Ohio State Fanbase Collective Cognitive Dissonance
Finally, I get to use my worthless Psych degree from LS&A '92.
Been following 11W and a few other osu slappy boards just because, you know, schadenfreude. I think like a lot of folks here, I enjoy their misery a bit more than is healthy. Particularly the one poster who talked about Saturday "ruining everything he loved about osu, and he was done with 11W." Just glorious.
Anyway, something strange has emerged as I read these mindless, droning posts over there. There is still - even now - a pervasive belief that the sign-stealing scandal is THE reason for three straight losses -- including this past Saturday. There is zero ability from the bulk of this fan base to even process the notion that they were outplayed, outmuscled, and in the case of Saturday -- outcoached, despite an accumulation of data analysis which creates absolute clarity on the reasons for each loss. The entire fanbase assigns accountability farrrr below the broken narrative they greatly prefer. They were stolen from.
Cognitive dissonance occurs when you believe two conflicting things at the same time. In this case, the osu fanbase truly believes they lost because of the sign-stealing while ALSO begrudgingly accepting they lost via X's and O's, and horrendous coaching from cryin' ryan'. Generally speaking, cognitive dissonance breaks when one of the competing ideas takes control of future action. Under normal circumstances, you would think data would eventually direct their belief system. But I'm here to reinforce something most of you already know:
That fanbase down there will never give up the notion that they have been stolen from, and that Michigan's wins will forever be tainted because of it.
And to that I say (with all the power my stupid liberal arts degree can muster): F 'em.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:11 AM ^
My analysis……They’re just crazy!
November 29th, 2023 at 9:19 AM ^
That is why I am a Michigan fan. They are absolutely delusional.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:45 AM ^
A fanbase will latch onto an idea of why their team can't win and not let go until results change.
Go back and read posts on here from 2015-2020 and about how we can't beat OSU because they offer online classes and we dont, their recruiting is just too good, and we can't recruit good enough because of our academics and that we'll never do better than 10-2.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:55 AM ^
Add to the list of Michigan fan mental crutches, "They don't have to compete with an in-state rival for recruits", which was one of my personal go-tos.
Also, I did feel that for a long stretch Ohio State just cared more, or at least had a much meaner edge, than Michigan.
My formative years actively watching the rivalry were from 1985 onward into the Cooper era. Name me a time it was greater to be a Michigan Wolverine. As a fan, I got soft and entitled in this rivalry. Seems like the cycle has turned and now that's where Buck-nuts are.
OSU and its fans will always be, in my perception, more psychopathic about the rivalry. But they finally got the full attention of Michigan and its fans that they claimed they wanted out of "respect" for the tradition.
To that I say FAFO.
November 29th, 2023 at 10:03 AM ^
The instate thing is absolutely true, though
November 29th, 2023 at 10:33 AM ^
I agree. But it was still one of my mental crutches to explain away a larger problem and pain.
November 29th, 2023 at 10:45 AM ^
I used crutches like that until about 2015 or so. Then my mindset changed to kind of “we will lose to them until we don’t” cuz that’s just the way it is. That is the next step for OSU fans. At some point they will switch to football season will be fun until the Michigan game and then we’ll die. It will suck for a while and then, what do you know, they will beat Michigan and we will be searching for crutches, and then rinse, repeat.
However, OSU catches a break in that the ebbs and flows of the football season will change completely next year. The Mich/OSU game will never again mean what it meant this year.
Then again, that can go both ways. In some ways it helps them because Michigan is in control of the rivalry when it is not going to be life or death anymore. In another way, Michigan truly just won the last The Game in the way we have come to understand it. Part of the existential crisis OSU fans are going through is that they are not going to get a chance to avenge that, ever. They don’t get to get that taste out of their mouth.
November 29th, 2023 at 10:59 AM ^
Spot on. There is always multiple reasons a team loses, none of which matter after the fact. 2016, maybe JT was short, maybe there was a hold on the previous play, maybe there was pass interference on Darbo... But also OT never happens if Spieght doesn't throw some backbreaking interceptions among other things that we could have done to win. Doesn't matter, because we lost and we had to overcome the scars to finally get over the hump.
I do think it is glorious that we win the last version of "the game" that matters to get win number 1001 (MI). Sure one team may need a win against the other to make the big ten championship game or to improve playoff seeding, but nothing again will be this. Hell the next time they are undefeated, I would almost run a super vanilla version of the offense in the regular season matchup to have a better chance of winning the next week. It will be the exact opposite of this game, the one no one wants to win.
So in a sense, OSU can focus on being a championship quality team instead of a team that can beat michigan and also win a national championship. That should be freeing for them, but most do not have the requisite capacity to think this way.
November 29th, 2023 at 11:06 AM ^
Could have ended that last sentence at ".. capacity to think."
November 29th, 2023 at 12:37 PM ^
Not going to lament the idea that The Game has to be the be-all, end-all contest when that same cutting edge result is not the case in any other conference or national title consideration, especially the SEC where anything goes.
If the geniuses who run college football want to turn it into the NFL playoffs and Super Bowl format, I guess we have to accept it. More money for everyone.
The idea that Alabama and Georgia can anticipate Saturday's result won't necessarily eliminate Georgia or advance Alabama to the playoff is based on the idea that we owe something more to their seasonal struggle than a matchup between Washington and Oregon, where the loser is out on Friday night even if the winner might have split their seasonal games.
If Alabama wins on Saturday, why should Georgia still remain eligible for the CFP? That's not the way it will work next year or in any conference championship game elimination.
Certainly Michigan is out if it loses to Iowa, right? If Georgia loses, it shouldn't get a pass to keep playing because it hasn't lost the past two years. That's like giving the Yankees or the Astros special consideration because they are the all-time WS winners and most dominant MLB team in recent years. Can you imagine other franchise owners accepting that outcome?
So, what is this ultimately about, entertainment value or fairness? It's not really about fairness, as we've all learned firsthand. But it is about competitive bias. Ohio State lost. Too bad, so sad. Fuck you, you lost.
Michigan can't even get elevated to No. 1 after beating two top 10 teams in three weeks without their head coach based on no evidence that he did anything wrong except he's not liked by other Big Ten schools. Fuck you, you lost. When you lose, you suffer the consequences.
November 29th, 2023 at 11:15 AM ^
Are we really competing with an in state rival for recruits though?
November 29th, 2023 at 11:25 AM ^
Not so much anymore. But we were back in the Dantonio prime years.
November 29th, 2023 at 11:04 AM ^
As a fan, I got soft and entitled in this rivalry. Seems like the cycle has turned and now that's where Buck-nuts are.
This happens to every fanbase. MSU slappies always beat the "entitled, arrogant UM fan" drum when with peak irony they became exactly so after some mild success. The Ohio fanbase has a total lack of awareness with the same. It's people, being people.
November 29th, 2023 at 1:34 PM ^
Fair point, but it still warrants the mocking it's getting.
November 29th, 2023 at 11:45 AM ^
IDK man -- Just because we're better now than we were then does not change the fact that it's an advantage to only have 1 power 5 program (pre-Cincy) in a football mad state with 2x the population and better HS football.
We've mitigated and worked around these disadvantages but they still exist.
November 29th, 2023 at 10:38 AM ^
RE: 2015-2020
OSU was really good for a lot of the Cooper years, but we almost always beat them. These were the years I started rooting for Michigan in earnest so it feels like the natural order of things to me.
Tressel was a dirty cheater who somehow managed to pay players without anyone finding out. IMHO, he resigned due to Tattoo gate but mainly because he didn't want everything else to come out. OSU should have wandered the desert, but they lucked into a 2x National Championship winning coach in Urban Meyer. Meyer also started at OSU in 2012. In retrospect this was the perfect time to be the coach of OSU in the B1G.
1. Jerry Sandusky scandal broke in 2011. While Bill O'Brien and James Franklin sort of kept it together, PSU wasn't a decent team again until 2016.
2. Rich Rod and to a lesser extent Hoke tanked Michigan from 2008 to 2014-5. Michigan had a good year in 2011, but the wheels were still off as evidenced by the quick decline.
So Urban Meyer was basically competing against MSU, Iowa, Wisconsin and Purdue for his first three years, both on the field and on the recruiting trail. No wonder the OSU juggernaut got to the heights it did. He kept it going for 3 more years, and I can't explain The Game in 2018, but Meyer is gone after 2018. Meyer is a HOF coach and had some super talented teams that won a lot of games, but he benefitted from the same currents that made D'antonio seem like a good coach.
2015: Nick Bosa was a monster. I was at that game and was sad.
2016: We should have won. This was the first real challenge Meyer faced. A healthy Wilton Speight would have made a difference.
2017: We didn't have a QB.
2018: Patterson and DB defense can cover a crossing pattern.
2019: Patterson and Day riding Meyer's momentum.
2020: COVID
But oh happy Day! OSU doesn't have a 3x NC winning coach. Harbaugh has a solid coaching staff, defense and QB and OSU is regressing to the mean (which is really awesome teams that lose to Michigan i.e. Cooper)
I'm curious how Day will do when he has to play a fully operational Michigan, Oregon, USC, PSU, and 2-4 otther teams who happen to be decent in the B1G in any given year. OSU will be a three loss team next year.
November 29th, 2023 at 10:47 AM ^
Patterson actually played well in 2019. That OSU team was just ridiculous.
November 29th, 2023 at 11:01 AM ^
Patterson played well but the team overall didnt. Was the exact opposite of last saturday, a missed extra point by Nordin, a bunch of penalties including untying a guys shoe, and running into the punter to extend a drive for them, and DPJ dropping a wide open pass, and I forgot about Shea fumbling in the red zone.
November 29th, 2023 at 12:24 PM ^
Good post.
2018 is something of an outlier, where Michigan appeared to be ready to compete and win against OSU and got trucked. The rest of the results basically back up your thesis.
2016 was a "peak" roster year for Michigan. There were still significant holes; the QB was only ok, plus he was hurt, and the OL was only ok. The defense was exceptional. Michigan had the misfortune of having a peak roster year in a season where they played at OSU, which makes winning against another excellent team tougher.
2018 was a "peak" roster year and again Michigan had the bad luck to be in Columbus. The runaway nature of the game was devastating and skewed some of the analysis of where the programs actually were, though; I certainly overreacted to it a bit, though, 2019 was generally a disappointing season and that contributed.
But 2018 turned out to mostly an issue of Don Brown's defense, like Chip Kelly's offense, getting solved and Brown hitting his ceiling (losing Devin Bush hurt the scoreline quite a bit, though didn't change the result).*
But you combine those couple of events with the previous down years and you get a big opaque losing streak that conceals the fact that Michigan only brought teams with a reasonable chance of beating OSU to the field a couple of times.
One of the revelations of 2021 for me the tunnel yelling at halftime. Michigan did not have the game won by any stretch, but it was the first time since 2011 and second time since the Carr era that Michigan had a team that had something approaching parity with OSU *and was playing at home*.
Urban leaving has had an effect on OSU, but this is mostly a case of Harbaugh getting things together, getting a roster that sustains excellence through multiple years, getting a defense that doesn't have a fatal flaw, and having a tight game played at home instead of the road. It just took a little longer than we thought, but the "trust Harbaugh" argument that I jumped ship on was the right one.
*One thing that hasn't changed much is the offensive style and gameplan. It turns out to work just fine with Blake and JJ and Sherrone Moore coaching the OL.
November 29th, 2023 at 12:31 PM ^
Tiniest nit-pick: 2015 was actually *Joey* Bosa, not Nick. He was unblockable.
Nick came the same year UM got Gary (I think they were ranked 1st and 5th in the 247 composite that year). I don't remember him being a game-wrecker against UM in '16 or '17, and in '18 he was hurt and opted out of trying to come back to get ready for the draft.
November 29th, 2023 at 10:50 AM ^
Don't forget, they were paying players too....
November 29th, 2023 at 8:24 PM ^
Every one of those reasons is grounded in reality. The advanced scouting stuff is exaggerated bullshit. I’m not going to say Michigan fans don’t have a particular flavor of delusion or bias, but very few Michigan fans would call into question Ohio State’s skill, coaching and toughness for almost two goddamned decades. Yes, they have more legitimate pay for play scandals (possibly ongoing) that played a factor, but Michigan never bitched to the conference or NCAA via PI firm. Fuck their entire delusional program.
November 29th, 2023 at 10:54 AM ^
When Michigan was losing regularly (to OSU... and Toledo), we blamed it on coaching, lack of talent due to poor recruiting, etc. We were realist back then, except for our expectations with Brady Hoke after the Sugar Bowl season.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:24 AM ^
Crazy in a good way. As long as they blame "stolen signs," they have consolation from their pain without admitting underlying causes. Long live "stolen-sign syndrome." May it be consoling and soothing, with Bucks, Sparts, and rest of the somnambulist b1g easily accepting future losses to UM.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:59 AM ^
The worst thing Ohio State could do is believe it was signs and not their coaching or player development. They actually adjusted correctly for the most part the last 2 years (being more aggressive in 2022, being less aggressive in 2023). Their problem is player development in the trenches, and a mediocre QB this year. As long they're ignoring those problems, and they're stuck in their heads about each loss, we're golden.
November 29th, 2023 at 10:53 AM ^
in my opinion they DID recognize the reality that if their O and D lines are not competitive against us they can't beat us. And the Q3 drive where they ran at us was the most impressive part of their game on Saturday. If they had CJ Stroud vs Kyle McCord (and perhaps if Ryan Day had gone for it on 4th down) they could have won. So they've made progress where they need to - but it wasn't enough progress, they've receded at QB, and they were on the road. In spite of the sign stealing stuff of the fans; I thought their coaches had a better game plan than 2021 or 2022.
But this is still the best week of the year so far.
November 29th, 2023 at 11:25 AM ^
It's foolish to expect pigs to do anything more than grunt.
November 29th, 2023 at 11:43 AM ^
OSU fans got too used to winning under Tressel and then Urban. They completely forgot what it was like under John Cooper in the 1990s, pre Tressel.
They are not students of history because this rivalry has had its own cycles, It goes back even before Bo vs Woody.
Suffice to say, OSU fans are just too stupid to comprehend this history of the rivalry. So, let them drown in their sorrows and despair for another year or more. Yes, they are certainly crazy.
November 29th, 2023 at 12:46 PM ^
I mean, I'm 46 and I was a freshman in college for the Biakabatuka game in '95. The 1993 shocker was 30 years ago. I only remember 1992 was a tie because my dad took me to the game in Columbus (and it was very awkward after because no one knew what to say to the opposing fans; we all just kinda filed out).
I can tell you that UM won in 93, 95, 96, and 97, as well as 99 and 00, but other than Biakabatuka in 95 and Woodson in 97 I'm afraid I don't remember much specifically about those games because I was in HS/college and generally preoccupied with other stuff.
A lot of the OSU fanbase that is most vocal and cooler-pooper-y is too young to remember that time, and even those of my age remember "The Cooper Years" badly because of that; a lot of them don't remember how stacked his mid-90s teams were, especially that '98 team that gagged at home to Sparty.
They just remember that he didn't beat Michigan enough and those late 90s/2000 bed crapping teams with that led to him finally getting canned. Anyone under the age of 35 probably has no real lasting memory of Cooper's tenure at all.
November 29th, 2023 at 12:02 PM ^
Analysis, hell I never got past first impression
November 29th, 2023 at 12:17 PM ^
The funniest part to me are the OSU fans that are pissed off at the B1G for even allowing the game to take place. They think that Michigan's season should have been ended and the games forfeited to OSU and others that Michigan was supposed to play. Just think about how delusional that is. Even if Michigan committed something incredibly egregious, like hacking into a website to steal practice footage of OSU, do you think for one second that the TV execs would allow Michigan games to be cancelled, particularly the OSU/Mich game?? Yes, it was cancelled in 2020, but those were extraordinary circumstances. To think that the B1G should have cancelled the rest of Michigan's games for a Level 2 or 3 violation that provides a "minimal competetive advantage" that many other schools apparently do, and we're not even sure that Stallions actually broke that rule, is just mind-boggingly insane. Not to mention how much even more of a wussy OSU and their fans would be trying to avoid playing Michigan altogether.
November 29th, 2023 at 12:48 PM ^
It's the same sub-set of their fan base that still thinks Tressel got railroaded because "it was just some tattoos, what's the big deal?".
November 29th, 2023 at 12:19 PM ^
Buckeyes be crazy.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:16 AM ^
Ari Wasserman came on local sports talk yesterday evening with Nick Wilson/Dustin Fox. He went on to say that the worst part about these losses is Michigan isn't some juggernaut like Georgia. You analyze these losses and all you see is the things you did wrong to lose the game, not that they won it. He went on to say, "look, the fact is that Michigan is going to stink next year, the team won't be nearly as good as they were the last 3 years."
We beat your ass 3 straight years, and these pathetic assholes still can't even admit to themselves that it's because Michigan has a good team that was, and is, littered with NFL players.
To their credit, both Nick Wilson and Dustin Fox have been saying the exact opposite. Both of them have given proper respect to Michigan for eating their lunch.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:23 AM ^
Wasserman is the least ball knowing person in the entire college football media. Just looks at stars and assigns victories preseason. Turns out teams can develop talent!
November 29th, 2023 at 9:38 AM ^
Exactly. Ari Wasserman knows nothing about Xs and Os. It's really amazing that one could make a career out of covering CFB and not pick up even a little something.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:51 AM ^
I have noticed that obsession with recruiting rankings tends to do this to people. The flip side of it is writing kids off because they're "only" given 3 stars or whatever (see the recent thread about Colston Loveland's commitment).
I've disengaged from following recruiting and really don't miss it at all.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:25 AM ^
That's even better, because it's an incredible self-own. They've been manhandled 3 years straight by a bad team, in their own words.
Man, OSU must suck
November 29th, 2023 at 9:34 AM ^
Ari Wasserman is 100% the kid growing up who would jump up to hit the reset button right before he lost in Mario Kart, and then say he didn't actually lose.
November 29th, 2023 at 10:04 AM ^
Ari Wasserman is also 100% the mouthy kid in high school who would've gotten his head stuck into a toilet for a swirly back before crowd-sourcing assholes (now known as bullying) became illegal.
November 29th, 2023 at 10:35 AM ^
Ain't nothing like a swirly to set a kid right.
November 29th, 2023 at 12:53 PM ^
That's even better, because it's an incredible self-own.
Right? I kept seeing stuff on 11W and Twitter where their fans are like, "Literally any other playoff team will DESTROY Michigan. They're so mid." And it's like, YOU JUST LOST TO US. AGAIN. HOW DO YOU NOT SEE THE OWN-GOAL HERE.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:37 AM ^
A lot of them are consoling themselves in many ways "wins will be vacated, harbaugh will be gone, 40+ seniors leaving..."
Next year, the defense loses Jenkins, Moore, Paige, Barrett, Harrell...possibly Colson, replaced with guys who played a LOT of football this year. Next years DL, plus Will johnson and Hausmann is a great foundation. Throw in a transfer or 2 and it's another top 5ish defense.
November 29th, 2023 at 10:43 AM ^
The vacated 37-7 drubbing in 2010 didn't feel any better than the rest. It's not like it vacated Columbus and took up residence in Michigan's win column.
And why would talent leaving affect a talentless team?
Shorter OSU, to the Disney melody: "When you're wishing upon STARZZ, only shows how soft you are"
November 29th, 2023 at 9:49 AM ^
Ari "only stars matter" Wasserman is the absolute worst. Just a complete schmuck. I canceled my Athletic subscription primarily because of Wasserman and Stew Mandel.
November 29th, 2023 at 10:14 AM ^
Wasserman has no ability to evaluate beyond stars/“talent”. None. Players like Loveland and Sainristal are beyond his comprehension.
November 29th, 2023 at 11:05 AM ^
They have stars upon there hearts.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:17 AM ^
Nobody likes to lose, but in life it is unavoidable. You simply are not going to win at everything.
How you deal with that says a lot about you.
I would like to think that I can learn from my mistakes and get better - in fact, I think making mistakes can be an important part of growth.
So if you can't even admit you lost or made a mistake, you end up a very stunted person indeed.