If you are Team #NeverFireHarbaugh, do you expect a national championship?
I decided I'd rather add this to the ultra-snowflakey gameday board than put it up midweek.
I thought we'd compete for national titles when we hired Harbaugh. Now just competing for the Big Ten seems like we're going to need a miracle season.
I'm not saying I want Harbaugh on the hot seat, but I am saying I won't be delusional enough to think we're ever going to sniff the air of Clemson, Bama, OSU, etc.
If you're one of the people who shouts at everyone who dares to question Harbaugh, is it because you still think he's going to start making the CFP on a semi-regular basis or is it because you have just decided beating up on the bad teams (usually) is good enough?
September 21st, 2019 at 7:42 PM ^
If Urban Meyer coached this Michigan team with the talent it has, we would look like a championship caliber team. You can't attribute alleged cheating for consistent execution in big games...our coaches either have to figure out how to break into that echelon or stay where we are
September 21st, 2019 at 6:55 PM ^
We're not on a level playing field with OSU. For one, Ohio HS football produces *far* more talent than Michigan does. There's no 2nd Big Ten program in the state either. So just from the get-go, they have an inbuilt advantage.
Then you add the fact that it does simply 'matter more' there. To put it bluntly, Ohio is about as plain jane as a state comes, Buckeyes football is not quite all they have but it is a big part of the fabric of that place. When you play OSU, you don't just play a university, you play a state. That gives them another advantage because when people care that much they're willing to cut corners and look the other way just a little more, too.
Meanwhile, Michigan has pretensions of being an Ivy League school and it carries itself with that air. At Michigan, all those little unethical things that go into being a winning sports program can be done, but not to the same degree or with the same impunity that you see at OSU or in Texas or the Southeast. Why? Because there's legions of Michigan alumni who barely care about sports, who would perceive a major scandal as far more embarrassing than they'd find a championship rewarding. Michigan is a big sports school, but among the big sports schools it's just that bit closer to the Stanford/Northwestern side of things than the Clemson/Bama/OSU side. That creates a ceiling.
September 21st, 2019 at 7:12 PM ^
Why did OSU fire Cooper? How did Michigan ever beat OSU? None of the things you listed changed, the coaching changed, they went and got Tressel who owned Michigan. Then Fickel was HC one year and Michigan won, how did Michigan win if all those things were true? The next year they got Urban and He dominated Michigan again. Good hires vs Bad hires, it’s not rocket science
September 22nd, 2019 at 12:28 AM ^
I think people don't get this and it's important. The average Michigan alumnus is probably a 40 year old upper-middle-class professional living in suburban Chicago. They go out to Jewel on Saturday afternoons in their Michigan sweaters, they watch the games inattentively or check the score while out with their kids and spouse. When Michigan wins they say "Hey, we won!", when Michigan loses they say "Darn." They aren't demanding national championships, they aren't paying that much attention to any of it. To them Michigan is a school first and a football team second.
September 21st, 2019 at 7:27 PM ^
Which is sad. If you're fine with what we've been under Harbaugh you're basically admitting you can't get to the level of even what MSU was from 2010-2015. Three 11-win seasons, a 12 win season, and a 13 win season. Is there any reason we can't do that? That's absurd to me.
September 21st, 2019 at 6:34 PM ^
I’m a huge proponent of consistency. That mixed with the right group of kids/men (which the RIGHT group is very much a luck thing paired with also high athletes) gives you the best shot. Change resets your program. Is harbaughs culture need a reset? I think that’s what he’s most accountable for and I haven’t decided. I like our program. We value student athletes. We do things right. But, I am tired of hearing the same talk after coming up short.
September 21st, 2019 at 6:34 PM ^
Idk why anyone would think Michigan would have a shot at the CFP, even if Harbaugh hit his ceiling. Modern college football just kind of precludes a team like Michigan at this point. But honestly idgaf. I just want to beat OSU. I really don't care about anything else and never really have.
But of course...beating OSU requires being a CFP-caliber team, so I just don't know anymore.
Oh, I changed my mind. I just want it to be fun to watch college football instead of purely existential. That's why cheering for Michigan is so fucked up.
September 21st, 2019 at 6:39 PM ^
But of course...beating OSU requires being a CFP-caliber team, so I just don't know anymore.
That's really the paradox for those who say they don't expect one or don't care. They have to also not care about OSU...or just keep waiting for something to derail them. In fact, that's how we got our only win in the last foreverity.
September 22nd, 2019 at 12:35 AM ^
Over the past couple of seasons, I have been pursuing a very part-time master's degree at the University of Iowa. I've started following Iowa football and while it can't possibly replace my emotional attachment to Michigan the thing that strikes me is how much more fun it is.
If Iowa had lost to ISU last week, there would have been no rage fits. It didn't matter, it never really matters. It's just no expectation fun. A great season is one where you win the worst Big Ten division, a good season is one where you win 10 games, a season where you make it to the Outback Bowl is the expectation, losing seasons happen sometimes. Nobody ever freaks out and has an existential breakdown, there's no debates.
September 21st, 2019 at 6:34 PM ^
Why shouldn’t Harbaugh be on the hot seat? He’s paid an outrageous amount of money. I know people who say “it doesn’t matter what’s he’s paid” and I feel this argument makes no sense. He’s paid to win at the very least Big 10 titles. He has yet to produce that.
This is year 5. There doesn’t seem to be noticeable improvement beyond the first year. He’s paid big boy bucks for big boy results. If he can’t deliver he should absolutely be on the hot seat.
As leaders and best we should at least show fiscal responsibility. Hire a coach for 3.5 million a year to lose to OSU, go 50-50 to MSU and Wisconsin.
September 21st, 2019 at 6:52 PM ^
It doesn't work that way at UM - here its all about "who you know" not what you can do. Harbaugh can keep this job as long as he pleases.
September 21st, 2019 at 8:35 PM ^
One would think this is the case, but it seems as though the higher ups could care less whether we win or not. Keep selling out games, keep selling merchandise, and they’re happy.
September 21st, 2019 at 6:35 PM ^
I’d be happy having hope for a CFP berth, but I don’t even have hope of winning the division mush less the CFP. Now Michigan is just a better than average program.
September 21st, 2019 at 6:36 PM ^
Not even close. They aren't even going to a BTT game under Harbaugh. The dream is dead, and it's time to start looking for the next guy...............again
September 21st, 2019 at 6:44 PM ^
Pelini
September 21st, 2019 at 6:37 PM ^
Harbaugh winning a natty? Alburt Camus famously said "all you can do is laugh at the absurd". I'm 22 years old and I've seen 1 victory vs. Ohio in my lifetime. I started falling M football when I was 7 years old. Unless Harbaugh magically finds a way to beat Ohio kiss natty's goodbye. I'm a realist and I don't expect them to beat Ohio again in my lifetime. Maybe an unexpected fluke win, but can't count on that.
September 21st, 2019 at 6:41 PM ^
In your LIFETIME? Well, I don't have any evidence right now but I do think it will happen again if you live anywhere near the average life expectancy of an American male.
September 21st, 2019 at 7:04 PM ^
lol. Ok I exaggerated for effect. I was watching Ohio annihilate Miami and I just don't see M on their level or remotely close to them. Its just depressing. My older cousins tell me how fun it was in the 90's to follow M football. Damn I wish I could experience it.
September 21st, 2019 at 6:38 PM ^
I never expected Harbaugh to win a national title here. That's a very tough ask, especially of a program that is clean.
All I wanted was a .500 record vs. OSU, .800 vs. PSU and MSU and a B1G Title every couple of years. I didn't think that was unreasonable, apparently I was dead wrong.
September 21st, 2019 at 6:42 PM ^
OSU is a national title caliber team. You have to be one to beat them. Particularly if you're Michigan.
September 21st, 2019 at 6:46 PM ^
Hard to beat the cheaters
September 21st, 2019 at 6:50 PM ^
well Wisky doesn't cheat and beat us with lower rated recruits- how do you like them apples?
September 21st, 2019 at 6:56 PM ^
This year, yes. Not last year.
September 21st, 2019 at 6:40 PM ^
I honestly don’t care. Michigan will never beat the cheaters of the NCAA world. Just like Bo’s time, I’d rather have a program to be proud of than compromising and cutting corners to win a trophy.
September 21st, 2019 at 6:49 PM ^
Are you proud of this performance today ?
September 21st, 2019 at 6:49 PM ^
and yet everyone here still dogs Carr for losing to cheatin' Tressel- funny how we change our standards.
September 21st, 2019 at 9:22 PM ^
Lol. It’s the cheaters. That’s why MSU and Purdue have beaten OSU more than Michigan this century.
Michigan is stuck in its ways because it wants to play 1980s football and refuses to adapt.
Fuck Harbaugh and fuck Michigan men. Bring in a modern program losers
September 21st, 2019 at 6:43 PM ^
C'mon this is no different than the Moeller and Carr years when we consistently went about the same records as now. Only Bo stood out and he sucked at bowl games too. All in all I'd rather have Harbaugh than Chip Kelly and they kinda both had good college success, went to the pros and returned with mediocre results.
September 21st, 2019 at 6:48 PM ^
You mean the Lloyd Carr that people around this blog shit on all the time? The one who won the National Championship?
It is not very different than that. People seemed mad then and seem mad now. Other people accept reality.
I didn't know what the expectations of pro-Harbaugh people were but I think it's rounding into form for me. Good thing I started this thread.
September 21st, 2019 at 7:07 PM ^
Any fucking idiot could have won a NC with that 97 team. See, Lloyd proved my point.
September 21st, 2019 at 6:45 PM ^
No, I dont expect a national championship. Actually, I dont even believe we will be in the playoffs regularly. Now, if it moves to 8 teams then I think we have a much better shot at it. The University wants a clean coach who competes( not always wins) for bigten championships, and prioritizes the student in student athlete. Anyone prioritizing 11 plus wins a year is going to be sorely disappointed annually.
September 21st, 2019 at 8:18 PM ^
In the playoffs “regularly”?
Jesus man, Harbaugh has never even won 11 games. Not ever been to Indy. Not ever beaten OSU. We’re not getting to the playoffs once with Harbaugh here.
September 21st, 2019 at 9:07 PM ^
Cue Jim Mora “Playoffs! Playoffs!”
September 21st, 2019 at 6:47 PM ^
JH is never winning a natty and never getting fired- he is a "lifer" here and has a great "friends and family" nepotism program here as coaching hires. This is UM football for the next decade- get used to it.
UM doesn't care about your desires to win, they care only about money- that's the real game- not what you see on the field. UM loves JH and his posse- go buy some fabric softener.
September 21st, 2019 at 6:49 PM ^
+1 for the last line. I laughed.
September 21st, 2019 at 6:56 PM ^
Our goal.should be looking competent which has been a failure for a while now. NC? Hahahahahahahha
September 21st, 2019 at 6:57 PM ^
We won’t bribe our recruits enough. Can’t possibly compete with those who do.
September 21st, 2019 at 7:23 PM ^
It goes far beyond bribing recruits...we can’t even develop and utilize the recruits we have now! What possible benefit could this team gain by bribing slightly better recruits to commit??? We’d just shit the bed with those players too
September 21st, 2019 at 6:58 PM ^
Urban won a natty with Tressels guys and more times than not was a game short and embarrassing overall to the program. Not that I wouldn’t like that right now all things considered. Let’s not act like osu faced bama or Clemson every year for a chance to win it all. He kicked our ass which apparently is nothing to hang your hat on.
September 21st, 2019 at 7:08 PM ^
I mean, they beat Alabama pretty thoroughly
September 21st, 2019 at 8:31 PM ^
I don't recall Zeke or Joey Bosa being Tressel's guys.
September 21st, 2019 at 8:44 PM ^
Show me a roster that has all Urbans recruits with a championship? It can’t be done.
September 21st, 2019 at 8:49 PM ^
Not saying he’s not a great football mind because he is. He never made a difference playing in an actual game, because he was a walk on who didn’t do shit. Never hand picked an entire team from AtoZ and won. Creature of opportunity.
September 21st, 2019 at 7:01 PM ^
I'm on team Harbaugh. I expect a Big Ten title and playoff appearance once every few years. We likely would have had that, but for a questionable 4th down spot a couple years ago.
September 21st, 2019 at 8:33 PM ^
Got to love the excuses we give. The two most popular are 1) bad spot on 4th down and 2) our competitors cheat.
September 21st, 2019 at 7:05 PM ^
1. Harbaugh is not recruiting and coaching well enough to create an elite program.
2. Harbaugh runs the program as “clean” as possible.
3. UM admin cares about #2 because the academic/general reputation is > football.
4. NCAA doesn’t care about #2.
We are closer to Stanford and Northwestern than Alabama, OSU and Clemson. I think UM can achieve top 10 and clean - but our chances at elite are rare and require good fortune like a winning spot in Columbus 2016.
September 21st, 2019 at 7:11 PM ^
Win the B1G Championship. I don’t care about national titles.
If we had a decade like wisconsin has had with all those B1G titles and Rose Bowls itd be amazing.
September 21st, 2019 at 7:16 PM ^
How do we win our division? If we can win our division we could make the CFP.
September 21st, 2019 at 7:13 PM ^
National Championships? I'm still waiting for Jim to play for a Conference Championship.
September 21st, 2019 at 7:16 PM ^
He cant even win the big ten and your asking about a national championship? How about an he make it to indy? Can he beat ohio state? can he win as an underdog?