Mgolawyers how long until we see an injunction?
Apologies in advance if this isn't worth it's own thread
@Mgolawyers how long can we expect to wait before hearing news about an injunction? I'm hoping it's only minutes, as opposed to hours.
Just will feel better once we officially know that Harbaugh can be on the sidelines tomorrow. The Big Ten is a fucking a joke, waiting until the team's plane literally takes off to announce this is bush league.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:16 PM ^
The strongest point for M has to be that Petitti is applying the 'institutional' penalty to an individual. Its a basic misapplication of the bylaws.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:20 PM ^
Agreed. Since there is a mechanism to punish "offenders," the Conference has acknowledged JH is not an "offender," leveling the sanction against the HC - WHO JUST HAPPENS TO BE JH - is certainly novel.
The other point that will be hit (and I'm not sure which side has it correct) is the argument in the letter from the Conference that says Rule 32 (which governs violations of conference and NCAA rules) and the Sportsmanship policy are separate such that the Commissioner can impose punishment under the Sportsmanship policy even “where the offensive actions are premised on actual or potential violations of NCAA rules.”
November 10th, 2023 at 4:30 PM ^
And to add, the taking the action it did on the basis put forth in the letter, the Conference has implicitly acknowledged that it does not have a direct mechanism by which it can punish Harbaugh. So it came up with a workaround to do indirectly the thing it could not do directly.
It would seem odd to be able to levy a punishment in this manner, but given that the Sportsmanship Policy appears to grant broad powers to the Commissioner, it is not a sure thing that the University and JH will succeed on a TRO.
Of course, dropping this on a Friday when the team and its HC is already in transit to its next game is not good optics. And optics can matter a lot in these circumstances where the action can be characterized as being done in bad faith.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:25 PM ^
Lots of MGoLawyers have combed through the bylaws - there have been multiple posts and diaries on this.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:15 PM ^
We've always had an injunction. I should know, sir. I've always been here.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:17 PM ^
Notice the timing. Waited to the last minute to make it nearly impossible to get an injunction before close of court hours going into the weekend. And of course to distrupt Michigan football as much as possible. This is deliberate. It's time for Michigan to take the gloves off in the courtroom, the courtroom of public opinion, and on the field!
November 10th, 2023 at 4:23 PM ^
It absolutely is outrageous sandbagging but in federal court there will be someone to answer the phone on a TRO no matter when it is filed.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:23 PM ^
It is total chickensh*t. It is also a holiday. I hope our expensive law firm anticipated this and had a court on standby.
If I'm a Michigan alumni judge I'm writing up the injunction before I'm even asked for one. (I don't know how courts work.)
November 10th, 2023 at 4:30 PM ^
The firm for sure anticipated this. No doubt the papers were fully drafted before the announcement was made. Now it's a matter of dropping in the language and revising language in the motion as needed to address the reasoning given by the conference. It could take an hour or two but I'd be shocked if this isn't on file by 9 p.m. tonight. It needs to be in far enough in advance to reasonably expect a ruling before kickoff tomorrow.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:17 PM ^
IANAL but I'm sure they've been ready with everything at the courthouse all day for the past several days. The reaction will be as swift as the judge and their clerk is this evening.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:23 PM ^
IANAL--Is that a Caligula-inspired ripoff of I, Claudius?
November 10th, 2023 at 4:17 PM ^
Even if the punishment was deemed allowed didn't the rules preclude anything over 2 games?
10.3.3.1 Standard Disciplinary Action. Standard disciplinary actions shall include admonishment, reprimand, fines that do not exceed $10,000, and suspensions from no more than two contests
Or is there some "non-standard" version that supposedly allows this?
November 10th, 2023 at 4:23 PM ^
Perhaps this is the easiest aspect of the TRO - which is imposing a sanction / suspension greater than the B1G By-Laws allow.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:39 PM ^
They did go the committee. They can issue this sanction.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:37 PM ^
The next section allows for greater penalties if approved by the Joint Executive Committee Group (JECG). Letter indicates they went to that group who signed off. In essence, Presidents of B10 schools approved penalty.
November 10th, 2023 at 5:49 PM ^
He said in the letter that he got approval from the board for more.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:18 PM ^
Who knows.
I can't get over their response. The are sanctioning the University by taking away the Harbaugh. One the one had, that's a pretty big compliment to Harbaugh as he is a walking competitive advantage.
On the other hand . . . fuck them.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:21 PM ^
Tonight. It is fundamentally outrageous to do this less than 24 hours before a game is scheduled, not giving a team an opportunity to make alternate arrangements.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:21 PM ^
Fuck this. Michigan by 100 points tomorrow. There will be pain. Vengeance will come. Go blue now and forever.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:23 PM ^
Do we have an Mgomafia?
November 10th, 2023 at 4:24 PM ^
A disadvantage for M lawyers filing quickly is that--by applying "institutional penalty" to one individual *and* by extending the penalty beyond the 2 games permitted in the bylaws--the Big Ten behaved differently than expected.
As a bare minimum, that will require redrafting by the Michigan team and will take time. Granted, these unexpected elements of the suspension appear to constitute a greater overreach by the Big Ten and, in the long run, may elevate Michigan's odds of success.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:34 PM ^
I don't think that will be an issue. B10 Letter says they went to JEGC, so Ono had notice of the penalty and what was coming.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:47 PM ^
I'm a transactional lawyer but I would have a hard time believing that W&C was or is flat-footed on the harsher potential penalty which was announced today. Money cannons and lawyers have been putting in work all week.
November 10th, 2023 at 5:03 PM ^
Right, and they went to the JECG for approval, so not an issue. I think best TRO issue is if they can sanction Harbaugh in guise of sanctioning UM. If that were the case, why is the provision in Big10 bylaws about sanctioning guilty individuals. That would always be an implied power of sanctioning university.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:25 PM ^
It's a good thing the team repped this situation for the first three games. That's how good Harbaugh is!
November 10th, 2023 at 4:28 PM ^
So, M's lawyers probably need to make last-minute adjustments to their pleadings based on the content of the suspension notice. Then they need to file the complaint and TRO motion. Then they need to contact the Big Ten's lawyers and see if they are going to appear and contest the TRO. Then they need to contact the court and try to set up some kind of hearing, which I presume will be telephonic or by video conference. Then the court will hold the hearing, and the judge will likely rule at the conclusion of it or shortly thereafter.
So, realistically, probably sometime this evening. Probably.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:32 PM ^
Yes, most courts have an emergency judge assigned to handle TROs like this. UM has undoubtedly been in touch with the clerk for where they intend to file to alert them, get the procedure down, have the judge available and ready for a hearing, etc.
UM will let B10 know, and they will have people on the ground or certainly ready on call. And B10 probably has a brief ready to go, which will argue an organization interprets its own by laws, unless such interpetation is arbitrary and capricious.
November 10th, 2023 at 5:15 PM ^
If the big ten lawyers refuse, can that make it delay or are they optional?
November 10th, 2023 at 5:39 PM ^
I would imagine optional, or there would be no point in filing it because they would simply not show up and thwart it completely.
November 10th, 2023 at 5:39 PM ^
double
November 10th, 2023 at 4:29 PM ^
I have studied this a lot, and read all of the chat board dialogue on this. What is really crazy to me is that B10 simply adopts the idea that what CS did was not permitted under NCAA rules. There are good arguments that when CS hired contractors to tape the games that there was no violation of the in person scouting argument.
It goes back to the 2013 Amendments, and while I don't agree it was permitted before that, i do think that the amendment's commentary reference to a "subscription service" expressly contemplated the idea that institutions can pay for video. And the specific provision of Section 11 applies to "Athletic Personnel", not vendors.
So, if an institution does not send athletic personnel off campus to an in-person event, but rather pays for video, I think a good argument can be made that is not prohibited under the policy. AT the very least its is ambiguous.
Williams & Connolly dropped a line in the letter about the ambiguity oof underlying NCAA rule, but no one seems to be focused on the basic fact, that CS may not have done anything expressly forbidden. At worst it is an ambiguous grey area.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:36 PM ^
Part of the argument in the letter is that it doesn't matter if it violated NCAA rules, but rather violated the sportsmanship policy, which is not limited to NCAA or B1G rules violations.
The problem for the Conference is that it assumes the conduct had a material impact on games (highly debatable) and the fact that everyone is stealing everyone else's signs, a problem that the Conference deals with by stating that the conduct of others is immaterial to whether Michigan's conduct violated the Sportsmanship Policy.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:42 PM ^
Agreed, but the entire premise of the lack of sportsmanship is the supposed violation of the NCAA rule. No violation of the rule, its hard to see how it is against sportsmanship policy. And if no violation, suspending under sportsmanship seems to be the definition of arbitrary and capricious.
Also, remarkably, 2021 proposed amendment which would have eliminated the rule entiely, specifically says "Specifically, livestreams of intercollegiate competition and prerecorded game film are readily available in the digital age. The minimal competitive advantage gained by scouting future opponents in-person is outweighed by the monitoring and enforcement burdens of ensuring compliance with the legislation."
Thats the NCAA talking, not B10 or UM.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:31 PM ^
They don't want to harm the athletes huh? Watch the officiating tomorrow. I anticipate no less than 4 game changing decisions not in our favor. To win Michigan is going to have to be totally dominant. Spots will be off, interference will be prevalent, line will be holding...shit show. Then we'll see the concern for the innocent athletes.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:32 PM ^
I can't wait to burn the B1G to the ground and watch all of the rats scurry. Outside of USC and OSU the rest of them won't get 1/10th of the contract without M. Best of luck staying relevant. If we can get out of the 2024 deal we can go independent and start a new conference with USC, UCLA, W, O, ND, STAN, and CAL. Then we can pull FSU and CLEM when they can get out of their ACC contract and leave the rest of the B1G to rot.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:34 PM ^
It will come at halftime tomorrow
And Harbaugh will get his Willis Reed moment.
November 10th, 2023 at 5:20 PM ^
Remember when Bobby Boucher showed up at halftime and the muddogs won the boiban bowl?
November 10th, 2023 at 4:34 PM ^
It will come at halftime tomorrow
And Harbaugh will get his Willis Reed moment.
November 10th, 2023 at 4:38 PM ^
Can someone explain what JGEC is? Mentioned quite a bit in the "Notice". Assume it is the Big10 board with a fancy acronym?
November 10th, 2023 at 4:39 PM ^
Answering my own question below it looks like they did get committee approval for 3 games. From the full letter to UM:
Because this disciplinary action constitutes “Major Disciplinary Action” under the Sportsmanship Policy, on November 10, 2023, I sought and received approval for such discipline from the JGEC. Pursuant to Section 10.3.3.2 of the Sportsmanship Policy, the JGEC’s decision to approve the disciplinary actions imposed herein is final and not subject to appeal.
(apolgies if the link doesn't work - having site issues)
https://bigten.org/documents/2023/11/10//Correspondence_from_conference…
November 10th, 2023 at 4:40 PM ^
The rush to judgment in this case in violation of normal procedures is nauseating, but the issuance of the order at this time is simply chickenshit. No judge worth his salt will not be offended by how the league has handled this.
November 10th, 2023 at 5:02 PM ^
An unfortunate fact of our system is that forum shopping works, does anyone know where this will be filed? Both whether it will be filed in Michigan or Illinois (I would think the B1G bylaws have a forum selection clause to Illinois, but don’t know, assume M will file in Michigan if it can) and state or federal (this has to be a diversity case, and I suspect the B1G is a citizen of each state it has a member in including Michigan so state court)?
November 10th, 2023 at 5:10 PM ^
They might be able to sue every other Big Ten School under a contract theory, which would include MSU, thereby defeating diversity. That's how the City of St. Louis defeated diversity in its NFL case. It sued all the teams, and the Chiefs were a Missouri corporation.
November 10th, 2023 at 10:13 PM ^
Whaaaat?
November 10th, 2023 at 5:12 PM ^
One issue they're going to have to address is the Commissioner's comments that Michigan was wrong that it had seen almost no evidence, something he said the NCAA refuted yesterday. If W&C hadn't anticipated that, they might need time to address it.