Mork D'Antonio's "secret formula"
"While Dantonio is back on staff in an advisory role to Barnett this year, the interim coach was coy about the impact Dantonio would have on the Spartans this Saturday.
Because he has a secret formula to success, I can't share. So, I'll just say it that way, if that's okay," Barnett said with a broad smile."
You mean being 2-3 against Harbaugh with his last win coming in 2017?
October 18th, 2023 at 12:37 PM ^
That has not been my limited experience. Also, it should have been called because MSU planned to blow through the center. It wasn’t accidental and it wasn’t ticky tack.
October 18th, 2023 at 10:27 AM ^
It would have helped things if we hadn't had two gunners spread wide even though MSU didn't have anybody back to take the kick. It was completely idiotic ST coaching.
October 18th, 2023 at 10:31 AM ^
Because we had no time to adjust, because we had no timeouts, because we took a timeout to set up a punt, because THIS was so, so important. That is what I am saying, it was mirco-managed to the point of absurdity because of the expectation of bad things.
If you approach that possession with the expectations that things will be fairly routine almost every decision is different.
October 18th, 2023 at 12:05 PM ^
Should have taken a delay of game penalty. Get it set up right, punt the ball game over.
October 18th, 2023 at 10:54 AM ^
Yeah. If you're going to punt there, you should be in max-protect as all you really care about is getting it off. It really doesn't matter where you down the punt.
An odd lack of situational awareness from John Baxter, who was known as a ST guru.
October 18th, 2023 at 11:36 AM ^
it was Harbaugh's fault for not calling TO and lining everyone up properly. He also should've made the Aussie punter, who lacked FB instincts, aware of the situation. Pep saw it from the booth and said " this doesn't look good" and still no TO! How stupid.
October 18th, 2023 at 11:40 AM ^
We had already used all 3 timeouts.
October 18th, 2023 at 9:24 AM ^
psttt: it's 'roids
October 18th, 2023 at 9:43 AM ^
LatimerRoidRage.gif
October 18th, 2023 at 9:24 AM ^
6-1 vs RR and Hoke
2-4 vs Carr and Harbaugh
Seems to me like the "secret formula" is "hope Michigan's program is an unstable dumpster fire with a coach who lacks support."
October 18th, 2023 at 9:25 AM ^
Dantonio's vintage teams showed remarkable composure. That was his "secret formula" to me, not just against Michigan but in general. He was a "loss mitigation" expert. In a lot of ways I think Lloyd Carr is a pretty good comp. They had the ability to almost always recover from mistakes, sometimes even big ones, with the least amount of damage possible. Beating MSU during Dantonio's prime years required an inordinate number of breaks because each break you got caught carried with it the least amount of benefit available.
October 18th, 2023 at 9:48 AM ^
I too have thought Carr was a good analog for Dantonio. But of course MSU fans will scoff at comparing St Mark to "LLLLLoyd," which they copy from Ohio State and call him despite his going 10-3 against them. Just another instance of defective Sparty logic, because immediately after trashing Carr they'll tell you we have no right to say a word about Dantonio because he "owned" Michigan with his...8-5 record lol.
October 18th, 2023 at 10:39 AM ^
And of the 3 losses during the Carr years, 2 can be blamed on officials incompetence. 2001 was the Spartan Savings time game and in 1995, MSU’s game winning drive was setup thanks to us stopping them a yard and a half short on 4th down but the official moving the ball ahead to the 1st down marker anyway.
The extra second game, Desmond getting mugged on the 2 point conversion and the snap in 2015 get all the attention. But few remember the screw job in the 1995 game.
October 18th, 2023 at 10:44 AM ^
I don't remember the '95 screw job. I certainly do remember the '01 screw job. I also remember MSU picking up a 4th and 18 on that drive due to the most insane personal foul-facemask of all time on Jeremy Lesueur. AHHHHHHRRRGGG.
Are you the one with the You Tube videos? Do you have full game highlights of the '01 game? All there is on-line is the ending and the MSU highlights.
October 18th, 2023 at 10:54 AM ^
Yeah, that’s me. I only uploaded wins, not losses that crush my soul to this day. But if you go to YouTube, I’m 100% certain you’ll find a video of the 2001 game uploaded by some Spartan fan.
To add insult to injury on that last drive in the 1995 game, not only did the ref gift wrap that extra yard to MSU, Charles Woodson also had the game ending interception in his hand…and dropped it.
God, now I’m depressed.
October 18th, 2023 at 11:04 AM ^
Yeah there is a Spartan version up there but they are only MSU highlights and there are some Michigan plays I have wanted to see. We kicked like a 60 yard field goal on the first possession and there was a Jermaine Gonzales TD which I can only remember faintly. Walker was also uncoverable and I want to relive some of his antics and we had 11 sacks(!).
The search continues....
October 18th, 2023 at 12:48 PM ^
Sparty won't load a full game for '95 because it will only be proof of that terrible spot. If I recall correctly, that was a 4th down play where the MSU QB scrampled up the sideline, clearly stepped out of bounds a yard and a half short of the marker.
Had replay was available, MAYYYYBE the spot gets overturned (I am losing faith that a replay official does not have the guts to correct a call from on the field in fear of "Showing up" their brethern)
October 18th, 2023 at 12:10 PM ^
Oh yes, '95. They had something like a 4th and 9 and were definitely a yard short, but got a fantastic spot, that just made it on the measurement.
It's always seemed so odd to me that in football, the officials are so precise with the chains when the spot itself is arbitrary.
October 18th, 2023 at 12:41 PM ^
That spot still annoys me. The location of the ball counts, not the toe sliding forward during the tackle.
October 18th, 2023 at 9:26 AM ^
Even he knows he's screwed.
October 18th, 2023 at 9:40 AM ^
0-4 since they brought him in at an interim coach. Too bad this doesn't count against his all time record as a coach. Thanks for coming out of retirement coach!
October 18th, 2023 at 9:51 AM ^
Here's the reality of the situation, feelingsball aside.
MSU is 55th nationally in SP+ despite their shitty record, which puts them right square in the middle of college football teams. Rutgers and Nebraska are #52 and #53 and Minnesota is one spot behind them at #56. So statistically speaking they are very similar to most of the teams we've played in the B1G so far, and beat the brakes off of all of them. Their offense is worse than almost all of those teams at #87 and their defense is better than almost all of those teams at #26, surprisingly. (only Nebraska is better from teams we've played). Statistically they're far superior to any of the non conference teams we played as well.
So what does that all mean? This isn't a scrappy, just outside the top 25 team. Their solidly middle of the road in all of college football, with one of the better defenses we've played so far in the B1G - similar to Nebraska/Rutgers and the worst offense (similar to Nebraska/Minnesota), including breaking in a new QB with 1 start under his belt.. Also similar to this year's terrible Illinois team in SP+
The BEST CASE scenario for MSU is that they play with their hair on fire, Michigan hasn't spent the last six weeks preparing for the real part of the schedule and has nothing new to roll out, and some weird turnovers or something let them hang in the game for a half, before rolling over.
By every measure this team will get paved, it's just a matter of when.
Those same categories for SP+ for Michigan? #1 overall, #9 offense, #3 defense.
October 18th, 2023 at 10:03 AM ^
That is the one thing that gives me pause about this game. I'd feel better about it if it were reversed, if State's offense were decent and their D sucked. With a solid defense they'll probably sell out to stop the run, mostly will for much of the game, and Harbaugh, at least going on previous experience, will take his time opening up the playbook and allow State to hang around uncomfortably. I get the "Boa Constrictor" game plan, the only problem with it is I feel it can be upset by freak occurrences, which MSU has a knack for having go their way.
Letting a team artificially hang around because you know you've been grinding them down and in the 4th quarter they'll eventually collapse under the punishment, works fine when everything is going according to plan. You need to have something in your back pocket to quickly regain control of the game in the event of a freak turnover, special teams disaster, or QB injury, because just going back to the Boa Constrictor after that won't work in Spartan Stadium. Letting MSU hang around has never ended well for Michigan.
October 18th, 2023 at 10:31 AM ^
Letting MSU hang around has never ended well for Michigan.
It's never been pleasant, but it has happened in Michigan wins. Most recent example is 2018. The last TD came with 10 minutes left to make it a two score game, so it wasn't coming down the last second. But it was 7-7 late in the 3rd before DPJ's Paul Bunyan pose for no good reason.
Longer ago, 2012, 2007, 2005, 2004, 2003. Debatably 2000.
Honestly, us blowing them out is more rare.
October 18th, 2023 at 11:57 AM ^
I think my definition of letting a team hang around is a bit narrower than yours. It's not simply a close game, it's a markedly superior team nursing a one- or two-score lead against an inferior team, mostly winning the statistical battle but failing to make that translate to the scoreboard because they just can't manage that dagger score to put the game away.
2000 - memories of this season are foggy as I was in my initial entry training for the Army. I had at least reached the point of phase privileges I could watch, but there was still a lot going on. I do recall a pretty boring, low-energy game, but it never really felt like State was "in it" after Michigan scored on their first drive and every MSU drive couldn't get in the endzone, though they did move the ball at times. Semi-agree on this one
2003 - this one I watched intently. Yes, it was close, but to me it never felt like Michigan wasn't in control. Both of State's TDs came off big plays, one a coverage bust if I recall. Also, State was decent at least coming into the game, even ranked a couple spots ahead. They only collapsed after, as they often do once the they've lost to Michigan and no longer have anything to play for. But I will agree with you on this one, because yes even though Michigan mostly dominated the game, a fluke play or one more big one could have changed the outcome, and even though State looked slightly better coming in, by season's end it was clear Michigan had been the better team
2004 - Michigan had to come back in this one, so yes, it was even worse than simply letting them hang around. I agree Michigan was the superior team on paper and it shouldn't have been close
2005 - Michigan was 2-2, State came in ranked #11. Again, their season only collapsed AFTER losing to Michigan. Close game, yes, but still not quite what I am talking about as that was also a mediocre Michigan team
2007 - again, Michigan had to come back in this one. Yes, they were the better team, but they had also lost to Appalachian State, so I don't know that the daylight between them was THAT big
2012 - yes, that game was uncomfortably close, but I wouldn't consider Michigan the markedly superior team at 4-2 vs State's 4-3. And the final records were only a win apart also
2018 - again, even when tied it never felt that close because State couldn't do anything with the ball, held to under 100 yards of total offense. It always felt like Michigan was going to eventually pull away, but, it was still close, so, semi-agree as Michigan was dramatically better and should have won by more
Although, now that you've made me think about it, the only games in my memory where a truly superior Michigan team lost to an MSU team were 1990, 1993 (debatable), 1995, 2001. Man, why does it seem like it happens so much more than that? I know there are other games we lost to State where they like to inflate how good of a Michigan team they beat, but at least in my recollection it's really just those.
October 18th, 2023 at 12:07 PM ^
Man, why does it seem like it happens so much more than that?
Because every loss to them is a crime against humanity and only happened because they made a deal with the devil.
October 18th, 2023 at 10:07 AM ^
MSU's defensive ranking may be a mirage. They were completely helpless against Washington, giving up over 700 yards of offense, and didn't put up too much resistance in the first half against Maryland, either. (They were better in the second half of both games, but it was garbage time.) Then they played Iowa and Rutgers, which will help out any team's defensive stats.
October 18th, 2023 at 10:18 AM ^
But you have to consider intangibles in rivalry games. Michigan and Michigan State coaches almost view it as heresy to not play this game the way it should be played. Washington just went full spread and through caution to the wind and let it sail. Harbaugh won't do that. He is going to smash mouth it because "Dang it that is how we play football up here."
I am seeing a lot of predictions of Michigan scoring in the 40s or 50s. I don't see there being a chance of that happening.
October 18th, 2023 at 10:27 AM ^
Oh, I do expect MSU to come out with their hair on fire. This is their Super Bowl. But ultimately I don't think they're that good.
October 18th, 2023 at 10:34 AM ^
They aren't. But there will be some things that go there way and they will play really hard. It is the kind of game where I would be nervous if it did not feel like Michigan was essentially a professional team. I think Michigan will simply win the game in a calm, calculated manner with no big highs and no big lows, a lot like last year.
October 18th, 2023 at 10:20 AM ^
That is a great point. But I think MSU will be scrappy on Saturday. They really could of should of beat both Iowa and Rutgers.
UofM wins, but 1st half likely to be annoying. I think 27 to 10 or so.
October 18th, 2023 at 10:25 AM ^
I think night game also helps Michigan here. MSU is probably in a chomping-at-the-bit mode and will have to wait all day on Saturday. I like this better as a night start than a noon start, personal viewing reasons aside.
October 18th, 2023 at 11:36 AM ^
Yeah MSU's front seven is decent but even then none of those guys would start for UM. And their secondary is still an absolute tire fire against any pass offense with a pulse. There is a chance UM is too run oriented but honestly they have been more balanced this year at least early in games before getting a decent lead and people forgot they also threw it quite a bit in the 2021 game against MSU.
I think internally UM is concerned about MSU dirty stuff and will do whatever they can to get this game over with as quickly as possible. Also I feel they are pissed about the tunnel incident and want to make MSU pay for it on the scoreboard. So yeah I do not think you will see overly conservative playcalling by UM at all unless the weather is bad.
October 18th, 2023 at 12:47 PM ^
Thanks for solid stats. While Michigan is not Washington, McCarthy compares well to Penix. MSU didn’t give Washington the game, Washington took control. I believe Michigan can do the same.
October 18th, 2023 at 9:28 AM ^
Yawn, manna for the sparty masses. Bring your guys and Mork, Jim will bring his. When the dust clears we'll have an answer.
October 18th, 2023 at 10:35 AM ^
Yep. Barnett isn't speaking to U-M fans, he's speaking to MSU fans. Some U-M fans get upset, but, whatever, what's he supposed to say, "we have no chance?"
October 18th, 2023 at 10:37 AM ^
The only time I have heard a coach in any sport really say this was Phil Jackson in the 2004 NBA Finals against the Pistons. His after game interviews were like "yeah they are better everywhere and I see no evidence that anything is going to go differently in the next game." Hilarious.
October 18th, 2023 at 11:33 AM ^
Ha ha - I remember that.
Even then, Phil Jackson wasn't speaking to Lakers fans or the press, he was indirectly telling Kobe, Shaq and Karl "I have no confidence that you guys will get your shit together and start playing with each other on the court."
October 18th, 2023 at 11:39 AM ^
Worst attempt at a "super team" ever.
October 18th, 2023 at 1:35 PM ^
I think you're confusing "mocking" and "pointing out his mystique really did involve Michigan just sucking," with, "upset."
October 18th, 2023 at 9:29 AM ^
I guess there's no "secret formula" for protecting an 18 pt lead against Rutgers.
October 18th, 2023 at 9:32 AM ^
I thought one of the "secret formulas" was - run the ball and consume as much clock as you can.
October 18th, 2023 at 9:30 AM ^
And one of those two wins was the flukiest of wins. So yes, please tell Barnett your secret formula.
October 18th, 2023 at 9:31 AM ^
Secret formula 1 = bring a team with superior talent to play against Michigan (against RichRod)
Secret formula 2 = time snap count because Michigan is too stupid to go on anything different all game long (against Hoke)
I'm 99% sure #1 is out so that just leaves #2. And unless we've spent the week taking stupid pills I'll bet that secret formula wont work either.
October 18th, 2023 at 9:34 AM ^
What I sometimes forget about this game every year, is how MSU views it.
It is their Superbowl. Period. They could suck all year, but this game, they always turn it up a notch. I know Harbaugh is preparing the team for that this week. He is expecting them to come out and try and punch Michigan in the mouth. And they may even come out with some adrenaline and score 1st. But I predict that we wear them down as the game goes on, and we win BIG
48-13 - good guys
Sorry for making this a prediction thread, but couldnt resist
GO BLUE
October 18th, 2023 at 9:52 AM ^
While I agree that this is the Spartans Super Bowl - do you think that Mel emphasized it the way that Dantonio did? My perspective is - Dantonio had incredible dislike / hatred for Michigan - it went back to Ohio State and it was part of the culture he brought to the Spartans.
I don't think Mel brought that same attitude. Yes, it's a critical game for the Spartans; however, Mel didn't seem to me to have that "intense hatred" for Michigan that Dantonio did.
The historical figure is not something I'm familiar with - but, about 44% of the current roster is from the state of Michigan. If you add Ohio players - the percentage grows to just under 50%. My view is - those are the two states whose players would have the most significant recognition of - and dislike for - Michigan.
October 18th, 2023 at 10:32 AM ^
Very true. But one of those guys will be on MSU sideline Saturday, and Tuck aint comin'
October 18th, 2023 at 10:50 AM ^
Agreed. If there's a difference between Mork and Mel - one difference might be (I emphasize might) that Dantonio reinforced dislike / hatred of Michigan 365 days a year - it's part of his being - the core of his existence. And, Mel - IMO - didn't live it with the same level of intensity / disdain / etc.
October 18th, 2023 at 12:04 PM ^
My perspective is - Dantonio had incredible dislike / hatred for Michigan - it went back to Ohio State and it was part of the culture he brought to the Spartans.
Dantonio didn't have to bring this to MSU. This game has always been their season and it's always been marked by chippy (if not dirty) play. Don't forget that Dantonio was on Saban's staff at MSU before he became OSU's DC.
Dantonio was just more successful than the average MSU coach (with a big assist from Michigan, which imploded).