Klatt's Take on the Fiesta
22 minutes, a few points:
- Credit to TCU, great game plan by a great team
- UM seemed overconfident
- UM coaching staff very good but assistants are young and underperformed in this game, they will learn from it
- UM will be good, probably better next year
- Red zone issues cost UM and OSU their games
- Got to be able to win a shootout to win in the playoffs
- Officiating, specifically replay, is totally broken
- No way UM's touchdown should have been overturned
- Definitely targeting on final play
- Nationalize officiating, not regional
Fiesta comments start at 21:10
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:02 PM ^
Two things can be true
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:43 PM ^
Wolverine,
Ohio showed UGA is beatable for Ohio. Alabama showed UGA was beatable for Bama last year too.
The thing is, these games are about matchups. Ohio matches up poorly with what we have built in Ann Arbor. They, like Bama, with an intricate passing game, match up well against a UGA team that plays a ton of man coverage and depends on pressure from 4.
We probably play UGA closer than last year if rematched, but our passing game and route trees are nowhere near as sophisticated as OSU and Bama, and therefore we would probably not give UGA the same type of match up issues as OSU.
TCU is frustrating because it is a matchup we win 8 out of 10 times.
January 2nd, 2023 at 2:33 PM ^
I do think we win this game, we can beat Georgia. TCU had the perfect storm to win and I do thoroughly think they get rolled by Georgia where Michigan wouldn't.
January 2nd, 2023 at 3:52 PM ^
The problem with these kinds of comments is the assumption that if we'd done these 2 or 3 things differently, everything else would've gone the same. It's a) illogical and b) assumes the opponent played a perfect game. Also, I seem to be in the minority on this, but I'm tired of hearing we would beat TCU 8 out of 10 times. That's weak and I really hope the team isn't thinking that way. In the real world, they were only ever going to play once, and TCU won that one time.
Bo Harbaugh laid it out nicely about OSU vs. UGA and a hypothetical UM vs. UGA. I think UGA would have been a really tall order because they stop the run so effectively. I think we need to develop a modern passing attack (as others have stated) to really go to the top.
January 2nd, 2023 at 5:18 PM ^
Logged in to upvote.. the Michigan wins this game 8/9 out of 10 times take is annoying. Got totally outcoached in a big game (again!) and it's not like they played a perfect game.
Just saw Tulane finish a comeback and looked way more composed than we did.
January 3rd, 2023 at 1:38 PM ^
I also agree. When the passing team is dominating YOU in the run and you are one good RB run from doing nothing on the ground how does that equate to 8 out of 10 times? Those backs were gashing us big time.
The problem with U of M for decades has been "We have a potent offense but lets hold it for the first half and see if we need it or not". Im guessing we all had that vibe from our play calling in the first half. Remember those Lloyd teams when they would get down 14-21 and all of a sudden we would have an offense?
Stop pulling your own handbrake on your own offense. These modern offensive coaches go for the throat right out of the gate and you cant piss away 15 and 30 minute blocks like that. 3 points and a record setting hail mary kick at the end of the half? Good god.
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:10 PM ^
It's the opposite for me. The more I think about the game and the landscape of college football this year, the more I think Michigan blew what might be it's best shot at a national title in decades. That game will haunt the program for a long time.
January 2nd, 2023 at 3:31 PM ^
I'm with Cam; I fear this year was the best chance they've had, or will have, for a long time. The draw seemed about as good as you could've wished for. As much credit as TCU is due, they're not Alabama, or Georgia or any of the other teams that usually make the championships, and whom Michigan will most likely have to face should they make it again soon.
I too am afraid this will be a game we'll look back on for years with regret, wondering, "what if?"
January 2nd, 2023 at 4:18 PM ^
I don't buy it. It sucks that we lost, but making it to the CFP for the second consecutive year as a #2 seed will never "haunt" this program win or lose.
January 2nd, 2023 at 12:52 PM ^
I haven't watched the video but I tend to agree with virtually everything in the summary posted by the OP.
I'm not sure Roman made the end zone but clearly not indisputable. Still we should have scored from the 1/2 yard line.
January 2nd, 2023 at 3:13 PM ^
Think of it this way: If he'd dropped the ball in the end zone, would it have been ruled a catch? No, because he didn't have possession before the ball crossed the goal line.
And yes, the team should have scored immediately after that play, rather than fumbling the ball away.
January 2nd, 2023 at 12:53 PM ^
We weren't ready for those hyper-aggressive linebackers, that's for sure. And we didn't go do anything in the first half to reign them in.
But the absolute bottom line is we threw 2 pick 6s, fumbled on the goal line, and gave away 3 points for a trick play.
End of story.
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:01 PM ^
Two of TCU’s turnovers led to UM TDs. So a wash there.
The two goal line failures cost Michigan the game. Ten points. They lost by six.
Ugh.
January 2nd, 2023 at 2:01 PM ^
Should have scored 60
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:08 PM ^
That's what the rest of B1G will be doing in 23-24 season.
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:43 PM ^
You would think after osu and years of dantonio blitzing all their linebackers we could naturally adapt to these kind of schemes.
January 2nd, 2023 at 12:53 PM ^
Generally agreed with him, but he also said that the hit on Marvin Harrison Jr. was also targeting which is just a nonsense take offered to pander to OSU fans. My problem with Klatt is that he always hedges his takes to not piss fans off and that makes him less credible.
January 2nd, 2023 at 12:59 PM ^
Not sure why he would pander to OSU fans? Guy was a Colorado QB...
anyways, pandering to one fanbases actually does piss off another...Georgia fans undoubtedly disagree with his take and do many TCU fans I am sure.
With subjective calls, there's always going to be a contrarian view that you are not pandering too.
Klatt's good. Probably the best guy out there imo.
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:05 PM ^
He would pander to OSU fans because he calls B1G games and does not call SEC games. i mean what about that hit on Harrison constituted targeting? I can see why an official in real time may have thought the helmet was involved because it was such a violent hit. But in replay it was obviously just s clean, very hard hit. Why Klatt would think that was targeting makes zero sense and the weasely argument he used to make the case that it was targeting was just terrible. But I agree Klatt is a solid announcer in general. I just thin he plays to the audience sometimes.
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:13 PM ^
It was clear targeting. He launched with his shoulder at the head and neck area with intent to injure, which he did. Did Marv just concuss himself? Ever hear of a shoulder to shoulder hit causing a concussion?
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:16 PM ^
The shoulder didn’t hit his head, though. And yes, whiplash concussions are a thing, as are concussions caused by heads hitting the ground.
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:48 PM ^
This seems exactly right. The UGA defender led with his right shoulder and clocked Harrison in the left shoulder and also hit him in the back with his right upper arm and forearm. It's really hard to tell how much initial helmet contact there was--though it was secondary to the shoulder-to-shoulder contact. Harrison got hit so violently and his head an neck are whipped by the impact, and it doesn't seem like the helmet contact is the principal reason for his injury.
Someone else might know this, but I suspect that targeting replays are handled differently than other non-personal foul calls--i.e., in terms of indisputable evidence? Targetting is (often) such a difficult judgment call, that it seems like the booth should have more latitude in getting it right. I say this because I think it was a close call, and targetting was the rule on the field... but I don't think targetting was ultimately the right call.
January 2nd, 2023 at 2:35 PM ^
Klatt's reasoning, which is outcome dependent, rather than a visual conclusion, is totally flawed. The idea that Harrison couldn't have been concussed if there wasn't impact to the head, therefore it was targeting, is an absolutely specious argument.
Second point, is leading with your shoulder into a WR who is leaning lower to catch the ball really targeting. That seems ridiculous. He didn't lead with the helmet, he led with the shoulder. He can't help what the WR does with his body.
January 2nd, 2023 at 2:57 PM ^
concussions happen from whiplash all the time, they don't require contact to the head.
A concussion is a mild form of traumatic brain injury (TBI) caused by a bump, blow, or jolt to the head. Concussions can also occur from a fall or a blow to the body that causes the head to move rapidly back and forth. source: CDC
i didn't think the hit to harrison should have been targeting and i've heard the same from many others. there are also quite a few people who think it should have been.... If it was 'clear targeting' it wouldn't be 50/50 on the opinions of football fans who saw it.
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:00 PM ^
Respectfully disagree Mike. I’ve heard him burn down teams and coaches plenty. He will certainly accentuate positives, but he’ll tell it like it is
January 2nd, 2023 at 2:02 PM ^
It was targeting just like Loveland hit was targeting
January 2nd, 2023 at 12:57 PM ^
Thanks for the post and Klatt's comments are 100% spot on. Having listened to the comments Angelique said on Friday's WTKA M-Zone show, she mentioned that the team was "confident". One can interpret that as overconfident. Is that good or bad? I don't know.
Once TCU had a 14-0 lead including the first Pick-6, that should have grabbed Michigan's attention that would had the makings of a real tough game. The first drive Red Zone debacle by Michigan really hurt.
The third bullet point regarding our young assistant coaching staff is a valid point, especially in how the game unfolded and Michigan was constantly fighting to close the gap.
Overturned TDs against Michigan is nothing new, remember MSU in 2021, the scoop-6 play by Hutchinson.
Two days later and this loss hurts more than it did immediately after the game as well as yesterday.
Everybody at Schembechler Hall will learn from this one. Even if Michigan runs the table again in 2023, there's one glaring issue: Bowl preps! How is it Jim hasn't won a bowl game since 2015, year 1? If I knew, I'd let Jim know.
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:02 PM ^
Whatever bowl game they play in next year needs to be treated like a Super Bowl. This program needs to start winning bowls no matter their importance.
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:08 PM ^
Just to play Devil's Advocate we saw how the 49ers came out in their Super Bowl against the ravens. Jim Harbaugh has problems when he has more than a two-week break
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:12 PM ^
If their bowl isn't the CFP, guys will sit out including JJ if he has a good year.
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:19 PM ^
Regardless of who is available the game needs to be treated like a Super Bowl. Winning in the postseason needs to become a habit, not a sometime thing for this program.
January 2nd, 2023 at 3:23 PM ^
I'd rather hear that the team is "confident" than that it's not.
*Both* of the red zone debacles really hurt.
January 2nd, 2023 at 12:59 PM ^
I really dig Klatt's takes.
I'm glad to hear a prominent, national voice say that the replay and targeting rules are broken. The refs totally got it wrong and it's been bothering me more and more hahah. Maybe if he's talking about it, calling for changes, someone in power will listen.
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:03 PM ^
I've enjoyed listening to his analysis this season
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:05 PM ^
I'm really tired of replay. Officiating can screw up calls in real time - additional time to butcher calls isn't necessary. Nothing worse than celebrating a catch, watch the slo-mo broadcast replay and hear the words: "Ope! The ball jiggled! It jiggled! Might want to look at this one, Jim."
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:16 PM ^
I agree. I enjoyed following football in the 80's a lot more before instant replay and this bs "did he complete a football move" nonsense. If the refs call it wrong live with it and move on.
January 2nd, 2023 at 3:25 PM ^
On the other hand: Charles White phantom touchdown.
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:15 PM ^
The first pick 6, the overturned TD, and taking a fg instead of an ill advised 4th and goal on the first series would’ve changed the whole makeup of the game for the second half. Instead of being content to run as much as they did, tcu would’ve been forced into more passing, while Michigan could’ve stayed more with the run, including a few more JJ runs. JJ also wouldn’t have felt the pressure to make plays where there weren’t leading to intentional grounding. On defense Michigan wouldn’t have felt as pressured to blitz as much, which Duggan was very good at dealing with.
I think the initial game plan was ok, including on defense, but the tightness of the Michigan players at first, coupled with a bad overturned TD call led to mistakes that Michigan normally doesn’t make.
This game just as easily could’ve been similar to the PSU game, if only…..🤷♂️
January 2nd, 2023 at 2:19 PM ^
They gashed us with the the run so I don't think it would have mattered much if they attacked by air or ground.. Their backup RB had 150 on 17 rushes. I know 1 was a big one but that's a 8.8 average. Miller had 7.1 per carry before he got hurt without any 50 yarder in there. They had their way with us.
Conversely we could not run well at all. 5.2 for D Edwards inclusive of the massive first run.
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:16 PM ^
I don't know how you all feel, and I maybe I feel differently, but I thought that hearing analysts from across the nation recognizing that the overturned TD was an absolute blown call that should have never happed would make me feel a bit better about the situation, as if to provide justification for my feelings. It hasn't. It has made it worse. Sometimes I wonder if my vision of certain plays or calls may be clouded by my deep love for Michigan. Unfortunately, when I hear people like Klatt voice their (seemingly) unbiased opinion that it was a horrible call, it makes me feel worse and its because something was taken from Michigan. At the highest level, at the near pinnacle of the sport, at the most important time during the season, something was taken from Michigan. It makes me sick. This is really hard to get over.
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:18 PM ^
You must be young. Michigan has been getting screwed in big games for decades.
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:23 PM ^
I'm 36 and can remember watching games in the early 90s (though I don't remember specifics that far back), so have have experienced a few times where M has gotten screwed. I just don't understand how things so egregious can happen....and seemingly without consequence to those who are making the decisions.
January 2nd, 2023 at 2:03 PM ^
The announcers in the Illinois-Mississippi State game just mentioned the overturn, too.
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:19 PM ^
I like Klatt a lot and agree with all of this except the "overconfident" part. Could they have used the QB run earlier? Perhaps. Did they run too much inside zone? Sure. If you want to say the coaches didn't adapt to the other team's strengths, fine.
But that has more to do with Michigan not straying from its identity.
People keep talking about JJ's comments, but all he said is Michigan should be able to run on a 3-3-5. Clearly they didn't as well as he thought, but they also opened themselves up to huge plays from PA. And those comments had nothing to do with him throwing two picks as a first-year starter. Not like he talked shit on their coverage. He wasn't even talking shit!
Anyway I hope Georgia wins by 60. I'm so sick of this indignant TCU disrespekt bullshit
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:22 PM ^
The overturned TD hinges on a judgment call as to when the catch is made. The rule book states:
ARTICLE 3. a. To catch a ball means that a player:
1. Secures firm control with the hand(s) or arm(s) of a live ball in flight before the ball touches the ground
There were 2 referees on the goal line who agreed in real time that the ball was secured after it had crossed the plane.
The replay official was fixated on where Roman’s knee first hit the ground. Looking at the play in slow motion, frame-by-frame, it could be argued (as TCU fans are doing) that the ball was in his hands when his knee was down at the 1/2 yard line. But this misses the point entirely, which is, what is a catch? It is a judgment call as to when firm control is secured. A singular replay official judging one frame at a time should not be allowed to overrule THE JUDGMENT of TWO officials. Visual evidence is not enough to prove or disprove a judgment as to when control is secured. Is it the very instant the ball hits the hands? Is it when the fingertips grasp the ball? Is it when the receiver survives the contact with the ground?
I know, TL:DR, it’s just asinine that was overturned. The replay official should NEVER work a college football game again, let alone a playoff game.
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:39 PM ^
that's what bugged me too.
sure, you could argue the ball was in his hands at the 1/2 yard line, but he clearly does not have control a split second later.
its called the act of completing the catch. Control wasn't maintained until he was across the plane.
It breaks from virtually all precedent where TDs are overturned due to not having control in the act of completing the catch.
Mind boggling reversal.
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:31 PM ^
All true, plus the DL sucked, and OL pass protection. And a few other excuses, TCU was the better team. Congrats to them.
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:36 PM ^
Yeah, yeah, I agree on all …. Don’t give a shit. Can’t believe Michigan isn’t playing Monday. 🤬
sloppy coaching , sloppy play, one moronic officiating call lost the game
And to have the season end on a miscue between Olu and JJ , just ouch.
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:53 PM ^
Agree with all of that.
January 2nd, 2023 at 1:58 PM ^
Watching the game - I never give up during an event. But it was a slow dawning that this was not going well and plenty of experience with these things in the past to back up that feeling.
One thing very different - a Meechigan QB handling adversity like this young guy. JH talking about how proud he was of JJ afterward gave me good hope we're on the right track.
I love JJ - he is the Meechigan QB I've always been waiting for. But, he can be a bit of a Pollyanna. He needs some gravel in his gut - maybe this will help. He is a rather attentive young man, I believe it will.
So lots of stuff conspired to make this a devastating upset. But, there is one really great theory I have only heard as a conspiracy theory you might say - attributed to someone close to the program in a M football FB message group that my son is a member of this "groundskeeper type person" allegedly said that the team only got to practice on grass 2 times before the games because of weather, while none back at home. While TCU plays on grass at home. Furthermore (I have not checked the veracity but it seems right) we are 24-0 on turf the last two years and 1-3 on grass (spurty, UGA, TCU and barely beat PSU) I donno - this seems like the one common denominator to me. Why is nobody in official circles discussing this elephant in the room - gambling sites talk about this sorta stuff in general all the time.
This "groundskeeper type person" went on to say that the team was slipping in pregame and that it may have been a big factor in why Dono was caught from behind on the first play.
I'd really like to see this practicing on grass thing addressed in the future myself.