Officials Spotting of the Ball
So I am just curious if just because UM won anyways the refs from last night are pretty much going to get off scot free from what was pretty obvious spotting favoring Alabama all game? It was quite honestly the most obvious case of that occuring for an entire game that I have seen watching a college football game.
January 2nd, 2024 at 6:37 PM ^
The holding that gets called is more often grabbing of the shirt than bear hugs. In either case, it only gets called when the official sees it and in his determination it reasonably had an effect on the play, generally at or near the point of attack on a run play, or in preventing a sack, or in pass coverage. The rest, they ignore.
January 2nd, 2024 at 1:36 PM ^
I noticed it last night and it’s felt pervasive since the “scandal” broke.
It’s never crazy in the sense of, like, 3-4 extra yards. But it has felt undeniably consistent.
Im not a conspiracy theorist in that I think this has been orchestrated in any way, I think Michigan is just getting the Villain treatment.
Be careful who you make the villain.
January 2nd, 2024 at 1:36 PM ^
Speaking of spotting, did anyone else spot Seth in the crowd? It was in the third quarter, one of those moving overhead shots coming back from a commercial. He was in the lower left of the screen. I pointed to the TV and yelled "hey! That's Seth from MGoBlog!" My ever indulgent wife just looked at me like I was crazy and then said "this is a cult" and then I said "Hey! Did you read the NYTimes piece? It is a cult, but one that saves people!"
January 2nd, 2024 at 1:39 PM ^
January 2nd, 2024 at 3:57 PM ^
<deleted> responded to wrong reply.
January 2nd, 2024 at 1:38 PM ^
I spotted Seth standing with the Sklars in the stands during the broadcast. Does that count for anything?
January 2nd, 2024 at 1:43 PM ^
you get two upvotes for timing
January 2nd, 2024 at 1:39 PM ^
You get an inch advantage for each five star recruit on your roster. "It just means more" is also worth some generous spots and swallowing of the whistle. I believe Cam Goode found that out as he was taken down on a clear missed assignment.
January 2nd, 2024 at 1:39 PM ^
We Won.
And yes, it's Michigan vs. Everybody.
Go Blue.
January 2nd, 2024 at 1:41 PM ^
Could it be a case where the ref is giving a little more due to forward progress?
January 2nd, 2024 at 1:42 PM ^
That was not all that was wrong with the refs.
No calls:
-Illegal hands to face.
-Several missed holding calls.
-Two times Michigan player was WWF body slammed.
-Obivous unnecessary roughness on JJ McCarthy out of bounds.
-Bredeson's unnecessary roughness, but the no call when Alabama D lineman did the same thing to Mich O lineman (believe it was Keegan) during a run play that happened right next to the hit.
-And a possible face mask on Corum on his last TD run.
I am just glad that it didn't completely have a negative outcome on the game's outcome.
January 2nd, 2024 at 1:46 PM ^
Is there an argument for the Bredeson call? I don't think I've ever seen a flag there. I thought he did what you're coached to do.
January 2nd, 2024 at 1:46 PM ^
But I guess that is my point, just because UM still won they are just going to get off scot free from any criticism. But also that unlike normal incompetence I think it was delibrate.
January 2nd, 2024 at 1:55 PM ^
Here's my Q on Bredeson's penalty: why was that not a dead ball foul (because I thought Corum already had the first down)? I thought they were going to give us the first down and then back us up the yardage, but the next play was 2nd down.
January 2nd, 2024 at 2:01 PM ^
It wasn't a dead ball foul because the ball wasn't dead. He did have the first down, almost simultaneously with the block that drew the flag, and if they were going to call it, it should have been 1st down and then lose the distance.
But I don't think the officials knew exactly what to do because officials never call unnecessary roughness for a live ball block that may have been the reason a player picked up a first down.
Lol.
January 2nd, 2024 at 1:55 PM ^
No face mask on the Corum TD. I thought so live but the defender got him by the collar, not the mask.
And if you're going to list questionable non-calls you have to include our running-into-the-punter that wasn't.
January 2nd, 2024 at 2:04 PM ^
the defender got him by the collar, not the mask.
That's also a penalty. Also uncalled. Also ignored by the announcers. They were too busy calling Anthony Thomas "Anthony Thompson".
January 2nd, 2024 at 2:17 PM ^
Not really because it was obvious dude left his leg extended far longer than normally intentionally trying to draw a penalty.
January 2nd, 2024 at 1:55 PM ^
The first body slam was actually worse, and I doubt they showed it on TV. Receiver down field flipped our DB well after the play.
January 2nd, 2024 at 2:34 PM ^
The Corum one wasn't a facemask. I thought so too at first, but on replay the hand was on the neck and collar. It was closer to a horse collar but he didn't really grab the jersey and haul Corum down.
January 2nd, 2024 at 1:52 PM ^
Herbstreit was actually calling it for the refs. When Thaw muffed the punt he stated (no conjecture) that it was inside the 1/2 yard line. It was entirely NOT based on the replay he'd already seen several times.
This current crop of color commentators just say things to fill space; accuracy and relevance are not factors they seem to consider.
January 2nd, 2024 at 1:56 PM ^
the refs were not great, but they were not great both ways. Alabama O-Line got away with a lot of holding but so did Michigan (especially with Wallace on that 3rd down play in OT). They basically let both teams play.
January 2nd, 2024 at 3:13 PM ^
The Wallace play was a clear push off before the hold so the no call there was correct imo.
January 2nd, 2024 at 1:57 PM ^
Refs in college football have been horrible at spotting the ball for a looong time. I noticed a couple years ago they finally gave up even trying and have just been spotting it at the nearest full yard mark. You pretty much never see it spotted at a quater or half yard anymore.
January 2nd, 2024 at 2:02 PM ^
This was not the worst case of it I've witnessed. In '97 Nebraska wasn't just protected with the illegal kick and ref shaft job at Missouri. When they played Colorado that season the refs long marked Nebraska and short marked Colorado every damn play.
January 2nd, 2024 at 2:12 PM ^
I thought this for a second on a Milroe run but it was just that the viewing angle was bad. I think the refs did a good job not influencing the game too much
January 2nd, 2024 at 2:17 PM ^
I didn't notice it that consistently except one egregious one where the Alabama player went out of bounds at the 41 and they spotted it at the 45 for some inexplicable reason. The rest of the time it was the usual weird spots that all college refs seem to do.
January 2nd, 2024 at 2:18 PM ^
Play that had me scratching my head was Milroe's QB sneak for a first down pretty early on. Not only did he not reach the line to gain, but then the refs didn't even measure for a 1st down. Ball was in the middle of the field, not on the hash, definitely not something you can eyeball. And the refs immediately signal 1st down and move on with the game.
Plain and simple, until the NCAA and the NFL add the equipment necessary to spot the ball correctly every play, ball spotting will never be right and always be susceptible to foul play. Go out and earn it, don't let it come down to a game of inches. Just like the last play. No where near the goal line because of a great tackle on third down and dominating the LOS on 4th down. Take it out of the refs hands when you remove that guessing game.
January 2nd, 2024 at 2:24 PM ^
I was also surprised that they didn't measure, but I almost wonder if they shouldn't measure that? On very short yardage, the line judge and the down judge are staring right down the LOS and have a great view of whether or not the sticks are crossed. I'm not sure that taking a mental note of what you thought the further forward progress was, putting the ball there, and then measuring is going to produce a more accurate answer? More precise, for sure, but probably not more accurate.
January 2nd, 2024 at 2:21 PM ^
Overall I thought the officiating was fine. They missed stuff both ways and deciding to swallow the whistle on holding probably benefits the team with a better bull rush (us) over the team with more of a speed rush (them).
One thing that I haven't seen any explanation of was on the Morris TD. I thought it was pretty clear that the defender had his fingers inside the collar of the shoulder pad, so it should've been a horse collar, no? It was a minimal impact thing, would've made a slightly shorter extra point, but still bugged me.
January 2nd, 2024 at 2:22 PM ^
Please shut up with the conspiracy theory BS. That shit is destroying our culture. They made some bad spots, fine. But not because of a conspiracy.
January 2nd, 2024 at 2:45 PM ^
i thought it was crappy both ways, to be honest. but it's always dicey - 99% of the time milroe would've gotten the benefit of the doubt on that scramble to get to 3rd and a half-yard (third quarter?).
January 2nd, 2024 at 4:08 PM ^
In general I thought the officiating was quite good overall.
If ALA got a couple of favorable spots, MICH benefited from a missed running into the kicker that would have given ALA a first down and possession and the refs did a good job to catch the foot OB on the game-opening interception.
The crew was really solid. Here's the write up from Football Zebras:
A Rose by any other name...: Six officials today are returning to Pasadena after working last year's Rose Bowl. They are referee Michael Vandervelde, umpire Robert Richeson, head line judge Andy Warner, line judge Keith Garmond, side judge Fulton Carson, and center judge Chris Tallent.
All crew members worked a bowl game last year. In addition to the returning Rose Bowl officials, field judge Gariel DeLeon worked the Citrus Bowl, back judge Daniel Young was in the Sun Bowl, alternate official Tuta Salaam headed the Birmingham Bowl crew, and the replay crew of Mark Marsden and Buddy Gingras worked the Pinstripe Bowl.
Vandervelde was the referee for the XFL Championship Game in May. Richeson, Warner, and DeLeon also worked the XFL in 2023.
The NFL's training and development pipeline -- the Mackie Development Program -- includes 4 of today's officials on its current rosters: Richeson (since 2017), Warner (2023), DeLeon (2020), and Young (2021).
Warner, Carson, and Young were on the Big 12 Championship Game crew in December.
And there are rumors that Mike Vandervelde is in the NFL pipeline.
This was a good group of refs.
January 2nd, 2024 at 5:00 PM ^
I think the bigger problem is that the game of football is being reduced to 1st & 9.5 instead of 10.
For the sake of not slowing down the game (due to reviews, etc) they have pretty much all but eliminated measurements at both the college and NFL level. I can recall maye two chain measurements all year in both sports. Granted, I cannot watch every game played but it is down and there was even an article going into the numbers a bit ago. These days they just kinda give it to you if you're close.
So it creates a game that skews even further toward the offense than it naturally does. What does this have to do with bad spotting? It just makes it easier for refs to put their thumb on the scales. I don't necessarily think the refs were jobbing anyone last night but if there were a crooked group in a game, it's now much easier to slowly help or job a team with spotting alone.
January 2nd, 2024 at 6:53 PM ^
When they change or interpret the rules, it tends to be in favor of the offense. Also can't discount the possibility that, to speed up the game (and get to the next commercial!) the replay officials are in their ear about that stuff, maybe even sneaking a peak at the TV broadcast and the unofficial yellow line, and if it's close at all, they'll give it to the offense.