Nothing Burger
Here it is. A low level staffer — not even on the coaching staff — breaks down video of opposing teams. Gasp.
‘The article does make clear that doing so is not illegal, yet it spends several paragraphs addressing Harbaugh’s potential punishment and concludes — for some reason — that this is worse that the Astros and Patriots.
The issue is this: did this staffer go to games of opponents and tape them. The NCAA has nothing and they know it. (That’s why they are asking for his computer).
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38700739/michigan-staf…
October 20th, 2023 at 1:45 AM ^
But a source said it was known in the building that he spent much of his time deciphering opponents' signals, often watching television copies of opponents' games.
That.... is... not suspicious.
"Michigan's org chart seems strange" doesn't really rise to a Level I violation. There's a lot of innuendo here with very little substance.
October 20th, 2023 at 2:37 AM ^
Yeah, this feels like the Endless Self Promotion Network trying to make this mole hill into a mountain.
October 20th, 2023 at 8:16 AM ^
ESPN and the Athletic are proving to be about as serious as E! News or Buzzfeed
October 20th, 2023 at 8:37 AM ^
I had a higher opinion on Athletic but their story keeps changing. They turned out to be a hack as well. We all know ESPN is shit.
October 20th, 2023 at 9:06 AM ^
Yeah the media is spinning this out of control. Now we are using his linkedin profile and him renting out rooms in his house on Airbnb to make extra money as proof he's breaking rules?
Such a bizarre article.
October 20th, 2023 at 1:51 AM ^
This would be like investigating a bat boy for stealing signs in the steroid era.
October 20th, 2023 at 1:56 AM ^
In what world does a "vast network" consist of exactly one low level staffer that breaks down game tape for the coaching staff?
Also, if the game tape is public and available to every university football team, how is that sign stealing, wouldn't it be sign giving by the other teams?
October 20th, 2023 at 2:54 AM ^
Exactly. This is really the only logical explanation for the alleged "vast network" of scouts or whatever, that he had his buddies go check out some of these games.
October 20th, 2023 at 6:43 AM ^
Fuck covering any tracks. Let's hear exactly what this guy supposedly did. Because I bet what he did was watch available video and nobody got sent to any games.
October 20th, 2023 at 8:19 AM ^
My first thought was this seems almost impossible to prove without video evidence of this happening outright.
I feel like the NCAA is a wounded, dying animal making its final grasping effort for life and relevance
October 20th, 2023 at 9:51 AM ^
He might have complete autonomy to “get the job done” or perhaps he took it upon himself to do it without the coaching staffs knowledge even if they told him specifically not to do it.
Unless this low level analyst has crazy autonomy and a big budget, I'm not sure sure how this could would have the capabilities to run an off the books network of scouts
October 20th, 2023 at 2:07 AM ^
They probably got this Marine taking in a PSU game on his drive back home to VA.
October 20th, 2023 at 2:25 AM ^
I doubt he went to any of our opposing teams games. So, he used television game tape to decipher formations and potentially connect them to play calls or even play cards if he could see them. I'm sure the NCAA has some grainy video of this dude way up in the stands. that's him can't you see it's him.
October 20th, 2023 at 2:16 AM ^
Get with it, man. Harbaugh has the entire USMC scouting Maryland.
October 20th, 2023 at 2:28 AM ^
I just think Frames is the type of coach who would report nothing to everything to the NCAA on Harbaugh.
October 20th, 2023 at 3:10 AM ^
The staffer recruited a bunch of non-Michigan affiliated 3rd parties to attend games and record sidelines of future Michigan opponents. That's the so-called "vast network." Wait until the story comes out of how he recruited the "scouts." It's Bud Fox level hustle that would make Gordon Gekko smile.
Obviously he'll lose his analyst gig at Michigan and probably have a show-cause if he ever wants to get near a college AD again but he's 100% going to land a plum job doing corporate espionage work eventually.
The Michigan Difference.
October 20th, 2023 at 3:37 AM ^
I would hope so. It's doing violence to the spirit of the rule but not the letter as I read it. Might be a "follow the money" situation.
October 20th, 2023 at 3:58 AM ^
Are you saying you know this for certain?
October 20th, 2023 at 4:13 AM ^
About the 3rd party "scouts"? Yes.
About what's going to happen to Captain Stalion? Just conjecture.
October 20th, 2023 at 4:26 AM ^
Well that could end up being enough for the NCAA to lay down the hammer on Harbaugh and the program.
October 20th, 2023 at 9:51 AM ^
Yup. Goodbye National Championship hopes
October 20th, 2023 at 4:53 AM ^
How do you know this?
October 20th, 2023 at 11:26 AM ^
That information has been provided to the proprietors of this establishment.
October 20th, 2023 at 3:19 PM ^
My understanding is that, while this may be ethically questionable, it is not an NCAA violation.
It is only a violation if the staffer, say Stalions himself attended the practice.
October 20th, 2023 at 8:41 AM ^
"About the 3rd party "scouts"? Yes."
How do you know this?
October 20th, 2023 at 6:45 AM ^
I don't believe you. Where is a low level staffer going to get money for this?
Sorry if I'm missing some sarcasm.
October 20th, 2023 at 10:01 AM ^
By renting out rooms on airbnb.
October 20th, 2023 at 10:10 AM ^
He's retired USMC Cpt... so he has a pension (probably 40 to 45K) in addition to his salary.
I wouldn't think offering someone a free ticket and a few bucks would probably be enough.
October 20th, 2023 at 12:05 PM ^
I know some media articles say he "retired", but you don't "retire" from the military after 5 years. He separated from the Marine Corps with 5 years of service plus his USNA time, and even if he took the blended retirement, he doesn't have any real pension money.
Nitpicking aside, I'm guessing the money came from elsewhere.
October 20th, 2023 at 12:58 PM ^
well fuck, my bad!!!!.... i assumed he did 20 and retired... since the article said he was retired.
i shouldn't expect material printed by a 'journalist' to be factual.
October 20th, 2023 at 5:33 PM ^
Yeah, the editing and fact checking on these stories leaves much to be desired.
October 20th, 2023 at 8:26 AM ^
maybe he gets a job in Maryland, wearing purple and black......
October 20th, 2023 at 8:27 AM ^
If this is what it boils down to--low level program employee/analyst got unaffiliated people to attend opponent games and film the signs--then it really is a nothing burger.
Seems like technical compliance with the rule (no program personnel did any in-person scouting), but also a skirting of the spirit/purpose behind the rule.
Burger gate is the opposite--a technical violation of the rule, but in a way that really does not provide any meaningful advantage and, therefore, does not go against the spirit/purpose behind the rule.
But keep in mind the bigger picture. Tampering to get guys to transfer is rampant. Paying $10,000 just to get a recruit to visit campus is rampant (so rampant that coaches openly talk about it). And the bag cash for a visit....obviously has NOTHING to do with compensation for NIL. Yet where is the NCAA on these actual competitive advantage issues?
IOW, NCAA is wasting time on ticky tacky trivial stuff while letting mayhem and bloodletting go on without a peep.
October 20th, 2023 at 9:35 AM ^
OK. So this "network" consists of Stalions' buddies/contacts that are attending a football game, very likely on their own dime. If Connor Stalions is smart enough to decode football signals, my guess is he is also smart to cover his tracks regarding this so-called operation. These "buddies" are likely not paid to go do this work. But if they were, and the NCAA can find the proof, then I would agree we probably have serious problems. But if they were not paid to do this then what does the NCAA have? I'd argue that they have nothing. This network are just football fans attending a football game and recording video on their personal cell phones.
Big picture, everyone has a cell phone these days. There are thousands recording video in the stands of any football game at any time. ANY ONE of these people could be a spy and nobody would be the wiser. Shaking my damn head...
October 20th, 2023 at 10:44 AM ^
If Connor Stalions is smart enough to decode football signals, my guess is he is also smart to cover his tracks regarding this so-called operation.
The fact we're discussing his (alleged) scheme on a public message board means he was definitely not smart enough to cover his tracks. IF the Stalions smoke is true, then our best hope is that the way he did it technically didn't violate the rules and Harbaugh didn't know. It's terrible optics though
October 20th, 2023 at 11:43 AM ^
How much of a competitive advantage did this actually give Michigan is what I'd like to know
October 20th, 2023 at 2:36 PM ^
You obviously have knowledge of some of what's happened here.
The real question, then, is WHAT EXACTLY WAS DONE with the information obtained from these non-Michigan affiliated 3-rd parties.
If it just went to Conner and ended there or if he used some of it and gave it to coordinators without them knowing he was doing any of this, then the story ends there. It simply has no legs.
If he was instructed to undertake these actions and/or others higher up in the chain of command knew about it, that's a different story.
One thing is pretty certain: none of this came from Harbaugh as he would never trust a lower-level guy with this sort of thing. In addition, Harbaugh has spent his entire life in the football world and he very clearly does not have this sort of reputation.
Since Conner is likely the only one that has the sort of information required to make this a big deal -- bet that the buck ultimately stops with him.
October 20th, 2023 at 4:27 PM ^
He hooked up with coeds at every school Michigan plays and recruited them to film the sidelines?
October 20th, 2023 at 2:01 AM ^
We're fucked. The statement that it's worse than the Astros and Patriots is so fucking ludicrous and such bullshit. That's how I know we're fucked. Think I'm being hysterical? Logic and facts would suggest this is no big deal. C'mon. NCAA doesn't care about fairness. We're fucked. They're so allergic to Harbaugh that they're gonna actually do this to us. Wouldn't be surprised if we have to forfeit this season eventually or vacate games. The NCAA is gonna nail us real good. Maybe better to get it over with and move on. Probably the end of Harbaugh. Warde will capitulate. It's pretty shocking to me that this is happening. I don't think Michigan will be allowed to have success until the NCAA is gone. It's gonna be rough from here on out boys. Pucker up and get ready for BPONE.
Getting negged because you don't like what I say, but it's true. Resistance is futile. That's if Warde and Mich had a backbone to even try to resist.
October 20th, 2023 at 5:05 AM ^
of COURSE you’re being hysterical. it’s your schtick.
and you’re not getting negged because anyone dislikes what you’re saying. you’re being negged because you appear to be a completely miserable person.
October 20th, 2023 at 8:05 AM ^
It’s hard not to feel like he does, though. It is clear that there are people inside the NCAA and the BIG who have an axe to grind with Michigan. Regardless of how trivial this actually seems to be it does feel foreboding.
October 20th, 2023 at 8:36 AM ^
It’s hard not to feel like he does, though.
that's not correct. it's easy to not be hysterical. it's easy to not say "we're fucked" at every single thing that happens. it's easy to not see everything as a vast conspiracy. doing so is a choice, and a schtick.
October 20th, 2023 at 9:03 AM ^
Exactly. It's not like Michigan gets the death penalty for this. This is small potatoes in a few months. Everyone forgot about the times Auburn, OSU, FSU, Louisville, Penn State, etc, had similar or worse circumstances involving their programs. Even MSU's current scandal has given way to ours in the public discourse. The NCAA will move on to fucking over some other school in no time.
What I fear this does accomplish though is pushing Harbaugh out. I think thats the intention of all this bullshit in the first place.
I understand Joe's frustration though. I feel it too. We do everything we can to do things the right way (in comparison to the usual suspects; I know we're not perfect) and this university falls on its sword the moment the spotlight is thrust upon it. My opinion? Fuck that. And fuck the NCAA. Fuck all these other fanbases claiming moral superiority over something that every school does in some capacity or another while simultaneously buying recruits cars and prostitutes and whatever the fuck else they do, long before NIL was a thing.
It's not fair. And nobody other than us will see it that way. That's fine. In a "scandal" involving anything less than sexual or physical assault, winning trumps it. At the end of the day, OSU and Sparty are still soft and will have their spines caved in by us in due time. And at least our coach doesn't tug it to the voice of a sexual harassment advocate.
October 20th, 2023 at 10:42 AM ^
I don't think it is a "vast conspiracy" anymore than I think it was a "vast network." I think the NCAA hates Harbaugh because he does not treat them like Gods-among-men so they are out to get him. You think its a coincidence that this story comes out right as they are in acute discussions regarding an extension? I got a bridge to sell you, then.
It's clear this season means a lot to MeanJoe so he is venting. We are all Michigan fans, this is a good place to do it.
October 20th, 2023 at 11:27 AM ^
Dudek? Is that you?
October 20th, 2023 at 6:56 AM ^
Please consider using Concerned Joey, nothing about that post was mean
October 20th, 2023 at 10:33 AM ^
I liked it better when they pretended to be a koala.
October 20th, 2023 at 7:00 AM ^
Need to change your name to “ParanoidMeanJoe07”
October 20th, 2023 at 2:01 AM ^
If he flew back and forth on his own dime as a volunteer assistant coach for 7 years, that is one dedicated dude.