I went to Allentown and it was...good?
I don't mean this to be a hawt take, but Allentown might be a great regional for Michigan Hockey. I expected the place to be dead on Sunday- it wasn't a sellout but the lower bowl was crowded and about 80/20 Michigan fans. The arena is 90 minutes from Philly and NYC, both places with lots of alums; I got seats a few rows back from the glass for like $40 and had a blast.
Did anyone else make it?
March 28th, 2022 at 10:15 AM ^
I thought the energy level of the crowd (on TV) was good. Couldn't hear the band much, though. Does Quinnipiac have enough students to field a hockey team and a band at the same time?
Well, yeah, but not when they're doing one of their polls.
I was in Lake Placid weekend of 3/19 for my kids' CanAm hockey tournament and was able to catch the ECAC finals. I can vouch for Quinnipiac having both a small band AND cheerleaders.
I can also vouch for all the hockey dads not paying nearly enough attention to the hockey game
March 28th, 2022 at 10:15 AM ^
Double post, move along, nothing to see here...
March 28th, 2022 at 10:16 AM ^
Michigan travels pretty well to regionals. I went to Green Bay years back and I was impressed with the Michigan turnout.
The problem with attendance is that Michigan hockey can’t fill a 6-8000 seat rink 5 hours from home on its own, and neither can anybody else.
Nor should they.
Whether they should be holding regionals in these places is a separate question from whether they can be fun. Sounds like you had a blast, and good for you. I’ve enjoyed my share of empty-ish arena experiences, including Michigan’s gripping win over fellow FF participant Minnesota State in the Ice Breaker this season.
Glad it was a fun time. Looked like a good group of Michigan fans.
March 28th, 2022 at 10:26 AM ^
Yes, please don't take my post a defense of neutral site regionals. The atmosphere was good for Allentown, not Yost.
I thought it was telling of the lack of Quin fans that the seats right behind the Quin bench were all maize and blue clad Michigan fans. Would like to have seen a clever sign, like they do at Yost (East Landfill Junior Hockey for example)
March 28th, 2022 at 10:40 AM ^
You’re much more knowledgeable about hockey than me: why does the NCAA insist on these hockey regionals in small towns that are really hard to get to vs. putting them in places like Detroit, Chicago, Boston, Pittsburgh, Philly, etc much like how the basketball tournament does?
March 28th, 2022 at 11:17 AM ^
The reason is that you need an arena and host school willing to bid on a regional. The western schools are widely dispersed enough that the financial success of the regionals typically depends on the host school (or, less frequently, a different school that is also close) making the tournament and bringing thousands of fans to ameliorate the considerable costs involved.
This philosophy has failed enough times that few arenas and few schools are willing to bother anymore. Even relatively successful regionals like St. Paul draw far worse than any kind of home site would, and arenas that get bad team combinations draw horribly.
Thus, the NCAA puts regionals in Allentown because nobody will bid to host anywhere else.
The four-team regional model simply doesn’t work in the west. It works ok in the East, where you can usually count on at least one team being close enough to Worcester to put fans in the stands; it is a failure out here.
There are a number of potential solutions, but the powers that be are malevolently indifferent to the well-being of the sport.
March 28th, 2022 at 12:41 PM ^
Here's what I don't understand (and it's probably just a money thing): why can baseball, softball, volleyball, field hockey, lacrosse, women's basketball and women's ice hockey can all do the early rounds on campus sites, but ice hockey insists on following the men's basketball model with neutral sites?
March 28th, 2022 at 12:49 PM ^
I would assume that it would be the logistics of having 12 regional games (rounds 1 and 2) in potentially 12 different sites vs just 4 sites.
The only thing I ever hear is arena availability for schools whose arenas are multi-purpose or have several tenants. Otherwise I've never had a good counter point other than the idea that an empty arena is more 'fair'
To your point, college baseball and softball aren't competing for field time like you find in a multipurpose building. MLB just hosted a multi team collage tournament in Texas - the stadium was empty due to lock-out/Spring Training
Basketball brings in revenue that all the major venues need. Allentown says "sure, let's host hockey and make a few bucks. We're not doing anything else that weekend"
Partly it's arena availability, eg, OSU usually won't bid with Value City Arena b/c state HS tournaments are held there this time of year.
Home arenas are out b/c the majority of hockey schools are smaller and don't want to go to a place like Yost. So the rules for eligble arenas exclude Yost, Munn, etc (some min seating number above 9-10k I assume) Hence the empty arena is more 'fair' argument.
Quite simply, because North Dakota and Denver were higher seeds, and had to play Michigan at Yost. And lost. And complained.
March 29th, 2022 at 12:00 AM ^
Yep. Lower seeded Michigan hosting at Yost beat North Dakota in 1998, Denver in 2002, and both Colorado College and Maine in 2003.
I remember either CC or Maine complaining about all the "vulgar" cheers, too.
2003 was the last year Yost was allowed to host NCAA tournament games.
I think given the average attendance, any regionals at NHL sized rinks are almost certainly money losers so they'll only bid on Frozen Fours. Regionals are typically bid on by places with AHL / ECHL sized rinks and there aren't as many of those out west and the ones that are, arent interested in losing a lot of money on a sparsely attended regional
I was at the game last night as Allentown is only an hour and 15 minutes from my home. Very excited to see the team play and enjoyed the game. With that said, I think the top seeds should host the Regionals as it would be more likely to sell out. Last night was well attended, but far from a sell out.
March 28th, 2022 at 10:19 AM ^
Definitely looked like it filled out a lot better for the regional final - it was pretty sparse Friday but not too surprising for a 3p Friday puck drop in a city 1+ hours away from the large cities with all the M alums. I was pleasantly surprised to see it fairly well filled out with M fans for a Sunday night puck drop
March 28th, 2022 at 10:30 AM ^
Sounds great, glad you were able to get there to support, and that it was an enjoyable experience.
I'm making the trip to Boston and hoping to see a ton of Michigan fans in attendance!
March 28th, 2022 at 10:37 AM ^
I recently disparaged Allentown rather vociferously as a regular regional host site. I stand by my words, mostly for travel logistical and hockey relevance reasons. But I will grudgingly admit that the atmosphere looked quite lively for the UM-Q game. It seemed like that was largely driven by the UM fanbase coming out in droves to support our squad. Kudos to everyone who made the trip and contributed to the noise level!
I think it worked out well that Allentown is <2 hours from the entire Philly to NYC corridor. My guess would be most of the M fans came from that region rather than folks from Michigan travelling to Allentown. By having alums everywhere, we accidentally made neutral site regionals look more viable. D'oh!
March 28th, 2022 at 10:38 AM ^
My parents actually called me on Sunday morning to see if I wanted to go. It's about an hour drive for them and 1 1/2 hours for me. I decided against it.
They then texted me several hours later with a view of their seats. It looked fun and high energy.
March 28th, 2022 at 10:55 AM ^
Were all the factories actually shut down?
March 28th, 2022 at 11:32 AM ^
It was the weekend. Everyone was at the Jersey Shore.
Iron, coke, chromium steel
March 28th, 2022 at 10:59 AM ^
Glad to hear you weren't killing time in Bethlehem, filling out forms and standing in line.
March 28th, 2022 at 11:32 AM ^
*stares wistfully at his degree hanging on his wall*
March 28th, 2022 at 12:57 PM ^
I lived this song. I used to live in Bethlehem, and over in Allentown too.
All the factories are indeed closed down. I worked in a couple of them.
The Bethlehem steel factory - where they produced the steel that is in the Empire State Building - is now a casino.
But they do love and support their local hockey team, which is one of the reasons they get the NCAA hockey regional.
March 28th, 2022 at 11:06 AM ^
If they want larger rinks, why not places like Grand Rapids, Saginaw, or hell, even Port Huron?
March 28th, 2022 at 11:19 AM ^
They won’t bid and can’t fill larger rinks.
Grand Rapids hosted several successful regionals in the 6-team regional days. They hosted a couple in the 4-team regional era and they didn’t go well.
What's the difference? Is it just having six sets of fans vs. four?
Partly. The last neutral 6-team west regional was 2001 in Grand Rapids. Michigan and Michigan State both brought good fan contingents, of course, and so did Wisconsin. It didn't sell out, but it sold well.
The next time GR hosted a regional that included Michigan was 2005, and it drew a decent 6500 on both days; however, two years later MSU made it there, played in both games, and drew 4000.
The tipping point was 2013 when GR and Toledo inexplicably hosted regionals in the same year... and neither Michigan (hosting Toledo) nor Michigan State made the tournament. Both drew less than 3000.
And that was it, really.
I think it's a combination of team quantity and changing consumer tastes; the issues with in-person attendance in many sports can be particularly magnified in a situation where an overpriced regional that requires travel to attend (sometimes at inconvenient times--during a workday, or on a Sunday night in Fort Wayne a couple hours from where you have to get up for work the next morning) and is known to be an underwhelming experience just doesn't draw huge quantities of ticketbuyers.
March 28th, 2022 at 11:25 AM ^
It looked surprisingly good last night. It looked bleak on Friday, but even the men's basketball tournament can look bleak for the work-hours sessions.
On another note, what do we anticipate for the FF? I live just outside Boston, so I'm obviously going, I expect plenty of Michigan and Minnesota fans. Denver certainly has enough of a fanbase that they really packed that Loveland regional. No idea what Minnesota State's is like.
I attended the ALbany regional but missed the MSU noon game on Thurday (b/c obvsly). ND had their share on Thursday night but NoDak was about 60-40. NoDak ALWAYS travels well and are obnoxious btw. Essentially, their fans are not allowed outside the state of ND except for this tournament.
Thurs had about 1000 fans, maybe 1500 at most. Sat probably 2000, maybe 2500. Sat for ND-MSU: MSU had a small but loud group with plenty of M-S-U chants and a good "oOLE-oleoleole, OLE, OLE" chant after thier lone goal. Good group, but ND def out drew them 70-30 I'd say. Lots of subway alums in upstate NY for ND. Lots of local Cawledge Hawkey fans from the ECAC.
Denver will have a solid group, MSU as well. Minn and Michigan will for sure have the most I'd image. M more the Minn I assume.
March 28th, 2022 at 11:55 AM ^
I attended the game on Friday afternoon in Allentown. I had been to the regionals at PPL in Allentown before and thought it was a fun experience (was there with one of my daughters to see Penn State as my daughter played on woman's hockey team there). The energy level/intensity on Friday was a lot lower than yesterday. We drove to Easton, PA afterwards and had an excellent dinner at a place called Amans. All in all a great afternoon/evening.
March 28th, 2022 at 12:14 PM ^
I was there, with my two boys, and we had a great time! Good size arena, easy to park and get tickets, and of course a win helped everything. My two boys (6 and 9), both said after the game, that they loved it.
March 28th, 2022 at 12:21 PM ^
Awesome.
On a couple of occasions I have benefitted from relatively empty arenas that still drew the Michigan pep band with my kids. Green Bay, as mentioned elsewhere, and also St. Paul in 2016, when my daughter and I moved to an empty section to sit right in front of the Michigan band, get pics with them, and watch Kyle Connor carve Penn State into pencil shavings.
It was so empty that I held a conversation with mgouser Alton on a different deck of the arena.
March 28th, 2022 at 12:24 PM ^
The teletubbies costumes made the difference on Sunday
March 28th, 2022 at 12:40 PM ^
Same here. I got tickets at about the red line, 9 rows up for less than $50 each. Pretty good atmosphere but obviously a lot worse than Yost. Q's colors are almost identical to ours so it was a little hard to tell who was who in the crowd. We definitely had more people though. Won't be parking high in that spiral parking deck again though - it took forever to get out of there.
March 28th, 2022 at 12:57 PM ^
Went Fri and sat on the ice. Had a good time and went to brewery across the street so all in all a solid afternoon.
I went on Friday (took about 4.5 hours from Richmond) and met my college roommate who came from NJ. I was surprised by how few fans there were but as others have said, Friday at 3 pm and all. Plus competing with the MBB team playing in San Antonio.
I will say that Allentown was not what I expected. City is very clean and (seems) safe. Enjoyed walking around during day and night. PPL Center is a nice venue and there are plenty of watering holes right around the facility. Would go back again.
I attended the Friday games, but already had tickets to a concert on Sunday. I sat in row 2 of the upper deck and had a great view. There were a reasonable number of Michigan fans around me, but also fans of other teams or just hockey fans from the area that attend games regularly. The nonpartisan fan beside me noticed the gap in talent level and thought our pep band (sitting in the corner to our right) was impressive. I congratulated the pep band when I saw them picking up food at a nearby food court between games. I stayed for the second game and had a great time overall, even though I got back home at 1:30 AM.