How do we replicate OSU's modern success?

Submitted by bama north on November 15th, 2020 at 11:29 PM

1.  We are at point A.  Let's start talking about how we get from point A to point B (being a NC contender).  Let's stop re-re-re-analyzing the past.  Let's start, simply, talking about how best to get from where we currently are, to where we would like to be.

2.  Where we are.  We are the 3rd richest college football program in the country (behind just Texas and Texas A&M, according to Forbes' latest summation).  We have the 2nd biggest fanbase/tv audience in the country (behind just OSU, according to the NYTimes' latest summation).  We have the biggest alumni group in the country.  We have facilities that are second to none.  We have academic and athletic support-staff that is second to none.  We have the biggest stadium in the country.  We have a high school-to-the-NFL pitch that is as strong as anyone's.  We have the best academics-football combo in the country.  Where we are, Point A, is a pretty nice place to be.

3.  Where is OSU?  Leave your BS at the door, please.  OSU is an outstanding, public, Big10 University.  They have the exact same admissions standards as us.  And I'm sure their generic "general studies" degrees are just as incredibly easy as ours.  Our administration -- from Lloyd to Harbaugh -- has given its head football coaches everything they need to compete.  Facilities, Assistant salary pools, recruiting budgets, private jet use, support staff, marketing, fan support, you name it..  we have it at the absolute highest level.  Michigan football coaches get everything they need to succeed.  Don't listen to lazy a-holes like Harbaugh...who don't even go out on recruiting trips, or research coordinator hires, let alone assistant hires...cry foul.  The state of Ohio produces more talent than the state of Michigan, but it's not THAT big of a difference.  Count the 4+ stars that have come from each state over the past 5 yrs and you'll find it's about the same.  There's a reason OSU's recruiting has had such a national emphasis the past decade.  And leave this BS about "cheating" at the door, too.  If Juwan Howard was in Columbus signing the classes that he is here....  you people would be absolutely unbearable to listen to.  Michigan players get benefits.  OSU players get benefits.  Stop acting like this is Yale.  Stop acting like OSU is Ole Miss.  STOP MAKING STUPID EXCUSES.  How do we get from point A to point B??

4.  Recruiting.  Look at OSU's staff.  9 of their 11 on-field coaches have been named to 247/Rivals Top-25 Recruiter lists.  Day, Wilson, Alford, Hartline, Studrawa, Coombs, Mattison, Johnson, Washington.  They have two other young guys who probably will as well soon.  Look at our staff.  We have 4..  Gattis, Sherrone, Warinner and Jean-Mary.  Ohio State emphasizes recruiting more than we do.  Plain and simple.  They don't have Urban Meyer's son who doesn't recruit that well on staff, or Josh McDaniels' brother, or NFL/Old School guys who don't like to recruit..  or who just aren't very good at it (Zordich, Shoop, Nua, Brown).  At OSU, being an outstanding recruiter is a pre-requisite.  And being an *outstanding* (not okay, or good, or even really good) recruiter is something that needs to become a prerequisite to working here too.  We need a head coach who understands the importance of this.

5.  Culture.  How many times in the past 6 yrs have you read a story about some disgruntled player's (aka child's) mommy and/or daddy complaining to Harbaugh about how their son is being treated??  This is a high school program.  It's where kids go to school and then play football after class.  At OSU, it's a professional operation.  It's focused.  It's where high school kids go to become pros, and where they take classes on the side, and where their mommies and daddies can't baby them.  This is 2020.  If you want to be a Lawyer, a Doctor, a Teacher, a whatever...  go to Northwestern, go to Vanderbilt, go to an Ivy league school, go to Rice, go to Stanford, whatever.  If you want to be an outstanding NFL player with a great fallback option (and a great masters you can pursue as a 5th yr, or in the pro off-season)...  come to Michigan.  And this isn't 6th grade camp where your parents get to second guess the counselors.  This is billion dollar business.  This is training to become a professional.  This is cut-throat, cream rises to the top, soft washes out.  This is beat f******g Ohio State or f*****g else.  We need a head coach who comes from a Saban/Meyer/Dabo-like no-nonsense professional background.  Someone who can set the culture here and treat this like a professional program.

6.  Coordinators.  Last 5yrs, who have OSU's coordinators been?  On offense, it's basically been Urban (one of the greatest offensive minds of his time) passing the torch to Day (seemingly one of the best offensive minds of his time).  Kevin Wilson...one of the modern Big10's greatest offensive minds...has been in the background.  Tom Herman, Mike Yurcich, Tim Beck.  It's 2020...even Nick Saban is giving up 40 pts in playoff games.  You have to be innovative, you have to be able to score.  If your head coach isn't a great offensive mind, he'd better know how to hire one.  Josh Gattis....  we made a big deal out of this guy....  he wasn't even Mike Locksley's backup OC at Bama, he was Locksley's backup's (Enos) backup.  Pep Hamilton went to the XFL after being here.  Tim Drevno was coaching RB's in the Pac12 after being here.  It's been a joke.  Look at OSU's D-Coordinators over the last 5yrs.  Kerry Coombs...NFL guy (who also happens to be one of the best recruiters in modern Big10 history).  Jeff Hafley...NFL guy (who was probably the best DC in all of college football in his one season before becoming a HC, and also TORE IT UP as a recruiter).  Greg Schiano...  NFL HC (who was set to be Bill Belichick's DC between the Tennessee fiasco and the Rutgers return...  and who recruited the HELL out of the northeast).  Luke Fickell..  another of the all-time best modern Big10 recruiters, who may now be the frontrunner for our HC'ing job.  Alex Grinch was an assistant as well in that span.  Durkin was a fine DC, and recruiter..  before his issues.  But Don Brown was just a gimmick ACC DC who's never recruited other than 3-stars and New England talent.  These OSU guys aren't getting paid or supported more than Michigan coordinators.  They're just smarter, better hires.  And we need a coach who knows how to spend our money wisely.

*****

To summarize a long story.  Point A is an outstanding place to be, for us (we're very blessed to have a number of things).  Point B --> being an annual NC contender; a program that rivals or even bests OSU's..  is a very realistic goal.  We need a new head coach who A) Sets a professional culture.  B) Emphasizes the importance of recruiting and hires great recruiters (maybe perhaps himself even being a great recruiter).  And C) Who knows how to spend our top-notch money well on coordinators.  We need someone with talent, with hunger, and schooling in the modern ways.

-Mario Cristobal's seen how it's done in Saban's program.  He's had some success already in running his own.  Excellent recruiter.  Excellent hire'r of recruiters and coordinators.

-Jeff Scott.  He's seen how it's done in Dabo's program.  He's just starting off on his own.  Venables, in the same token, has seen how Dabo's done it as well.  Both are great recruiters personally..  hopefully they'd hire great ones, too.  Tony Elliott..not as great a recruiter as the other two...but there.

-Urban would obviously be the ideal hire, if there's enough money in the world to get him.  I don't care about his idiot ex-assistant/Earl Bruce's nephew's ridiculous domestic situation or texts at this point.

-Joe Brady and Lincoln Riley are the kind of outstanding offensive minds Meyer and Day are/were.  Lincoln's got some good experience running his own show.  Brady's seen it done right at LSU.

-Fickell, Campbell, Fleck, either Stoops, others.  

I don't know who the right answer is.  But I know that this is far from a hopeless situation; in fact, I think it's still an outstanding situation.  And the issues that need to be addressed to get us from point A to point B are, in my opinion, far from insurmountable.  

Absorbine Sr.

November 16th, 2020 at 1:43 AM ^

One thing we have to do is stop hanging on to a lousy coach because of BS sentimentality and the belief that, because of his past association with UM as a player, he “Deserves better” than to be fired for vastly under delivering what was expected from him.

Let’s not forget that OSU’s ascendency to national powerhouse status started when they fired John Cooper. He may get trashed a lot, but the facts are, from 1993 to 2000, Cooper won 3 Big 10 titles, finished in the top 10 nationally 5 times, with 10+ wins all those seasons, and won a Rose and Sugar Bowl; far superior to anything Harbaugh has accomplished in 6 seasons.

Most programs nationally would be thrilled with those kind of numbers, but OSU said “Nope, blows too many big games and is 2-10-1 vs. Michigan. Sorry John.” They then took a flier on a little known, but highly successful, Division 1-AA coach in Jim Tressel, and we’ve been in OSU’s rear view mirror for 20 years now as a result.

OSU and its fans didn’t wring their hands over not being fair to Cooper and whine and fret about who they’d get to coach after him while demanding the new coach be one of Woody’s boys. They decided that, even with the pretty high level of success they’d had, they wanted more and went out and made a great coaching hire and have gotten everything they dreamed of as a result.

That’s what we’re going to have to do if we have a prayer of catching OSU anytime in the near future. 

Buy Bushwood

November 16th, 2020 at 2:08 AM ^

Well, both of O$U's last two coaches left immediately after scandals emphasizing their amorality caught fire. So there is that. Not to mention Tressel's spawn of Satan Mork Dantonio. I wouldn't accept the way Tressel or Urban run programs at Michigan. I'd rather not be a hardcore fan and redo my priorities than see that kind of behavior in AA. Having said that, there is no reason a coach can't win big at UM, other than their own inadequacies. Clemson was winning national titles before their recruiting really stabilized in the top 10.  

I'm not concerned about paying players and think it should be legitimized, as players are the draw, not overfed conference commissioners. Not to mention that enforcement is just an exercise in hypocrisy for the NCAA.  Either enforce your rules to make people stop, or lose the rules you're not willing to enforce.  

To me, the question really is: can an innovative coach come in here, recruit well, but lead a relatively clean program where players aren't getting bailed out of jail to play on saturday, are getting booted if they commit sexual assault, where the coach isn't lying to the NCAA or helping to hush up assistant coaches beating up their wives.  I'm willing to tolerate the usual crap from 20 year old spoiled kids.

A job for a player's mom doesn't bother me, or a bag of cash I never hear about.  I'll never forget being disappointed when Barry Sanders turned pro early (I don't watch the NFL), and then reading his dad saying that his son just won the most prestigious award in college football, and he couldn't afford to fix his leaky roof on their 2-bedroom house in Wichita.  Ever since then, I've thought players should either profit share, and/or bolt to the NFL ASAP, as much as it pains me to watch the Jabrill Peppers of the world split.  

Indy Pete - Go Blue

November 16th, 2020 at 4:28 AM ^

Bama North is obsessed with the o$u - but osu is on a tier below Bama. Perhaps you should post on 11 warriors whining about how far osu is from achieving Bama’s success, because face it: Clemson and Bama are on their own tier and osu is desperately trying to get there. Minimizing Michigan’s excellence academically was an early sign for me that you may cheer for a program with an inferiority complex. Your moniker also indicates you may cheer differently than most here. Sorry, but despite having similar methods and values, osu is not Bama north, however badly they want to be. 

Meyer was an incredibly successful coach - but character counts and if doing things the right way means we cannot get to the level of osu, so be it. Sincere question for Bama north: do you love osu and hate Michigan?  Have I mislabeled you in my assessment that you take pleasure in trying to elevate osu over Michigan whenever possible? Looking at your previous posts, it strikes me that you may be a fake fan who actually hates Michigan. If I am wrong - perhaps you should start cheering for osu given your name and your relentless penchant for praising them. 

bama north

November 16th, 2020 at 7:16 AM ^

Fucking losers like you are the “culture” problem.  Shut your stupid, worthless, pussy mouth.

Hiring a good coach who hires good coordinators and good recruiters and wins football games isn’t a violation of some ethic.  It’s called running a fucking business correctly.  And it’s what we used to do here before Gary got hammered and slugged a cop.  It’s not recruiting a bunch of criminals who can’t read.  And your moronic, racist characterizations of the 18yr olds who go to schools like OSU and Bama on football scholarships is beyond sickening.  95+% of them are outstanding young Americans and student-athletes

And to your other point, OSU is an outstanding public University.  And Michigan is not Northwestern.  If you’re delusional and arrogant...then fuck you, it’s not my problem.  

People like you honestly make me sick.  I hope some drunk spartan fan clocks you in the face the next time you make a shit head remark like that at a bar.

 

Indy Pete - Go Blue

November 16th, 2020 at 7:34 AM ^

There it is:  the predictable, emotional, mean-spirited name calling.  You even added in the completely unsubstantiated and unsourced false accusation of racism. A new low! 
 

While you didn’t directly answer my questions, you emphatically showed us all your answers. You guys are just so predictable. Go blue!

RGard

November 16th, 2020 at 8:07 AM ^

Before he started with the name-calling and other poor form, his original post mentioned the general studies degree being easy.

That's a red flag every time.  

1. There's only one major difference between the bachelor of general studies and a bachelor of the arts/science:  there's no foreign language requirement.  You still have to take 300 and 400 level classes just like everybody else.  Those are not easy.

2. That's a common theme over on 11 fake-warriors: moaning about a general studies degree at Michigan.

Bodybag

November 16th, 2020 at 9:50 AM ^

Woah, triggered? Monday morning at 7am and someone never quit drinking and went to bed. I thought the op initially did a nice write up to start the thread but has lost all credibility with this comment. Regardless of the coaching search, this guy exemplifies the a clear difference in both character and intellect between an osu and Michigan grad. That being said, the entire football culture needs to be razed.

CLord

November 16th, 2020 at 9:48 AM ^

Cool.  But we can sure embrace getting shit canned 77-17 on national tv each year by OSU like will happen this year, while OSU's coaches end up legends with Fox GameDay gigs where they make fun of us.

Last 3 coaches that came here had their careers substantially stained.

That right there is something our university should not embrace.  "But we sure do things the right way!"

Your comment is part of the problem.  I would take emulating the OSU approach every day and twice on Sunday, warts and all.  Sick of "holier than thou, we do things the right way, it would not fly at Michigan" sanctimonious drivel from our fans as our program gets repeatedly kicked in the nuts.

Icehole Woody

November 16th, 2020 at 5:29 AM ^

Michigan needs to recruit better if they are to ever consistently compete with Ohio State. Its going to take a long while to turn that around.  Michigan needs to recruit better in Ohio and Pennsylvania for one.  And maybe re-think how Michigan handles scholarships.  Are four year scholarships what is best for the program?  As is they’re not keeping the best for four years anyways.

lhglrkwg

November 16th, 2020 at 6:20 AM ^

Need better coaching and that's it really. This team is talented enough to win the Big Ten in most years. Just nobody on this staff has any clue how to beat OSU and now in 2020 beating OSU isn't even in question. John Beilein resurrected a dead basketball program. Red Berenson did the same for a lifeless hockey program. The right staff is out there and you'll always be able to recruit well enough here if you get that

blueheron

November 16th, 2020 at 7:07 AM ^

OP, I *did* enjoy reading your post. There's some good stuff in it. You slipped a few times:

"We have academic and athletic support-staff that is second to none."

Most SEC players major in eligibility. I don't imagine you're referring to that.

"We have the best academics-football combo in the country."

For every Noah Furbush, there are hundreds of guys who will take "Sports Management and Communications" and become brake pad salesmen. They can do that at Mississippi State or Michigan.

"They have the exact same admissions standards as us."

Really? I suppose it's an accident that most of Michigan's grad and undergrad programs outrank OSU's?

"Count the 4+ stars that have come from each state over the past 5 yrs and you'll find it's about the same."

That sounds ridiculous, but I can't prove it in real time. Maybe I'll get back to you.

"Michigan players get benefits. OSU players get benefits."

Do you think they get the same amount? That seems like an important question.

"If you want to be a Lawyer, a Doctor, a Teacher, a whatever...  go to Northwestern, go to Vanderbilt, go to an Ivy league school, go to Rice, go to Stanford, whatever."

This is somewhat opposed to your earlier statement about "athletics-football combo."

Minent Domain

November 16th, 2020 at 8:28 AM ^

A delta of 12 in a 5-year period isn't insurmountable, but it's also not insubstantial. 2-3 per year is 10% of your starters; if they're a step better than the next best player, they get open (or not) and a 2 yard gain becomes 5. Not to mention that if you have to replace those players outside of Michigan that takes disproportionate travel time and energy.

RGard

November 16th, 2020 at 7:46 AM ^

OP wrote:  And I'm sure their generic "general studies" degrees are just as incredibly easy as ours.

Do you even know the difference between a general studies degree and a bachelor of science or bachelor of the arts degree at Michigan?

Laser Wolf

November 16th, 2020 at 7:51 AM ^

If you want to compete on the level of Ohio State, Clemson, and Alabama, you need to ditch the pretense of amateurism. They treat their football programs like professional outfits, for better or worse.

You also need to ditch the idea that Michigan is special just because it's special. No current recruit has any memory of Michigan being terribly relevant in the national picture so stop banging the drum of long-dead success. It doesn't matter to recruits and won't help you win in the future.

Catchafire

November 16th, 2020 at 8:15 AM ^

Let's talk academic barriers for athletes.  If you don't have that discussion then you aren't serious.  Chris Evans, for whatever reason, had to sit out last year due to academics while Cardale Jones on record went to OSU not to play school and Just Fields took online classes...

That's one aspect.  I also think Harbaugh has a personality issue where he runs off talented players and coaches.  That's okay if you are winning but not if the cupboard is bare.

608Monroe

November 16th, 2020 at 8:24 AM ^

There is foundational issue even above the very well-considered summary you’ve laid out here. That being: 

Are we an elite academic institution which has solid football?  Or are we an elite football institution with solid academics?  

The regents and President must make this decision plain for the players, coaches, alumni, boosters, and fans.  Only then will we all understand the culture and what “Point B” should look like.  People should know what the actual ROI is for coming to Michigan.  Not the BS in our hype videos. 

dickdastardly

November 16th, 2020 at 8:39 AM ^

I highly doubt that Michigan will ever employ the tactics that OSU does to win. Michigan, under Harbaugh, is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. The program isn't just broken, it's a steaming pile of insanity. 

I laughed during the game when Holly Rowe interrupted Kirk and Chris to highlight the one bright spot of Michigan football and that was their volunteer work. I get it that these kids are doing good work in the community but when the football team is playing some of the worst football we have seen in a long time with the talent on hand, their extra curricular activities just don't cut it.