Michigan being investigated for shoe reselling
August 10th, 2018 at 10:46 PM ^
200-300 pairs per year assuming the pairs that go to friends of the program. There could be as many as 400-600 pairs of these exclusives out there. So that's 5.75% to as low as 3.83% of available pairs. It might be difficult to find the players, if any, that sold them, especially if any inscriptions/markers were removed.
UNC required their players to return their issued sneakers to the program and the players who could not produce their pairs were implicated. UM has had this Jordan contract for two full seasons. Current players could have gotten rid of their shows over that time without committing any impropriety, so the players might not be able to produce/return shoes that were issued two seasons ago.
August 10th, 2018 at 10:56 PM ^
Very true, you took my point a step further (and had additional info). I don’t want to say this is no big deal, but if it’s handled correctly it shouldn’t be.
August 10th, 2018 at 10:12 PM ^
I really don't care about guys selling shoes, but since it's against the rules I do hope appropriate punishment is handed down if Michigan players are found to be guilty. My guess is that a bunch of these are shoes sold by non-athletes as well as guys who graduated or transferred.
August 11th, 2018 at 12:10 PM ^
I think the rule is discriminatory by any standard you want to apply. It's another hypocritical example of NCAA barring player benefit from something schools promote through player usage to improve the school's name, brand sponsors and marketplace appeal.
It trades on the school name and brand perception, but the value itself is actually driven by the exclusivity of the endorser, which is why collectors value game-worn products over never worn.
I also believe that anything given a player is a gift and should be theirs free to use and sell as they wish during and after their eligibility.
In fact, that restriction is yet another example of NCAA blocking a player from earnings benefits accrued from their own success while in school and allowing schools to trade on their current market value (using popular player numbers to enhance t-shirt and jersey sales) while denying that player the same ability to earn from their own popularity.
And the only reason this is so, is not because it represents a valuable deterrent and promoting archaic eligibility restrictions, its because of maket-based fears if this rule were changed, it would upset the foundation of all licensing agreements schools have in place.
I mean why does the NCAA make an exception for denying the sale of player given gear during the regular season, but not for gifts received during bowl games? What's the difference in getting exclusive shoes now or then?
None, except how the same eligibility rule is not applied in the selling of such free items.
August 10th, 2018 at 10:13 PM ^
I have two pairs of player exclusive shoes. Both were from a player who had already graduated. Kids who are out of school can sell their stuff and think about the amount of kids who leave the football and basketball every season.
August 10th, 2018 at 10:27 PM ^
This is true. How did you acquire them? Knowing the player, knowing "a guy," internet, the StockX site?
August 10th, 2018 at 11:11 PM ^
my sneaker dealer who is a u of m football grad from Detroit area. Both pairs above table. One a game worn pair from a hoops player who had graduated and one a psny Jordan 12’s.
August 10th, 2018 at 11:35 PM ^
That makes sense to me, and I think that's totally good.
August 10th, 2018 at 10:13 PM ^
If it's a current player I expect beilein to suspend them, and he should. Whether or not players deserve compensation is irrelevant, if someone knowingly broke an NCAA rule and put themselves before the team they should be punished in some fashion.
On the other hand, when an MSU player recieves impermissible benefits he just donates $20 to charity and plays the next day....
August 10th, 2018 at 10:20 PM ^
Assumption is that it's the football team, not Coach B's guys.
August 10th, 2018 at 10:25 PM ^
"On the other hand, when an MSU player recieves impermissible benefits he just donates $20 to charity and plays the next day...."
1.) I agree any player should be suspended.
2.) But, this is what is so stupid about the NCAA and putting me close to the point of a boycott. When the NCAA big horses are caught cheating and players are caught taking free money, we dramatically change the rules saying why can't players have agents? But, when I can punish some other kids for selling something valuable that belongs to them, that's a no-brainer!
Also, If anyone in the Michigan administration or coaches knows or knew about anything like this and lied about it, I hope they get fired.
August 10th, 2018 at 10:47 PM ^
No, we really can't. The difficulty is the spirit of the rule. The spirit of the rule isn't to hurt the kid as much as it is to keep the university from circumventing the rules to artificially pay the player. I mean with this logic, Michigan/Nike could definitely afford to hand out new special edition shoes for every game.
The whole set of rules needs to change and be enforced until it is changed, but it's not as simple as a kid selling his personal stuff.
August 10th, 2018 at 11:20 PM ^
Nobody here wants to have any kind of conversation with you. Get the fuck out of here.
Edit: think the OSU troll got caved. Yay.
August 10th, 2018 at 10:14 PM ^
I mean, clearly you don't love that players on your own team could possibly be in hot water over something even as seemingly trivial as reselling shoes (though it is still against the rules), but after the the last few weeks, OSU and now Maryland, not to mention MSU and of course PSU, part of me is sitting here like, "OH, IS THAT ALL THEN?"
August 10th, 2018 at 10:20 PM ^
This seems laughably stupid with all that’s going on in sports and the country generally. The rules are the rules. I’m not arguing for a free pass. But I can’t bring myself to think of this as significant.
August 10th, 2018 at 10:32 PM ^
Actually I tend to think it's more spot on than arguably stupid. If we actually enforce the rules, all of them and not just the ones we want to enforce, then a lot less of the much larger scandal crap would be going on. But that happens, because too many in society pick and choose which rules to enforce and on who to enforce them.
August 10th, 2018 at 11:57 PM ^
I think the rules should be enforced here. But I can think that and also think this violation - if it is one - is trifling in the grand scheme of things.
August 10th, 2018 at 10:20 PM ^
Can't wait for the rivals gathering for a false equivalency circle jerk...
August 10th, 2018 at 10:23 PM ^
Between this and Maryland I bet Urban Meyer is the happiest guy in the room right now.
August 10th, 2018 at 10:23 PM ^
A problem entirely created by Nike. You can't create limited edition kicks, tweet it out and expect there to be no demand. Either sell to all or tell players to hold on until after graduation.
August 10th, 2018 at 10:40 PM ^
Maybe they did tell them that, and maybe the players did hold until graduation, and maybe the shoes being sold are all by guys who have left the program.
We'll find out, I guess.
August 10th, 2018 at 10:58 PM ^
Yep, the fact they're advertising shoes that aren't technically for sale and creating a high value market for players' shoes that they aren't allowed to sell is super immoral
August 10th, 2018 at 11:00 PM ^
I had no idea that people would pay $4,500 for those shoes. Those players literally should lock up their shoes. You throw a small party and someone will try to run off with your shoes to trade it for a car.
August 10th, 2018 at 10:24 PM ^
*turns on the umbig11 signal*
Please tell us you are hearing positive things on this situation and preliminary investigations are pointing to former players selling their shoes..
August 10th, 2018 at 10:29 PM ^
Welp....if it involves any current players, they deserve whatever suspensions they get. Whether it’s Rashan Gary or the backup long snapper.
August 10th, 2018 at 10:37 PM ^
Agreed. They signed a form stating that selling gear could jeopardize eligibility. They knew what they were doing was against the rules if it was in fact current players selling their equipment.
Unfortunate, and not the most egregious of violations, but rules are rules.
August 10th, 2018 at 10:31 PM ^
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
*breathes*
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Well this could be fun.
Ok. In all honesty as an OSU fan if any of your players sold their shoes not one damn thing should happen. Just as it should have been for Pryor and co.
A player selling/trading his own gear should not be a violation. It's ridiculous.
I'm not referring to Tress in this as he deserved to go for lying/omitting what he knew to be an NCAA violation, regardless of how stupid. But even that was dumb since he wasn't covering up anything sinister or behavior that gives schools unfair advantage in recruiting. It's a bad rule.
Let's see how many of you start to agree with it now that it may be hitting your program.
August 10th, 2018 at 10:34 PM ^
If Rashan Gary sold his shoes he should be suspended as the rules require and for whatever game the rules require.
So let me get this straight, a coach should be fired for lying, but the players we are teaching to be held accountable should not? They all sign documents every year. Just learn to play by the rules son. That's all and if you do something wrong, be a man, fess up and take your punishment. I imagine you'd have a hard time understanding these principles.
August 10th, 2018 at 10:55 PM ^
I think you are replying to me but can't tell on my phone.
In all seriousness any player breaking a known set of rules should suffer the punishment for it.
The point is that this is a terrible rule and needs to be scrapped.
Having said that if it turns out current players did this, especially if it's top players, I'd be curious to see the boards reaction. I recall the reaction to OSUs exact scenario being absurd.
The equivalent reaction would be for me to now act like your program is full of cheats and this is a terrible scandal. But I don't believe that.
August 10th, 2018 at 11:41 PM ^
Don't worry the OSU trolls don't seem to understand that if you let players sell their shoes that they get for free from the program, then that is indirectly paying the players
August 11th, 2018 at 10:04 AM ^
I don't think it's the slippery slope you are painting. You know, Where Does It Stop?
They aren't handing out unlimited equipment a player can turn around and sell. I don't think player is thinking that if he goes to so-and-so school he can get paid this way.
In the case of the 6 or so OSU players who were suspended for this many were selling their gold pants. This is the memento they get for besting you guys. There is no guarantee ( insert troll joke about us always beating you) a player ever gets one of these.
I don't know if you guys have anything similar but a player can't come to UM expecting to get a trophy he can sell. So I don't think it's quite as bad you paint it.
Again, if they get caught they do the time. But the whole thing is dumb and doesn't reflect on the goodness or badness of your culture or program. Admittedly, if it happens to any start players I will still probably laugh.
August 10th, 2018 at 10:32 PM ^
As a Nike shareholder, I am irked that the company does not sell these shoes in stores for the reasonable price of $650. Get it together.
August 10th, 2018 at 10:36 PM ^
Odd that players would sell to an outfit in NC. Seems like a lot of distance to a market with less demand. This store owner caught selling NC shoes may be covering his arse with the old “everybody is doing it” defense to save face.
You can bet any transfers are selling like there is no tomorrow, like old Rich Rod after his firing with a big box of Michigan gear.
Michigan is not being investigated, they are investigating. As we should. Get the results and suspend accordingly. Nothing more than that will happen.
The big penalties come with the coverup, as the cooler aficionados down south will attest to. Which Michigan will not do.
August 10th, 2018 at 10:39 PM ^
"The big penalties come with the coverup, as the cooler aficionados down south will attest to. Which Michigan will not do."
This unfortunately is proven wrong time and again. The big penalties come with self imposed penalties. Covering up in most cases avoids any penalty at all with the NCAA.
August 10th, 2018 at 10:53 PM ^
No way man. This is wrong, but a small infraction. Investigate, find any current players, suspend 2-4 games, and get on with life. Very simple. Educate and if it’s current players, maybe rethink participating in this whole exclusive shoe thing.
Covering this up is not Michigan and would cause serious penalties (see Jim Tressel - though OSU got off light).
August 11th, 2018 at 8:29 AM ^
You seem to have misread my comment. I am not implying Michigan should cover anything up. I am , am stating a fact regarding NCAA punishments that is an erroneous belief to think that being honest with the NCAA results in easier penalties. It does not. It a directed response at the earlier poster.
August 11th, 2018 at 8:51 AM ^
Not that simple. While covering up does seem to work in some cases, in other cases the cover up cannot be maintained and results in worse sanctions.
No way Tressel would have been fired for tat-gate if he did not lie about his knowledge to the NCAA. Cover-up ended badly for Tressel.
August 11th, 2018 at 11:49 AM ^
That doesn't exactly match my memory of the tattoo scandal. OSU and Tressel went from denying to admitting. They didn't stick to the cover-up plan. The reason for this was two-fold, one the U.S. Attorney's office was involved because of Rife and recovered evidence. The second reason was some emails became public. But schools that hold fast to the cover-up have a history of not being punished by the NCAA. Look at the basketball scandals the past two years.
My assertion is not that it never happens, but that one generally results in less punishment more often than the other.
August 10th, 2018 at 10:37 PM ^
Ok, so here's what I understand that we know: The site on which UNC players sold their shoes also has authentic, player-exclusive Michigan shoes for sale. So Michigan has to take a look and see where they come from.
Ablauf mentions that some of these shoes are given to charity and some are given to executives, VIPs, etc.
So, there are several scenarios that could produce the shoes:
1. Doomsday--an organized ring of active players selling their gear prior to the expiration of their eligibility. Each would merit a suspension of a third of a season.
2. A real possibility: players whose eligibility has been exhausted or voluntarily forfeited putting merchandise on sale to make an extra buck after they have completed their Michigan careers. There is nothing unethical about this.
3. A hybrid: Former players who sold shoes before their eligibility expired and would have been suspended had it been known, but who have since left the program.
4. Unlikely: VIPS and executives trying to make a buck on top of their six-figure salaries
5. Less likely, but possible: A charity that received a number of shoes raising funds by selling them.
I suspect that the vast majority of the shoes sold on StockX will come from one kind of source, for whatever reason. Whether players telling each other where to sell, or a charity putting quantities up for sale, I don't know.
I think #2 is definitely on the table. It makes sense for guys that have sellable merchandise, after they have finished their Michigan career, to make money by selling. Why shouldn't, say, Mike McCray make a few bucks off of the extra Michigan stuff he has in his closet?
We'll have to wait and see.
August 11th, 2018 at 12:38 AM ^
Just leave. No one cares about your self righteous “let the investigation play out” hot take
August 10th, 2018 at 10:42 PM ^
"5. Less likely, but possible: A charity that received a number of shoes raising funds by selling them."
Less likely by shear percentage and perhaps how would the charity get this guy's info, but sometimes they would be donated to charity for the purpose of selling them, right? Other times the ultimate recipient would sell them. I don't think they'd be donated to charity to sit in a glass box somewhere. Maybe donated to charity for the purpose of auctioning them off?
August 11th, 2018 at 7:51 AM ^
Sadly, I think this scenario is unlikely.
A charity might well want to auction shoes off. Obviously the money does them good, not sure how the shoes help. But shouldn't they want to hold their own fundraiser? That allows for some tax write offs for buyers and an opportunity for losing bidders to donate too.
August 10th, 2018 at 10:44 PM ^
I tend to agree. I’m guessing it’s guys who have transferred or are done with football and are wanting to make some quick cash. I’m feeling fairly good that we don’t get any current players in trouble.
August 10th, 2018 at 10:48 PM ^
I hope you're right, Doc.
On the cusp of the season feeling pretty good about the team and then BAM...
I dont think we will find anything out until Sept 1st. If a projected starter doesn't start, I predict the rumors will run rampant due to the effectiveness of the submarine.
"Was he injured during camp?" "Was he selling shoes?"
August 10th, 2018 at 10:56 PM ^
I know, I hope I’m right too. Like Mr. King said, just going to have to wait...
August 10th, 2018 at 11:39 PM ^
Maybe this guys a troll
August 10th, 2018 at 10:59 PM ^
2 becomes more likely if you consider that a fair amount of walk-ons join and leave the team each season. That’s my hope.
August 10th, 2018 at 11:04 PM ^
And unless it falls into the #1 category, it doesn't really affect the team at all. Realistically it's probably a combination of 1,2, and 3 which would probably result in only a few players suspended. Hopefully that's not the case though
August 10th, 2018 at 11:40 PM ^
Maybe this guys a troll
August 10th, 2018 at 10:47 PM ^
The only reasonable reaction is fuck the NCAA and its stupid rules. UNC had way more severe punishment for something like this than creating an entire fake academic program to keep kids eligible.