NCAA Opens Investigation Into UM Scouting Opp and Stealing Signs
More than a rumor....ugh
October 19th, 2023 at 12:24 PM ^
Jesus H......
October 19th, 2023 at 1:25 PM ^
Is it just me or can signs or play calls not be changed?
Unless Nostradamus suits up for UM, no team actually knows what play you're going to run until the ball is snapped. Now, they can predict and it appears that a lot of MSU's opponents have done that surprisingly well but they can always change them.
Maybe MSU and other opponents should study the Windtalkers movie for motivation?
October 19th, 2023 at 6:35 PM ^
You are drastically overestimating the ability of MSU football players to learn.
October 19th, 2023 at 1:27 PM ^
Well, if we're somehow stealing signs we're not doing a very good job at it for bowl games
October 19th, 2023 at 5:51 PM ^
I mean bowl matchups aren’t decided until the regular season/conference championships - there wouldn’t be any games for the “alleged” filming to take place, right?
October 19th, 2023 at 1:30 PM ^
I can virtually guarantee this is gonna fuck us. Vacated games, post season ban, Harbaugh gets a long suspension, etc. I'm convinced there's a conspiracy to take down Michigan and Harbaugh. Another school could drown puppies in trashbags with underage hookers next to a pile of guns and pipe bombs while shouting excerpts of Mein Kampf in front of a burning cross on the lawn of the NCAA office after they kidnapped Scott Frosts mom and make her strangle kittens with gold chains they purchased with NIL money donated from the cartel and get a slap on the wrist. Harbaugh farts in the wrong direction or buys a homeless man a cheeseburger in front of a recruit and they crucify him.
October 19th, 2023 at 1:34 PM ^
If the NCAA were to actually try to make us vacate wins, I suspect (hope?) that would be the catalyst for the long-awaited breakaway. The NCAA's blatant hypocrisy and double standards cannot be tolerated when actual wins/championships are at stake.
October 19th, 2023 at 1:53 PM ^
Interesting the timing of this all.
snoozer of a rivalry game on prime time. Galvanizes the interest of the team that's lost 4 in a row.
Going after Harbaugh about something because cheeseburgers didn't break him this summer.
In the final stages of signing an extension. This might be just the trick to get him back to the NFL>
October 19th, 2023 at 2:15 PM ^
That is exactly what I am thinking: to get Harbaugh either fired from Michigan or get him to exit and go back to the NFL.
The whole thing about this is 100% bullsh!t.
Makes you wonder does Georgia do the same thing because how else can you explain their 21 game winning streak?
October 19th, 2023 at 3:14 PM ^
Why would Michigan fire Harbaugh for this?
October 19th, 2023 at 5:52 PM ^
This could be the straw that breaks the camels back. Honestly at this time I wouldn’t blame him. This bullshit has gotten really old. The crap the NCAA turns their backs on and then wants to break UMs balls over is fucking ridiculous
October 19th, 2023 at 1:35 PM ^
Unfortunately, I agree this is a possibility.
The timing of this suggests the NCAA is out for blood.
There is a paywalled article in the Atlantic that said MSU has considered not playing the game this weekend, and I am guessing they will not be the last. It is also a factor that could be considered by the Playoff committee even if Michigan is unbeaten.
This is a serious situation for the program. They cannot sit on this without responding in some fashion, like now. Michigan needs to have somebody at the podium by 1:30 PM.
October 19th, 2023 at 1:36 PM ^
As stated in the report and multiple articles, sign stealing is not against the rules, but in-person scouting of in-season opponent is. If the NCAA can prove Michigan did that, is vacating wins a possibility?
October 19th, 2023 at 2:21 PM ^
This is my concern here too. Is there any way these leads to vacated wins and possibly not getting a chance at the Championship this year?
October 19th, 2023 at 2:45 PM ^
We're done. You don't come back from this. You think there's gonna be an article saying "Evidence Reviewed Fair and Square and Michigan Proves They Didn't Steal Signs. NCAA Drops Investigation". Hahahaha. We're fucking cooked. Season is over. We can play the games for fun, but it's over.
October 19th, 2023 at 3:45 PM ^
If I'm reading this piece from ESPN right, the accusation sounds like it's having people at other teams' games figuring out the signs? From the stands? I get that sending someone to film practices is a garbage practice, but if sending someone to watch OSU-PSU, for example, and taking notes is verboten, that's absurd. You'd be getting dinged for doing smart due diligence.
If you think of how we've been caught by surprise several times early in games this season, then adjusted, it certainly doesn't suggest knowing what they were coming in with. But I'm afraid this casts a pall, even if unproven. This could hang over everyone's heads, with every success being questioned. It will be a 'have you stopped beating your wife' kind of scenario. Deflating.
October 19th, 2023 at 4:06 PM ^
I don't think any of the details matters. NCAA is out to get Michigan and they will because we probably technically did violate some rule. They control the narrative. The same rule that every team probably violates among many others, except the neckbeard rat fucks at the NCAA don't get sexually aroused by going after them. Only Michigan.
October 19th, 2023 at 4:16 PM ^
It is a real trap, agree. I don't understand when some of the people expressing pessimism here are getting slammed. And arguing that everyone is doing it but you aren't is probably not a stance that a lawyer would encourage.
October 19th, 2023 at 1:50 PM ^
If there was ever a time to tell the NCAA and the media folk with pitchforks to fuck off, that time has arrived.
Whether they did this or not, someone please have the balls to stand up to the powers that be and show them every other football scouting department in the country all the way down to the pee-wee leagues of Texas for "stealing" signs.
I was all set to let this week play out quietly and take the W and move along. Now I really hope the players and staff use this as motivation for the rest of the year.
October 19th, 2023 at 4:50 PM ^
You've hit the nail on the head. Michigan takes too much shit from the NCAA lying down so NCAA likes to make an example out of Michigan. I don't think it's that they just hate Michigan or Harbaugh. There's some benefit they seem to think they're getting out of nitpicking the stupidest fuckin shit when it comes to our program.
October 19th, 2023 at 1:59 PM ^
Why is this even illegal? All team SHOULD try and steal signs
October 19th, 2023 at 3:27 PM ^
They do. It’s just how you go about it. If we had a staffer watching an opponent in person then the pricks will have all the “evidence they need. If a teams dumb assed enough to not change up signs every game then they’re idiots. As a baseball player and later coach, we changed signs every game and sometimes during.
October 19th, 2023 at 7:50 PM ^
That sentence was the most wondefully deranged collection of awfulnesss I've ever read! You have a very bright future either in Hollywood or writing advertising scripts. Bravo!
👍👍
October 19th, 2023 at 10:16 PM ^
I’m not saying you stole my shit but I’m pretty sure I was gonna write this word for word. At the very least jinx you owe me a Coke.
October 19th, 2023 at 1:30 PM ^
Going to need someone to explain to me why we would bother stealing signs for ECU, UNLV, Bowling Green, Rutgers, and all the other trash teams we've demolished lol
October 19th, 2023 at 1:35 PM ^
btw, the quote from the Athletic article is a doozy:
The league claims that Michigan, as one source with knowledge of the allegation said, is using a “vast network” to steal opposing team’s signs. The league told Michigan State it has reviewed film that shows UM clearly knowing what play an opposing team is going to run before the play occurs.
October 19th, 2023 at 1:39 PM ^
Why would the league tell MSU? That is quite a doozy of a quote.
October 19th, 2023 at 1:47 PM ^
And is the conference coordinating with the NCAA? Who is investigating here?
October 19th, 2023 at 1:58 PM ^
The article says Warde discussed this with the Big Ten Commish yesterday, but was has not yet been provided with any of the NCAA's evidence surrounding these claims.
So it doesn't appear at this point that Michigan has even been asked to cooperate with this investigation.
October 19th, 2023 at 3:33 PM ^
Yeah, the part where MSU was told by the league at the same time/possibly before UM is quite weird. I have to assume that's just a poorly-written sentence or a source was wrong because otherwise I'd have some real questions about the league office.
October 19th, 2023 at 1:40 PM ^
so what's the point of an audible?
October 19th, 2023 at 1:41 PM ^
Tony Romo did that just about every week from the broadcast booth and I don't think he was stealing signs
October 19th, 2023 at 1:42 PM ^
Yeah, let's wait and see on this one. Luke Kuechly used to call out opponents plays constantly before the snap because he could tell by alignment, down and distance, and film study what the call would be. Given we've got a 6th year LB for president and film devotee and 5th year Mike Sainristil and college teams have limited practice time, I'd be shocked if they couldn't suss out some of the plays pre-snap.
Alternatively, if we have a "vast network"/bunch of staffers in game working to decode signs within the bounds of the rules, then what? I don't really like it, but it does seem preventable, and we have to spend time changing/protecting ours as well...
October 19th, 2023 at 1:43 PM ^
How would the film “clearly show that”?
October 19th, 2023 at 1:54 PM ^
Isn't that just called good defense? If it's happening 100% of the time, I guess that's suspicious. But if it's merely happening "a lot," can't that just be good defense, good coaching, good film review?
None of it makes any sense. JJ threw 3 picks to BGSU. We gave up big play TDs to get down early to Rutgers and Indiana. If our sign-stealing was that good, wouldn't every game be 77-0? Are they suggesting we deliberately give up chunks to get down early in games to overmatched opponents? Are they suggesting the much-reduced rushing output from our RBs is just a trick? Like Blake and Donovan are like totally fine that they're not #1 and #2 in the Heisman running right now? If so, the entire damn team deserves Oscars.
October 19th, 2023 at 2:08 PM ^
Clearly, we didn't sign steal versus BGSU and JJ sucks when he's not cheating.
In all seriousness, my guess is...if you think your opponent is stealing signs. You don't adjust? You just take the ass whooping all game?
No one went into halftime and said, "guys, they know our signs...we're changing it up."
We've been destroying teams from kicking to 00:00 in the 4th quarter. I feel like someone would've switched it up, had a solid second half and the debate would be "see, we would've won if Michigan didn't cheat. When it was even, we played better."
Oh and fuck Greg Schiano, because this 100% feels like him. He was the one pissed at halftime for no reason.
October 19th, 2023 at 3:49 PM ^
Yeah, must be Schiano.
October 19th, 2023 at 3:55 PM ^
MSU can't change--anything--to save it. And thinking, "Well, they've had six games to examine what we're doing on defense; we'd better switch up our signs. . ." might just be too taxing, too. Accusing us of stealing signs, when we're so successful. . . much better idea. I hope this isn't going to hurt Minter's career. Maybe it just sends him to the pros quicker. All of them. Not fun.
October 19th, 2023 at 4:53 PM ^
I think it sort of makes sense. I would assume that teams tweak their signs each week, so early in the game we don’t have a grasp on their signs yet and that’s why there has been some struggles early. By halftime though, we’ve deciphered what the new indicator is and we know what the opponents are doing and it’s smooth sailing. I sort of thought that’s what Schiano was alluding to during his halftime interview. I’m not saying it’s true, but it does make sense that if you we’re stealing signs, you would struggle early, adjust and then dominate.
I just have a bad feeling about this. Ever since Harbaugh got here, it’s felt like an uphill battle. He starts satellite camps, they shut ‘em down and it seems like he kept weaving his way through loopholes and the NCAA was there to close them immediately. He finally makes it to the top and now all of this. It just feels like it’s a vendetta against Harbaugh and they won’t stop until he leaves. It would be great if we could get a National title this year. I don’t even care if they later make us vacate it (no true - I would care) but at least let this team settle it on the field.
October 19th, 2023 at 7:48 PM ^
Huh? How are the allegations that we're sending an army of staffers to illegally scout games of future opponents have anything to do with in-game adjustments?
That's not what they're accusing.
October 19th, 2023 at 2:05 PM ^
"Vast network" wouldn't be staffers. The only vast network connected to Michigan is its alums.
And we know Michigan alums attend other schools' games. 608Monroe's already confessed that he's got tickets for Columbus this weekend.
QED.
October 19th, 2023 at 4:09 PM ^
To be fair, it's pretty easy to know what play the opposing team is going to run when the kicker or punter jogs into the field...
October 19th, 2023 at 2:03 PM ^
Why can't we have nice things?
October 19th, 2023 at 2:11 PM ^
So the guy who has to wear the same outfit all the time created a sign stealing ring to beat opponents??
Well whoever stole TCU's signs should be fired.
October 19th, 2023 at 2:36 PM ^
Maybe that was Matt Weis
October 19th, 2023 at 3:25 PM ^
I’m confused by this - typically a sign comes in from the side line then the QB looks at their wrist band and calls the play. So aren’t the signals from the side line actually a code indicating which number play it is on the wrist band? And wouldn’t every team switch the number associated with each play on the wristband every game to avoid sign stealing?
Can someone please explain this to me as I don’t understand how looking at one game’s signals helps in future games.
October 19th, 2023 at 12:25 PM ^
The NCAA investigating something does not make it more than a rumor.
October 19th, 2023 at 12:38 PM ^
Didn't this sign stealing rumor start in 21?
October 19th, 2023 at 12:58 PM ^
The rumor was that the NCAA would be opening an investigation into alleged sign stealing. That rumor turned out to be true.