Looking ahead to 2017

Submitted by ThadMattasagoblin on

Yeah we can still play in the Rose bowl and hopefully we somehow get into the playoff but with the season moslty over, it's interesting to look at what type of team we'll have next year.

I think we'll have one of the best RB combination in the country with Chris Evans and Karan Higdon with the possibility of Najee Harris if we can pull that recruitment off.

QB will be a strength also with Wilton Speight coming back and Brandon Peters coming on to battle Speight for the spot.

At tight end, we lose Jake Butt which will be a big loss but bring back Asiasi who looks like a star in the making and also bring back Wheatley and Bunting.

Wide receiver loses Chesson and Darboh but return Grant Perry and Drake Harris and return guys like Crawford and Mcdoom get some reps there with the possibilty of adding difference maker DPJ who will probably get some snaps. Also, Nate Johnson has been talked about as a difference maker.

The offensive line will probably be very thin but we return Bredeson and Cole and hopefully Newsome. Onwenu and one of the potential 4/5 star OL recruits Wilson, Leatherwood, Ruiz etc. look to start.

The defensive line will still be very good with guys like Hurst, Gary, Mone, Winovich coming back. We will be thiner but that line will be very good.

The linebackers should hopefully take a jump forward with McCray coming back and Bush getting some minutes already this year. Mbem-Bosse and Josh Ross could also contribute.

The secondary is another position with a lot of turnover. I feel pretty confident in Tyree Kinnel but hopefully we get some good play from Watson, Hudson, Long, Lavert Hill etc. and we're due a 6th year from Jeremy Clark after Ed Davis got one.

Overall, I think this is a lot of turnover to still be in the national championship picture. I think we probably go anywhere from 9-3 to 11-1 although we have a tough schedule. I think there's numerous positions that people will worry about like TE and WR just because you're losing players but Harbaugh has good talented players that are playing right now. The more worrisome positions are the secondary and OL where we will be thin. Hopefully guys like Hudson and Lavert Hill are the real deal and Newsome is able to play again.  

 

 

 

 

I Like Burgers

November 26th, 2016 at 9:34 PM ^

I don't think they were that explosive as a trio.  Comparitively, they feel just kinda normal.  Not going to waste the time doing it, but if you went through a lot of teams across the country, a 750-550-400, 12 TD breakdown for your top 3 WRs is probably pretty normal.  Maybe a little below normal for top offenses.  For shits and giggles I looked up MSU's top 3: 715-420-324, 13 TDs.  And for more shits and giggle's here's Wisconsin's: 535-421-417, 7 TDs....so yeah.  Michigan's is pretty normal, unless you think super highly of MSU or Wisconsin's offense.

 Also, Darboh was pretty far and away the most dominant of the three.  He has almost half (45%) of the trio's yards and exactly half of the TDs.

Where I do agree through is that since there's no Dede Westbrook level top WR to replace, plugging in some new WRs and TEs should be pretty doable, won't be much of a step back, and won't make the offense any less explosive.

Also agree that OL is the top issue.  Especially with the way Michigan wants to run the ball.

Night_King

November 26th, 2016 at 6:37 PM ^

You are so wrong it is actually incredulous. What the fuck did I just read. Best tight end in the HISTORY of the program and you say "it can't get any worse." Best cornerback possibly in our HISTORY and you say he is invisible. News flash: if you play corner and teams don't even try to throw your way, you're a superstar.



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I Like Burgers

November 26th, 2016 at 7:02 PM ^

That's what I'm saying.  The players behind Butt, Chesson, and Darboh will be just fine.  For a good example of "HOW WILL WE EVER REPLACE PLAYER X" look at Alabama, Ohio State, or Clemson.  Last few year people have said that about the players they have lost, and they've all been just fine.  If you can recruit and coach at the level they do (and Michigan does) then you'll be just fine.

Butt, Chesson, and Darboh have had nice careers here, but we're talking about two players in Butt and Chesson have have under 500 yds receiving each, and a total of 6 TDs between them.  That's very replaceable.  Darboh is the best of the three, but we'll have better or equal players in the next few seasons.

Night_King

November 26th, 2016 at 7:09 PM ^

This is why I want Donovan Peoples-Jones so badly. He could step in right away and make an impact. The biggest thing I want though is an excellent offensive line. Anytime this year or last year when we really needed one first down to roll the clock, we never got it. Teams like Bama are always able to ice the clock when they need to.



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I Like Burgers

November 26th, 2016 at 7:17 PM ^

Same for me.  DPJ is kind of a must get, but WR is a position where guys step up all the time. Its not like we're replacing a 1200yd and 10 TD receiver.

OL kinda killed us in the 4th quarter the last three games when we just needed to grind out a solid 8min scoring drive to ice the game and they couldn't come close.  Given how young some of the guys on the OL are, and the young depth behind them, I'm hoping they are at least equal to this season's team, if not better.  Will likely be 2018 before they turn into a Stanford or Alabama level road grater crew.

Night_King

November 26th, 2016 at 8:06 PM ^

Five yards of offense in the fourth quarter, especially when you're winning the game, just doesn't cut it. Need a dominant OL to solidify the run game and feel confident in our guys to get the first downs when we need them the most. On the ground. Couldn't do that today, against Iowa, or last year vs MSU.



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Ghost of Fritz…

November 26th, 2016 at 10:17 PM ^

has two loses right now.

Officiating today was horrible today. 

But the 0-line was merely good not great all year  And today they could not get that one first down needed late in the 4th (never mind the 8 minute clock killing drive). 

That was the problem with the offense all year.  O-line fell short on run plays against good Ds. 

But I have to think that Habraugh and Drevno should not have tried to run in the 4th and in OT at certain times.  They know that this 0-line has not been great againt good defenses all year (or all day against OSU).  

Offense worked best in the 1st half when they were passing a lot on 1st down.

Muttley

November 26th, 2016 at 9:25 PM ^

We've had one.

We're losing a ton of talent across the board, and we don't have the same stable of up-and-coming players that have been in practices and conditioning for a year or two ready to step on the field (in addition to the few freshmen that are immediate impact players).

We'll get there, and the receiving corps isn't the greatest concern, but any dropoff hurts when it's part of a potential across-the-board dropoff.

I Like Burgers

November 26th, 2016 at 7:21 PM ^

Butt had a bad dropped pass this game too.  He's had a few bad ones this season.  And while he's had a fantastic career at Michigan, with the way he performed this season and with the way they used him, I'm not sure how big of a loss that actually is.  Again, its 460 yards and 4 TDs, half of which he picked up in three games against Maryland, UCF, and Colorado.  Michigan has a lot of guys that can do 4 catches for 40 yards a game. 

HarleyMarlboro

November 26th, 2016 at 6:24 PM ^

I think that's what hurts so much right now.  Next year doesn't look nearly as good as this year does.  OSU reloads every single year, and even after huge turnover, they're still probably going to be a playoff team.  We're not there yet.  By not making it this year, we're still a minimum of 2 years away from bring in this position again.

I want to puke as I type this, but we're just not at Ohio's level right now.  We were the better team this year, but that wasn't enough.  Next year, their inexperienced team loaded with 4 and 5 stars will have a lot more experience, and they'll have a clear talent edge.  

With so many seniors this year, it was clearly a "playoffs or bust" year, and we had a bust.  I want to be positive, and I want to be looking forward to next year, but I just don't how we don't take a major step backwards next year.  I hope I'm wrong.

Ghost of Fritz…

November 26th, 2016 at 9:16 PM ^

OSU 2016 team is not nearly as good as the OSU 2015 team.  But it looks like the 2016 team will make the playoff while the 2015 team did not. 

OSU was really lucky to win today in OT and also lucky to win in OT at Wisconsin.  They really should be a three loss team. 

Frustrating that M did not win today.  M really is the better team this year, but just made too many mistakes and got screwed on PI non-calls in OT and late in the 4th.

Weird year in college football.  No single dominante team.  All of the top 6 or 7 teams are less than perfect.  Even Alabama looks beatable.  the gap from no 2. to no. 7 is compressed this year. 

 

Perkis-Size Me

November 26th, 2016 at 6:34 PM ^

I know I'm going to get negged for being a Debbie Downer, but I really don't care about next year right now when we had all the tools to be in the playoff this year. And guess what? We still lost to a lowly, predictable Iowa team and we lost to OSU (again. Surprise!).

Next year could be an 8-4 to 9-3 year with how much we have to replace. And until I actually see us beat an OSU team that isn't coached by Luke Fickell, I have doubts about us ever being able to beat Urban Meyer. His recruiting classes are somehow managing to get better and better. Depending on how long he stays, I'm worried it could be years before we beat them.



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Ghost of Fritz…

November 26th, 2016 at 9:32 PM ^

you are thinking abut it the wrong way. 

I could see the pessimism about ever beating Urban Meyer if we still had Hoke or whatever. 

But Harbaugh has closed the gap to nil in just 24 months. 

Dissapointing to lose today, but OSU needed terrible officiating, three M turnovers, some dumb M penalties, some dropped balls from M receivers, plus some luck to escape the win. 

If they played 10 times, M would win 7 or 8.  Just did not work out today. 

Everyone says this was the year becasue we were loaded with talent.  But that was true on D only. The offense still has a talent gap.  O-line was good not great.  Just could not run the ball late in games against good defenses. 

Despite these deficiencies on offense we were still  hair's breath from the playoff (and will still probably be top 5 after the conference CC games are played). 

I mean do you remember losing to Rutgers 25 months ago?  Do you realize how far we have come?  Ridiculous that M lost today.  But this game is just a speed bump. 

 

 

WeimyWoodson

November 26th, 2016 at 10:13 PM ^

But I think you're totally nuts. This sucks about as bad as possible. We are losing 10+ people to the NFL. Literally the top catching TE in school history, the top pass break up leader in school history, most likely one of the best athletes in school history in Peppers, first team B10 wide receivers, 7 d-lineman who could all drafted....should I continue?!? Osu is immune to droughts, Urban Meyer is the luckiest fucker on the planet. Like literally everything goes his goddamn way. He's 5-0 against us, and 2-0 against our savior. This was the year to beat them despite being on the road. Osu will only be better next year, there great college qb who won't be able to do shit in the NFL will be coming back to lead the team and with the exception of a few players the rest of the osu team will be back. The best chance now for Michigan is the 2018 season but again osu will just have there insane class with their second year of experience. Sorry to be a downer but this sucks. This long, awful road of being dominated continues.

Ghost of Fritz…

November 26th, 2016 at 10:49 PM ^

Losing the way we lost is terrible.  It was there for the taking and we both let it slip away and it was taken away by poor officiating (the non-PI calls bother me more than the bad spot on 4th down).

But if you think about it M really is slightly better than OSU this year, and that is way better than the reality of 2015, which was that OSU was totally dominant.  The gap is nil.

M might be 8-4 in 2017.  Or they could get some breaks and have some young players work out really well and win the conference. 

Will M have a d-line in 2017 as good as 2016?  No.  But the d-line and D overall can still be a top ten D, and they may end up with a better o-line, etc. 

Way better to be angry about losing a close one to OSU that should have been ours than to lose to be angry and confused about losing to Rutgers, etc.

Brown Bear

November 26th, 2016 at 10:51 PM ^

We had a pretty good class last year which will be more experienced next year. We have a pretty insane class ourselves coming together which will be in their second year in '18. We will have better quarterback play, more experienced and Jims recruits at that position. All is not lost. Step back from the damn ledge. Jeez



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Brown Bear

November 27th, 2016 at 7:21 AM ^

I didn't say wait until 2018. I said our pretty great class from last year is going to be more experienced next year just like Ohio's will be and the same for 2018. Just refuting your reasoning of why we won't have a chance these next two years is false.

Perkis-Size Me

November 26th, 2016 at 10:53 PM ^

Closing the gap does not mean JACK SHIT if you don't win. LSU has the talent to match Alabama in every phase of the game, and they haven't beaten Alabama in five years. OSU needed some breaks, but they won. Again. And that's all the history books will remember. There are no moral victories in this game. You either win, or you lose.

This is far more than a speed bump, pal. We risk falling behind to OSU permanently while Meyer is in town. OSU may not have played well today, but they didn't make mistakes. We made a TON of them.



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Ghost of Fritz…

November 26th, 2016 at 11:22 PM ^

If you think Harbaugh is no better than Les Miles you are wrong. 

And if you think Michigan and Harbaugh will permanently be behind OSU and Meyer you are wrong. 

I did not call anything a moral victory. 

Instead, my point is that 25 months after M lost to Rutgers (!) M is actually better than OSU. 

Too many turnovers today.  Too much bad officiating.   Somtimes the better team does not win the game.

But right now M is not at all behind OSU. 

YoOoBoMoLloRoHo

November 26th, 2016 at 6:34 PM ^

The core question is OL. This group was average and that means minimal talent on the roster - perhaps almost nothing to really deliver Harbaugh power football. It will depend on recruiting (Wilson and Ruiz might start day 1).

Speight and Peters battle for QB (Peters is a significantly better athlete). Evans becomes a nightmare with 10 more pounds of muscle. I think Kareem emerges with his one-cut ability and resculpted phasique. Crawford, Perry, Asiasi, Bunting, McDoo, TJW are a good receiving core.  Add DPJ and Nico - this group is legit.

We have 81 scholarships (excluding walkons) and 19 seniors with no eligibility.  11 seniors with potential 5th years:  Morris, Shallman, Isaac, O'Korn, Hill, Poggi, Dawson, Kugler, Hurst, McCray, Sypniewski.  Assume Peppers to the NFL so 35 spots. I think 5 get invited back for 5th years: Isaac, Hill, Poggi, Hurst and McCray.

Defense will be good if Hurst and McCray return. Mone showed some burst today. Gary will be a terror, Bush is a warrior, and the secondary might be better with Long, Hill, Metellus and Kinnel.

maize-blue

November 26th, 2016 at 6:38 PM ^

It won't get better until there is an uptick of talent and playmaking ability at the QB and RB positions. If Hurst goes the D line could take a couple steps back. Could be an 8 to 10 win season.

Ghost of Fritz…

November 26th, 2016 at 7:05 PM ^

Speight was really good this year.  Way better than people imagined he would be last August. 

The pick six today was terrible.  No excuse. 

On the other INT was only half his fault.  If you look at the replay you will see that the OSU defender was hidden behind an official when Speight threw it.

There are plenty of reasons to be concerned about several very young positon groups in the 2017 two deep. 

But Speight is not really something to worry about.  He is usuallly accurate, has very good pocket presence, and can make all the throws.  And he will only get better.   

M had the talent at almost every position this year to win the national championship.  I say almost becasue in the end the real flaw in the 2106 team was having a good but not superb o-line.  Two more really good o-linemen and M would be undefeated right now.

Open qustions from 2017 include:  o-line, corners, d-line depth, wide receivers. 

QB, RB, slot and (probably) LB position groups will be very good. 

I Like Burgers

November 26th, 2016 at 7:39 PM ^

To me, that pick six was way more on Smith than Speight.  Smith totally blew the block that allowed whoever it was to plow into Speight as he was throwing.  And the only reason that pass is off is because Speight's arm is hit as he is throwing.  Don't remember which receiver it was, but I think he had someone open on the sideline for a big play there if his arm doesn't get hit.  Tough to fault a guy for getting blindsided as he's throwing.

Now the fumble and the other pick?  Yeah, those were totally on Speight.  But he's a redshirt sophomore with plently of upside.  It'll either be a more experienced Speight or Peters ready to go. I like our QB chances for next season.

maize-blue

November 26th, 2016 at 7:42 PM ^

I do think it will be hard for the others to overtake Speight next year. I'm not too down on him, I think he also kept us in the game today. But, I just feel like there is something missing from his game. I love his demeanor and pocket presence.

Regarding the O-line, I feel like the veteran's Kalis, Magnussen, Braden and I'll even include Cole, just never really turned into the mauling road graders we'd hoped for. I give Bredeson a pass this season because he is a freshman. 

Bleedmaizeblue

November 26th, 2016 at 6:38 PM ^

I am legitimately worried about three positions, OT, DT, CB. As if right now we do not have enough scholarship players to fill a 2-deep at any of these 3 positions. The OTs committed so far are all lower tier recruits, not the Bredeson plug and play tier. We have 1 CB currently committed, (St Juste) who doesn't look like an instant impact player and depending how this coaching staff defines committed defensive lineman (this is a versatile group) we don't currently have any DTs committed. Even if these freshman workout well next season our 2-deep at these three positions REQUIRES freshman contribution. And a second string player may easily become a starter after an injury.

Night_King

November 26th, 2016 at 6:47 PM ^

Need guys like Solomon and Tuefele to come here. If Hurst comes back, I won't be as worried at the DT spot. Mone has a lot of potential (underwhelmed this year, I don't think he was ever fully healthy). CB and OT will be VERY interesting positions to watch in the off season. Need Long, Hill and Watson to be ready to go next year. Ambry Thomas would be a nice fourth in the mix. At OT, no one knows what will happen. I think there's a chance Isaiah Wilson starts from day 1 if he comes here.



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Ghost of Fritz…

November 26th, 2016 at 6:44 PM ^

team will be one that is rough at the start of the year but improves hugely over the course of the season. 

You don't just replace the number of guys we will lose and/or experienced guys like Peppers, Womley, Jourdan Lewis, etc. with unproven RS freshman and sophomores and expect no drop off. 

Hoke's last two classses 2014 and 2015 (one month after Harbaugh hire) will be a problem next year.  Neither class was very big or highly ranked.  There are some good players in there, but not enough. 

So lots of guys from the superb 2016 class, and even some true freshman from the 2017 class, will be playing central roles.  

 

Ty Butterfield

November 26th, 2016 at 6:45 PM ^

OSU sometimes plays sloppy in the middle of the season but is always firing on all cylinders when they play Michigan. Maybe David Brandon had the right idea in moving the game against OSU to October.

NJblue2

November 26th, 2016 at 6:48 PM ^

Sigh next year will be a down year, but maybe we can weasel our way in like Penn State. This was the year, we're losing too much for next year to matter, so maybe in 2018 we'll be sitting pretty again.