabo Verde, the Falkland Islands, and French Polynesia is because way more people have the virus than just those that display symptoms. The real infection count in the US is likely no less than 10x what we're actually reporting. Many places in the US have likely already hit their peak growth rate. From here on out, the number of new infections will steadily decline throughout the summer and restrictions will slowly be lifted. Football practice will resume in July.
April 15th, 2020 at 11:17 AM ^
He has not been exactly correct lately. With China covering this up and inaccurate models driving the goverment tyrants, who can blame him.
April 15th, 2020 at 11:28 AM ^
Our DBs are very good at social distancing, so I say let them play!
April 15th, 2020 at 12:57 PM ^
Probably the best comment of the day on a sports blog. I laughed out loud. Thank you!
April 15th, 2020 at 11:43 AM ^
Michigan lockdown is way too restrictive. You can leave your house without endangering anyone more than they were in 2010.
Most of the economy is tied to food, clothing, and shelter. It is all essential. I don't want to get sick and neither does my barber. I am willing to trust people that have skin in the game more than people who don't.
Stealing a post from user 1974:
It's funny. I think reasonable people can agree about the inconsistency of the gubmint's response. Imperfection is everywhere.
Some posters have -- reasonably, I think -- taken issue with some of the details of Michigan's directives.
Then they tack on ridiculous statements reeking of poor education / thought processes and it's hard to keep listening. See "contributions" near mine elsewhere in this thread for examples.
Why your circle gotta say the gubmint is salivating over taking away your rights mwhahahahahaha!? Why doesn't it just say that the order is too restrictive and should be modified?
Edit: Whoever negged me, that was utterly ineffective (aside from points not working). I don't even know why you're mad. Are you mad because I said the order was too restrictive or are you mad because I said it's not an evil conspiracy by the government to ruin our lives?
You keep saying "have skin in the game" like it means something. Define who has skin in the game.
You should trust numbers and the status of the health care industry not whoever you arbitrarily deem has "skin in the game."
April 15th, 2020 at 11:45 AM ^
I think all of this depends on what progressions we make in testing and antiviral treatments from now until the end of the summer. Obviously a vaccine is completely out of the question until this time next year at the earliest, and that's if all the right buttons are clicked the first time around. But getting in-home testing kits that are cheap, mass produced, give quick results, and most importantly, are accurate, would be a huge stepping stone.
Secondly, antiviral treatments that are proven to attack/mitigate the symptoms of COVID-19 could possibly developed over the coming months as well. I don't know what a timeline for that looks like, but I imagine it to be much sooner than a vaccine.
You get both of these two things in place, and I think strong argument can be made to bring sports back. Maybe not the fans in the stands, but the players, coaches, staff and TV crews, absolutely. It wouldn't be the same, but it sure beats what we have right now: re-runs and the news. One gets repetitive after a while, and the other is a combination of depressing and infuriating.
April 15th, 2020 at 12:01 PM ^
I guess I’ll take it but the crowd is half (or more) of the excitement!
April 15th, 2020 at 12:41 PM ^
Tigers compete for pennant against the Yankees, Pirates and Phillies.
Yes, yes, yes. I love the proposal to restructure the leagues so the teams can start playing each other at their spring training stadiums in the grapefruit and cactus leagues.
Please, I want sports.
Of all the delusional comments in this thread, and boy there are a lot of them, the tigers in the pennant takes first place.
April 15th, 2020 at 12:56 PM ^
The challenge in most of this is the lack of coordination and effort. As someone who works with government and healthcare customers all day it is readily and almost sadly apparent that there are significant issues with a lack of leadership and direction.
I have been on calls with HHS/FEMA/DOD/GSA/state governments/healthcare systems/GPOs and it is apparent there is no central direction and focus and all are bascially now at the point of doing their own thing to combat what is happening from procurement to testing to treatment.
PPE, testing, pharmaceuticals, etc are all being impacted by global supply chain impacts and issues. Most emergency planning accounts for only limited regional impacts - tornados, hurricanes, etc and has never had to account for global impact. Much of the PPE and pharmaceutial raw materials and production for the US and our supply chains come from China and India (80% of the components as an estimate for the US) https://www.cfr.org/in-brief/coronavirus-disrupt-us-drug-supply-shortages-fda. All of the N95 masks required are also primarily produced in those countries who also have their own massive increase in demand and impacts in supply chain to support.
From the outset use of the governments capacity to implement the Defense Production Act should have provided immediate direction to produce and build both PPE domestic supply and production capacity and the same with standardized testing kits and protocols for mass production and introduction - now the FDA is issuing so many EUA approvals it is a crap shoot on the efficacy of tests leading to concerns on how effective any would be for widespread analysis on easing restrictions on return to work.
I think that the fedearl governments lack of specific direction and leadership combined with the nature of our disjointed healthcare systems and state governments with various directions distinctly contribute to these challenges we are going to continue to have. We cannot have 50 or more methods to conduct testing, contact tracing and subsequent isolation requirements and open the economy based upon state or local level adoptions. For anyone who travels for work - you would need something standardized - phone app, etc in my opinion to start feeling good about mass transit, travel between states and localities, etc.
April 15th, 2020 at 12:57 PM ^
The nuts bitching about Fauci's "dictatorship" in this thread are really depressing me. The fact that they're all getting negged to hell is at least a little heartening.
I appreciate the ad hominem attack. Stay frosty.
If it walks like a duck...
Ad hominem attacks are lame, like calling Fauci a dictator, which not only lame but not even accurate. Strange coming from a real scientist like yourself.
Actually, I first asked who died and made him God, which would have proven your point even better. Well done. :)
I deserved that one.
The more depressing thing is some are Trumpers who seemingly have no problem with their President acting like a wannabe dictator his whole time in office and trying to claim he has power not granted to him by the damn Constitution in the last week.
Michigan's governor bans seeds, motorboating, and buying carpet, while keeping liquor stores, weed shops, lottery ticket sales, and of course "life sustaining" abortion. And HE's the dictator? You can't be serious
woot
This is not college sports. The pro proposal looks like weekly testing of players and family plus virtual quarantine of these folks the entire season. No spectators.
That formula can’t work for college sports. How do you quarantine student athletes ? Any cases shuts down an entire team. This ain’t happening by the fall 2020.
Honestly, does anyone want to watch Michigan run out of the tunnel to 100k+ empty seats and watch the wolvies play a game with no atmosphere?? I’ll pass
I hate to be that guy, but this thread topic was about getting sports back even if we watch them with no fans. While I’m sure plenty will watch, count me as one who wouldn’t watch games in empty stadiums. Perfect example was in England before they shut down in March, Liverpool played atletico Madrid in a riveting exciting game. Meanwhile in France, psg played Dortmund in an empty stadium in one of the dullest, most boring games I’ve ever seen. It was like watching a scrimmage. Almost unwatchable. If that’s what’s in store for us here, I’m out. I’ll just go on YouTube and watch classic games. Sports without fans is just pointless. The only people who would really like it are gamblers, which I am not one.