OT: Are you sending your children back to in person school if given a different option?
I apologize if this topic has already been addressed. My kid’s district allowed parents to vote on in person or virtual learning this upcoming school year. They decided to allow both. The virtual learning is 9 weeks of live, virtual teaching with re-evaluation after that period. The other option is to send them back for full time for in person learning. My wife and I both agree that although we feel that in person in the best way to learn, and we have a very sociable child, we aren’t willing to subject our kid to that risk. I’d like to hear the opinions of other MgoBloggers with relevant experiences and decisions with younger children.
August 16th, 2020 at 1:24 AM ^
My child isn’t of school age yet. Full stop.
August 16th, 2020 at 3:01 AM ^
Of course, socializing a child properly trumps them getting the flu
August 16th, 2020 at 4:13 AM ^
no option to return at this time. we would allow return if offered by district. i suspect the school board may return to the half students MTu and other half ThF in near future...they received a lot of heat at open meeting Thursday for using month old ohio stats in decision to close schools last week. new cases, hospitalizations, and deaths have all been trending down for >4 weeks.
August 16th, 2020 at 4:33 AM ^
Why does anyone think anything has changed since March regarding the risks? Do what you have to do. Roll the dice if you believe precautions are appropriate. One of my 3 daughters has severe asthma so we are remote learning. I respect all parental choices at this point besides the illogical ones. Unfortunately none of us lives in bubbles so watch the numbers and react appropriately as any good parent would hopefully do. To me, this is simple logic based on facts. I personally can’t risk corona in my house. Period.
August 16th, 2020 at 5:38 AM ^
My only kid was literally born yesterday so we won’t be sending him to school any time soon
August 16th, 2020 at 7:25 AM ^
Congrats!
August 16th, 2020 at 11:31 AM ^
Congratulations!
August 16th, 2020 at 2:23 PM ^
Sincere congratulations to you and your wife, and welcome to your future Wolverine!
August 16th, 2020 at 6:35 AM ^
Nope. Keeping them home. Both of my school aged kids have severe asthma and wearing a mask for an extended amount of time kicks it up. And we also have the means to be home with them.
We badly want them to be able to get back to school because we are seeing the effects on them. Thankfully we know the parents of their friends pretty well so we are organizing get togethers every week or two. Seeing their friends and developing social skills is just as important as their education.
August 16th, 2020 at 6:39 AM ^
Our youngest child is 27, so it's not anything we have to grapple with in that regard. I can only imagine the difficulty. Given my wife's (she was always a worrier) and my approaches to parenting, I think I would lean towards sending them to school, and my wife would lean the other way. I'm pretty sure her approach would have prevailed.
August 16th, 2020 at 7:03 AM ^
We had 3 options (AAPS): hybrid (part in person, part online), A2 Virtual and A2 Online. We chose the hybrid so that our kids can get some contact with their friends. AAPS decided to start all online, so we all look forward to the day when they can go back. Although I am not happy with the entirely online decision, I am happy they decided several weeks ago so we all know and can plan for that.
August 16th, 2020 at 7:28 AM ^
3rd, 7th and 10th graders all starting up 5 days/week in person on Wednesday at our private school in Charlotte.
We will see how long this lasts.
August 16th, 2020 at 7:42 AM ^
I have a 3rd and 5th grader. The in-home situation last spring was awful. When AAPS went back on their promise to off in-person learning, we pulled our kids out of public school. Frankly, the risk to kids is extremely small. When compared to the now known effects of locking them in the house, this was an easy decision. I am worried what will be the mental and physical impacts this winter for families with kids at home.
August 16th, 2020 at 8:05 AM ^
What are the "now known effects" and why in the world were you locking your kids in the house?
I don't recall seeing a single state ordering everyone to stay inside and never go out to the yard.
August 16th, 2020 at 8:48 AM ^
I don't know what the "now known effects" are, either. But I think you took the other part too literally...
August 16th, 2020 at 9:09 AM ^
Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant the known effects on my family. To name just a few:
- explosive tantrums on the part of my youngest as she struggles to focus on worksheets without getting her sensory needs met
- depression in my oldest who was finally finding her way socially but is now withdrawn
- tension in my marriage as both parents to try to cope with support our children while meeting the demand on our career
I did not mean literally locked in the house. We get outside. The social isolation has a real impact - not to mention the paranoia associated with the idea that if you get anywhere near someone, you are going to catch a horrible disease.
Every decision life bears risks. We make trades in our daily choices. Whether sending our kids to school is no different. When I compare the risk of my children catching, and even transmitting the disease, to these other known effects, the choice is clear.
August 16th, 2020 at 11:17 AM ^
Do you think the tantrums only happen because your youngest isn't in school? As an educator, I can guarantee you that isn't something caused by being at home. Elementary teachers deal with tantrums on a daily basis.
If your youngest is depressed, I would assume that the doctor that diagnosed that depression offered some advice. How's that working?
I still don't get this social isolation claim so many are making. As a caregiver for elderly parents, I have to be very careful to avoid close contact with others, yet I'm still very able to be social. Both in person and electronically. The majority of my friends are in the same position you are, but instead of inventing fears and complaining they've worked out strategies to keep their kids active and social.
August 16th, 2020 at 9:32 PM ^
So this parent is inventing fears? They don’t know their kids and can’t see the emotional toll this is having on them. If your teen is depressed just take them to the doctor and they will be fine.
You are a sanctimonious prick and should not be an educator if you are this dismissive of the emotional and mental health challenges this pandemic has placed on our kids.
You can guarantee that tantrums are not caused by school closing and saying at home. Really? Guarantee? Jesus Christ. Please go find a job where you are not around kids
August 16th, 2020 at 7:48 AM ^
Our school (elementary in NYC suburbs) is doing hybrid - two full days a week ( T-Th or Wed-Fri) with the rest virtual. Not enough room to socially distance with the full class. They also have offered a full remote option.
We are sending the kids (3rd and 4th grade) NY seems to have it more under control than most states at this point and elementary school doesn’t have the same issue as middle/high school with the changing class rooms frequently, etc. there are also mandatory masks, so I think the risk has been minimized to the extent possible.
August 16th, 2020 at 8:16 AM ^
My school district is opening up to in person after starting remotely as the cases numbers in our county have dramatically receded since the start of the school year(I wonder if being forced to start remotely finally made some people start taking masking and social distancing seriously). They are using a phased-in approach in which my 4th grade daughter will be in school in person starting the 24th and then my 7th grade son will start on the 31st. I cannot wait to get them out the door and back into school. It's been long enough and the school district has been handling this whole thing really well at the start of the school year after disastrously handling last year. My wife(a school counselor in an elementary school who has had to be physically present in the building) is much more nervous about it, but we signed them up for regular school when its available and so she is rolling with it. The kids have handled remote classes really well so far, but doing my full time job while monitoring them and acting as in-house IT support is.....less than fun. To be clear I would happily continue doing it if the numbers in our area were still concerning, but as they're not I am good to go. They have a ton of friends in the neighborhood and have been seeing them, so I'm not worried about the socialization aspect, just think teaching works better in-person.
The only thing I am going to miss is the ability to easily monitor whether my son is turning in his homework, that's an insane battle that I have been fighting for years and having everything be remote was making it really easy to check on him doing and then turning in his homework. He comes by it honestly(Both my Dad and I were infamous when we were in middle school for being rather blase' about homework and then crushing the tests). But I have told him he can't get away with that in a school where everyone is smart.
August 16th, 2020 at 11:14 PM ^
What school district? City, State?
August 17th, 2020 at 7:51 AM ^
Franklin, TN
Williamson County
August 16th, 2020 at 8:17 AM ^
We were also given that choice a few weeks back. But the majority answer was so overwhelming that they scaled back and went with online only for the first 9 week semester. I'm in a rural county about 50 miles south of DC, and - FWIW - its quite a red county. That was result was a little surprising given the demographics, and the fact that the vote was held several weeks ago. If it had been held today, I wouldn't have been so surprised.
August 16th, 2020 at 8:24 AM ^
My wife and I don't have a choice, its 100% virtual, BUT I agree with the district's decision. Secondly, while many cite "socialization" as a reason to send kids back, the way (at least my district) is talking about in-person learning and how they are setting it up, won't allow for much socialization anyways.
August 16th, 2020 at 8:25 AM ^
Ours will be attending pre-k in person, if the school is open. They’re supposed to start on the 26th, but a lot of schools in IL have gone to e-learning to start the year lately.
August 16th, 2020 at 8:45 AM ^
We'll send ours back if proper precautions are in place. But we aren't in the US. There's not a snowball's chance in hell we'd send ours back in the US. Too many idiots.
August 16th, 2020 at 8:46 AM ^
Our kids (3rd grade and Kindergarten) are going back. The choice was easy for us since I already teach there and my wife started teaching there this year. Our students had the choice to go full time in person or all virtual. One problem with this approach is the extra load on the teachers.
A bigger decision for us was to send the Kindergartner or wait until next year. We, my wife especially, didn't want the first experience at this school to be sit in a desk all day with no sense of fun or social interaction.
I will say I am comfortable with the plan our school is following: social distance when possible, desks 6 ft apart, masks when moving through the school or closer than 6 ft, sanitizer at every door, no mixing of classes at lunch, recess, etc. Even the kindergarten classes I've observed have done well with the masks and distancing. I don't think it is completely perfect but it is about the best you could ask for. Even with all the precautions, most everyone is still thinking that it is just a question of when we will go virtual. Hopefully (to be selfish) because our county numbers are too high instead of an outbreak in our specific school. And don't even ask about the county health department fiasco just before school started.
I would have been fine going virtual for everyone to begin with, especially when thinking about older teachers and those with health issues.
August 16th, 2020 at 8:48 AM ^
I have lived most of my adult life in Europe where there simply is not the same fear of sending kids back to school. Reading through the message boards, yes, there are some kids with pre-existing conditions that should avoid groups of people and this is taking place across the globe,
But, what I mostly hear among the commenters on the board is that it is not about the kids but about themselves as parents or the adults in the school. There is no doubt that compared to Europe, the adult population in the US has 2 to 3 times more adults with a pre-existing condition that led to astronomical levels of asthma and diabetes. This is why America accounts for 1/3 of the global deaths from a virus that is now imbedded in every country in the world.(including New Zealand again).
As a result, it is not a surprise that more Americans are likely to choose to keep kids out of schools. I certainly hope every school district allows for choice.
August 16th, 2020 at 10:42 AM ^
Per Worldometer, the US has about 22% of the reported covid deaths. That’s between 1/4 and 1/5.
August 16th, 2020 at 8:51 AM ^
It is a no-brainer for me. Both of my kids are going back to school, the real ones, in two weeks.
August 16th, 2020 at 9:01 AM ^
Not as relevant as some of the above but we do see our grandkids several times a week. They live very close. Our daughter and son in law have opted to send them back in person for now. If it gets “crazy” and school is cancelled, they’ll work with it. These boys need and want to go back to school (2 high school and 1 jr. high) and we are proud of the decision our daughter and SIL made - they agonized over it.
August 16th, 2020 at 9:20 AM ^
Anyone who knows me knows I'm dumb as a bag of rocks.
That being said I'm really trying to organize a community teaching collective.
I absolutely believed that public education is constantly defunded for a reason. I also feel that it's my duty as a parent to help rectify that situation.
But again I'm dumb as shit so hopefully the rest of the community has some smart folks in it.
August 16th, 2020 at 3:31 PM ^
Sadly I think public education is regularly financially strapped because people in most of this country value their cell phone/car/whatever more than education. Public schools cannot pick and choose their clients--makes it particularly difficult for schools/teachers to perform well in some areas--when students/parents do not value education or cannot focus on education due to other factors in their lives--failure is a consequence. Add limited funding and it only compounds the problem. Private schools have students who's parents have at least attached a dollar value to education--a big advantage to have parents who are more likely to be engaged. I personally feel parental support/involvement is and will always be the most important factor determining a child's success in school. I am making the assumption that on average a parent laying out thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars a year for education is at the very least somewhat more likely to be engaged/invested in the child's learning.
August 16th, 2020 at 9:25 AM ^
Our district is 100% online for at least the first quarter, which ends just after Halloween for us, and then there will be some sort of assessment of where we are at with everything. Even if they had an in-person option, however, we wouldn't have opted for it - working from home is easy enough for me and my wife and as our kids are both older, it isn't like there is more than an occasional interruption.
Obviously, we would love to be able to send them off to school every morning in good conscience, but with the way everything has been handled, doing so right now would be insane, in our view, and with compromised me trying to keep my well-paced recovery on track, it makes sense anyway.
August 16th, 2020 at 9:39 AM ^
Our daughter is starting kindergarten and we have selected the virtual option with the choice to come in whenever we feel comfortable. I don’t see the need to participate in this experiment. If things improve, we will bring her in.
For the last few years in pre-k/daycare, there was not a 2 week period where she did not catch some bug/cold from the other kids. This is pretty common for many kids her age. Do people really think it will be much different for covid?
August 16th, 2020 at 9:49 AM ^
I’ve heard that “education pods” are the new rage.
August 16th, 2020 at 9:51 AM ^
I get both sides. There’s no debating that in person learning and in person socialization for young children is what’s best for their educational and social development. But my wife is a teacher and it’s been incredibly infuriating watching parents of her students go after her and her fellow teachers for decisions made by the county that are completely out of her control. The minute virtual learning was even uttered by the county she had parents reaching out and threatening to get their lawyers and the local police involved. That’s not exaggeration. Some parents out there are that batshit crazy and are venting their anger at the wrong people.
My wife is concerned to go back to school in a few months, after she gets back from maternity leave. They as teachers can’t enforce any kind of mask wearing in classrooms without parents flying off the handle and threatening to get said teachers fired for “infringing on their children’s rights.” She’s afraid of getting COVID from one of her students and then passing it off to our newborn son. That, to us, is a completely justified reason to be concerned about in person learning.
I’m all for compromise between both sides and finding a solution that both sides can at least tolerate. But the problem I see is that there is no compromise anymore. People want what they want and if you don’t agree with them than fuck you you’re a moron who hates this country and you should just get the fuck out.
August 16th, 2020 at 10:32 AM ^
Yes? There's no hardship ever experienced and people are used to getting their own way. So they throw a tantrum and scream and call names when they find someone they don't agree with and the opposition doesn't give in.
August 16th, 2020 at 11:16 AM ^
When you live in a country of roughly 330 million people you're never going to get full agreement on just about anything, and that's okay. That's part of how democracy works. But compromise is the only way that we're ever going to get anything meaningful done. Unfortunately a lot of people on both sides don't see it that way. Its their way or the highway and there is no middle ground. Their side has all the answers and all the facts, the other side is just "fake news," or "fear-mongering," or "science-deniers," or "socialists," and if you don't agree then you're "part of the problem." Its just exhausting.
I'm honestly just tired of watching angry parents with an "I'm smarter than you" attitude throw my wife and her fellow teachers under the bus because they have no one else to complain to. Teachers get shit on enough in the most normal of circumstances. This is the last thing they need to take on, too.
August 16th, 2020 at 3:42 PM ^
Sometimes poor teachers fail to deliver for students. Sometimes students/parents fail to deliver for good teachers thereby failing to deliver for themselves. The people you speak of that vent their anger toward good teachers either because of a past bad experience, which is unfortunate, or they failed themselves as students and are now failing their children as parents. Knowing you are failing as a parent is a heavy burden to bear--anger follows.
August 16th, 2020 at 11:53 AM ^
I sympathize. Some of the parents at my wife's school have berated the administration for reiterating the mask policy, threatening to unenroll their children and send them somewhere where their rights will be respected. These parents apparently are unaware it's a statewide mask mandate. So good luck with the movers?
Honestly, I think we'll see a huge number of teacher and admin retirements this year. It's just not worth all the extra bullshit, on top of the normal school administration bullshit.
August 16th, 2020 at 12:27 PM ^
Education pods with private teachers will be a thing of the future and public education will take another major hit.
With club sports and AAU on the rise, schools no longer will even serve the purpose for athletics that traditionally home schooled kids missed out on, Tim Tebow excluded.
This will ultimately result in further gaps in educational experiences not only between the wealthy and the poor, but it will put a gap between the upper middle and middle classes against the lower middle class.
the problem with teachers being often held at the mercy of their public sector unions, is that ultimately they will weaken the very profession which they are trying to protect... and harm the class of people most vulnerable in the long run.
August 16th, 2020 at 3:57 PM ^
As much as I love the opportunity to blame unions for just about anything, I believe public teachers unions serve many noble purposes. The unions negotiate for a safe work environment for teachers, safe learning environment for children including limits on classroom size so children have better access to their instructors, and of course the wages/benefits. Given the importance of education, the salaries many teachers make pale in comparison to less educated persons in other fields. Having at least competitive wages with comparatively educated/less educated persons in other fields is the only way you can attract high quality teachers for the future. That being said, tenure is evil and some very poor teachers are far too protected--a failing of virtually all labor unions--often protecting those who shouldnt be protected. I dont have a good answer for this one other than more competent negotiation on the part of administration when contracts are renewed.
August 16th, 2020 at 9:59 AM ^
Sending my 4 year old to pre k tomorrow. My daughter will be remote learning for the time being as we have no other choice.
I do remember when it was 15 days to flatten the curve and then it morphed into never leave your house until the risk is magically at 0.
August 16th, 2020 at 10:01 AM ^
All y'all who say you have done some risk calculation are full of it. Here is a half assed risk calculation off the top of my head:
P(kid getting covid|in person)
P(kid getting covid|virtual)
Educational Value(in person)
Educational Value(virtual)
Health Value(not getting covid)
Health Value(getting covid)
P(in person goes virtual due to covid)
Educational Value(disruption switching from in person to virtual)
Value(virtual) = Educational Value(virtual) + Health Value(getting covid)*P(kid getting covid|virtual) + Health Value(not getting covid)*(1-P(kid getting covid|virtual)) etc.
Show me your calculation (existing, don't make one up) or shut up.
My kids are out of K-12. My college kid made the decision to stay home.
My impression is that most people who are gung-ho for in person school are arrogant trumpies who at best are acting on a gut feeling and at worse are mindless sycophants following their cult leader off a cliff.
August 16th, 2020 at 10:09 AM ^
Dude, wtf? Are you insane?
“show me your risk calculation or shut up”
yeah, because the only way to calculate risk is to sit down and create some complicated math equation that 80-90% of the population doesn’t know how to nor understand. (I do, I’m an engineer, but I’m still not doing that shit)
you’re saying no one has the agency to make a risk based decision without going through your specific method and, if they don’t adhere to your standards must be Trump sycophants? That is one hell of a leap. For someone who appears to value math, there is very little logic involved there.
And you forgot the HealthValue(no socialization)
August 16th, 2020 at 4:00 PM ^
Dude, wtf? Are you insane?
Insane, maybe. Angry---disturbingly so
August 16th, 2020 at 4:51 PM ^
Survival rate of elementary school aged children in COVID-19 environment has been reported to be 99.9997%. (Yeah, just one study. If you have a better one I will look at it. Please do not include children that were already hospitalized and too sick to go to school.)
Reminder - any number multiplied by ZERO is ZERO so multiplying something by close to zero (0.000003) isn't a risk that concerns me. And we know that a child living in a home with working adults and plays with other kids has a greater than zero chance of getting COVID-19.
August 16th, 2020 at 10:05 AM ^
My district was planning on offering both a hybrid model and online instruction only, back when Michigan had flattened the infection curve down below 200 cases per day.
Now that we're clocking over 1k they're offering online only for at least the first quarter. We signed up little Hatter for online only for the entire semester, even though that means he may have a different teacher.
I don't buy that children are less likely to spread the virus; anyone with kids knows they're little plague rats. And schools have been closed since March. My guess is that there would have been a lot more sick and dead kids had they stayed open.
My company is keeping everyone at home until at least January, and they were openly hostile to working from home before the pandemic.
If we had it under control like the rest of the civilized world, I'd be all for opening back up.
August 16th, 2020 at 12:37 PM ^
The rest of the civilized world doesn’t have it under control. It is going up in most European countries save Sweden. New Zealand ran their country like the Gestapo and had no cases for 3 months. Despite being on lockdown from foreigners and the strictest state run quarantine for all inbound residents, they now have community spread.
on top of it, our hospitals are incentivized to report patients as covid19. We do test more than any other country. Our deaths per capita are rising, but so are others. Furthermore, other countries actually try to suppress their actual case and death numbers to make themselves look good on the world stage. To suggest that other countries are better is myopic. This will run through community after community probably until herd immunity is created naturally or artificially Through vaccine