How do we replicate OSU's modern success?

Submitted by bama north on November 15th, 2020 at 11:29 PM

1.  We are at point A.  Let's start talking about how we get from point A to point B (being a NC contender).  Let's stop re-re-re-analyzing the past.  Let's start, simply, talking about how best to get from where we currently are, to where we would like to be.

2.  Where we are.  We are the 3rd richest college football program in the country (behind just Texas and Texas A&M, according to Forbes' latest summation).  We have the 2nd biggest fanbase/tv audience in the country (behind just OSU, according to the NYTimes' latest summation).  We have the biggest alumni group in the country.  We have facilities that are second to none.  We have academic and athletic support-staff that is second to none.  We have the biggest stadium in the country.  We have a high school-to-the-NFL pitch that is as strong as anyone's.  We have the best academics-football combo in the country.  Where we are, Point A, is a pretty nice place to be.

3.  Where is OSU?  Leave your BS at the door, please.  OSU is an outstanding, public, Big10 University.  They have the exact same admissions standards as us.  And I'm sure their generic "general studies" degrees are just as incredibly easy as ours.  Our administration -- from Lloyd to Harbaugh -- has given its head football coaches everything they need to compete.  Facilities, Assistant salary pools, recruiting budgets, private jet use, support staff, marketing, fan support, you name it..  we have it at the absolute highest level.  Michigan football coaches get everything they need to succeed.  Don't listen to lazy a-holes like Harbaugh...who don't even go out on recruiting trips, or research coordinator hires, let alone assistant hires...cry foul.  The state of Ohio produces more talent than the state of Michigan, but it's not THAT big of a difference.  Count the 4+ stars that have come from each state over the past 5 yrs and you'll find it's about the same.  There's a reason OSU's recruiting has had such a national emphasis the past decade.  And leave this BS about "cheating" at the door, too.  If Juwan Howard was in Columbus signing the classes that he is here....  you people would be absolutely unbearable to listen to.  Michigan players get benefits.  OSU players get benefits.  Stop acting like this is Yale.  Stop acting like OSU is Ole Miss.  STOP MAKING STUPID EXCUSES.  How do we get from point A to point B??

4.  Recruiting.  Look at OSU's staff.  9 of their 11 on-field coaches have been named to 247/Rivals Top-25 Recruiter lists.  Day, Wilson, Alford, Hartline, Studrawa, Coombs, Mattison, Johnson, Washington.  They have two other young guys who probably will as well soon.  Look at our staff.  We have 4..  Gattis, Sherrone, Warinner and Jean-Mary.  Ohio State emphasizes recruiting more than we do.  Plain and simple.  They don't have Urban Meyer's son who doesn't recruit that well on staff, or Josh McDaniels' brother, or NFL/Old School guys who don't like to recruit..  or who just aren't very good at it (Zordich, Shoop, Nua, Brown).  At OSU, being an outstanding recruiter is a pre-requisite.  And being an *outstanding* (not okay, or good, or even really good) recruiter is something that needs to become a prerequisite to working here too.  We need a head coach who understands the importance of this.

5.  Culture.  How many times in the past 6 yrs have you read a story about some disgruntled player's (aka child's) mommy and/or daddy complaining to Harbaugh about how their son is being treated??  This is a high school program.  It's where kids go to school and then play football after class.  At OSU, it's a professional operation.  It's focused.  It's where high school kids go to become pros, and where they take classes on the side, and where their mommies and daddies can't baby them.  This is 2020.  If you want to be a Lawyer, a Doctor, a Teacher, a whatever...  go to Northwestern, go to Vanderbilt, go to an Ivy league school, go to Rice, go to Stanford, whatever.  If you want to be an outstanding NFL player with a great fallback option (and a great masters you can pursue as a 5th yr, or in the pro off-season)...  come to Michigan.  And this isn't 6th grade camp where your parents get to second guess the counselors.  This is billion dollar business.  This is training to become a professional.  This is cut-throat, cream rises to the top, soft washes out.  This is beat f******g Ohio State or f*****g else.  We need a head coach who comes from a Saban/Meyer/Dabo-like no-nonsense professional background.  Someone who can set the culture here and treat this like a professional program.

6.  Coordinators.  Last 5yrs, who have OSU's coordinators been?  On offense, it's basically been Urban (one of the greatest offensive minds of his time) passing the torch to Day (seemingly one of the best offensive minds of his time).  Kevin Wilson...one of the modern Big10's greatest offensive minds...has been in the background.  Tom Herman, Mike Yurcich, Tim Beck.  It's 2020...even Nick Saban is giving up 40 pts in playoff games.  You have to be innovative, you have to be able to score.  If your head coach isn't a great offensive mind, he'd better know how to hire one.  Josh Gattis....  we made a big deal out of this guy....  he wasn't even Mike Locksley's backup OC at Bama, he was Locksley's backup's (Enos) backup.  Pep Hamilton went to the XFL after being here.  Tim Drevno was coaching RB's in the Pac12 after being here.  It's been a joke.  Look at OSU's D-Coordinators over the last 5yrs.  Kerry Coombs...NFL guy (who also happens to be one of the best recruiters in modern Big10 history).  Jeff Hafley...NFL guy (who was probably the best DC in all of college football in his one season before becoming a HC, and also TORE IT UP as a recruiter).  Greg Schiano...  NFL HC (who was set to be Bill Belichick's DC between the Tennessee fiasco and the Rutgers return...  and who recruited the HELL out of the northeast).  Luke Fickell..  another of the all-time best modern Big10 recruiters, who may now be the frontrunner for our HC'ing job.  Alex Grinch was an assistant as well in that span.  Durkin was a fine DC, and recruiter..  before his issues.  But Don Brown was just a gimmick ACC DC who's never recruited other than 3-stars and New England talent.  These OSU guys aren't getting paid or supported more than Michigan coordinators.  They're just smarter, better hires.  And we need a coach who knows how to spend our money wisely.

*****

To summarize a long story.  Point A is an outstanding place to be, for us (we're very blessed to have a number of things).  Point B --> being an annual NC contender; a program that rivals or even bests OSU's..  is a very realistic goal.  We need a new head coach who A) Sets a professional culture.  B) Emphasizes the importance of recruiting and hires great recruiters (maybe perhaps himself even being a great recruiter).  And C) Who knows how to spend our top-notch money well on coordinators.  We need someone with talent, with hunger, and schooling in the modern ways.

-Mario Cristobal's seen how it's done in Saban's program.  He's had some success already in running his own.  Excellent recruiter.  Excellent hire'r of recruiters and coordinators.

-Jeff Scott.  He's seen how it's done in Dabo's program.  He's just starting off on his own.  Venables, in the same token, has seen how Dabo's done it as well.  Both are great recruiters personally..  hopefully they'd hire great ones, too.  Tony Elliott..not as great a recruiter as the other two...but there.

-Urban would obviously be the ideal hire, if there's enough money in the world to get him.  I don't care about his idiot ex-assistant/Earl Bruce's nephew's ridiculous domestic situation or texts at this point.

-Joe Brady and Lincoln Riley are the kind of outstanding offensive minds Meyer and Day are/were.  Lincoln's got some good experience running his own show.  Brady's seen it done right at LSU.

-Fickell, Campbell, Fleck, either Stoops, others.  

I don't know who the right answer is.  But I know that this is far from a hopeless situation; in fact, I think it's still an outstanding situation.  And the issues that need to be addressed to get us from point A to point B are, in my opinion, far from insurmountable.  

bama north

November 16th, 2020 at 11:24 AM ^

You want to know how to replicate OSU's success?  Here.  I'll give you a simple step-by-step guide.

#1) Hire an elite recruiter/assistant from Saban or Dabo's tree.  Mario Cristobal, Jeff Scott, Brent Venables.  These guys know how an actual program is run.  And Dabo's long-time guys know how one is built.

#2) Give them the same Assistant Salary Pool that Saban, Dabo, Smart, Harbaugh, etc. get. 

#3) Let them hire whoever the hell they want to hire.  Let them recruit whoever the hell they want to recruit.  Give them what they need and stay the f**k out of their business.  If Dylan McCaffrey's mother calls Warde and tells him her son's feeling are hurt......  tough f**king s**t grow the f**k up or leave.

RustyCleats

November 16th, 2020 at 12:05 PM ^

I think it's a bit naive of OP to think it is this simple. There are some good points but politics rule the roost and OP doesn't touch a single point along those lines.

Remember Harbaugh the first 2-3 years? Eagerly going to recruits homes, playing shirtless basketball, signing of the stars, all the camps, animated on the sidelines, etc?

What happened to that Harbaugh? He didn't deflate after getting robbed in 2016.

Harbaugh has shut down personality-wise. He has a flat affect. It's almost like a classic case of manic-depressive.

I think Harbaugh has been neutered by the administration. Been told by his superiors to tone down his antics, quit playing shirtless, don't spend nights at recruits, quit hopping around on the sidelines.

The program makes money, the football players do well academically and do well in the community, and the Football program is clean. You can dig but there's nothing to find.

The big guys like that. That's how the program is going to be.

The only way out of that is for the boosters to quit writing checks and to sway the Regents opinion.

If Harbaugh was left to be Harbaugh, we would be in a different spot. But in this world of "me-too" and cultural correctness, and UofM being super left leaning, that's just how it is for now.

uminks

November 16th, 2020 at 12:27 PM ^

It will never happen. We are doomed to be 3rd or 4th best in the east (assuming IU has passed  us for good). The University could care less if Michigan has a top football program, so Harbaugh is here as long as he wants to be.

BlueGoM

November 16th, 2020 at 1:16 PM ^

1. Stop playing school

2. get guys who think 'everyone murders'

3. ???

4. profit!

Jokes aside, I am in agreement that the Ohio hill may be too steep to climb without at least one or two upset wins along the way.  

I'm not even sure how this team has fallen so far in one season. 

bama north

November 16th, 2020 at 2:47 PM ^

This fan base is the absolute fucking worst on the planet.  It deserves exactly what it's getting.  

We're a national embarrassment.  Ohio State has owned us for 20 yrs.  We spend more money than anyone in the country.  We charge more money than anyone in the country.  Our school is hardly hanging in the top-25 ranked academic programs in the country.  MSU has owned us for a decade.  Wisconsin and Penn St. own us.  We're completely incompetent.  A complete joke to the entire country.  Indiana owns us now.  Rutgers is probably about to waste us.  No good coach is going to want to be a part of the shit hole that is our fan culture.  Bunch of nerds that've never played a down of football, who don't understand anything about it, and think they know everything about it.  The main difference between now and the Bo to Lloyd era is that our fans used to be respectable.  Now it's just a bunch of crying bitching moaning band engineers endlessly bitching and calling everyone else dumb for going to schools of virtually the same merit.  I've actually gotten to the point of liking OSU fans more than you shit holes.

Golden section

November 16th, 2020 at 10:07 PM ^

There are 3 programs in CFB that stand out above the rest,

  1. Bama
  2. Clemson
  3. OSU

Bama has a system and a brand. It is a fine tuned Ferrari. Practices are are precise and efficient. They are the gold standard. There is a revolving door of assistance and a coaching tree that rivals Bill Walsh.

  • Kirby Smart: Georgia HC
  • Jimbo Fisher: Texas A&M HC
  • Jeremy Pruitt: Tennessee HC
  • Will Muschamp: South Carolina HC,
  • Mark Dantonio
  • Jim McElwain : Central Michigan HC,
  • Lane Kiffin : Ole Miss HC,
  • Jason Garrett :
  • Dan Quinn : Atlanta Falcons HC
  • Mike Mularkey :
  • Adam Gase: New York Jets HC
  • Pat Shurmur :
  • Mario Cristobal: Oregon HC
  • Mike Locksley : Maryland HC
  • Billy Napier: Louisiana HC

Clemson has a slightly different model. They keep their assistants. Their top assistants have all been there for at least 10 years. Brent Venables has been there for 22 years. When they get recruited chances are that is who is going to coach them.

OSU is a bit of a hybrid they have some long term guys but not like Clemson. OSU also pays. $ guys, Mattison, Wilson, Walker, and Coombs all make over  a mil. Gattis and Brown are the only ones that make that here.

There are 3 elements to a successful college program:

  1. x's and o's - solid smart coaches
  2. recruitment - Jimmies and Joes
  3. systems - efficient practices, nutrition, S &C,  and protocol, professionalism, etc.

A coach has got to be cognizant of all those facets. Hiring a good young coach like a Joe Brady or a Jamie Chadwell won't be enough. You have to get someone who can be a CEO, obviously really know his football, a good recruiter but also someone that takes his time to hire superior assistance that the university is willing to pay.

caguab

November 17th, 2020 at 1:04 AM ^

I agree with a lot of what is in this post, but what is missing is that there IS something wrong with the culture that transcends the head coach.  Harbaugh is not a bad coach.  Bad coaches don't win Orange Bowls and take teams to the Super Bowl.  I think the problems go even deeper than who the head coach is.  Personally, I think we need someone from the SEC like a Mullen who knows how to play the SEC recruiting game and can coach or a proven coach at a second-tier football program that over performs (a la Chryst).  Fickell, Campbell, & Fleck are pretty much at their ceiling and none are really an upgrade over Harbaugh in my opinion. 

My list:

1) Urban

2) Mullen 

3) Chryst

4) Cristobal

5) Kiffin (would bring back Durkin & Partridge) 

 

RobinRedmond

November 17th, 2020 at 9:31 AM ^

I would consider Steve Sarkisian.  Been HC at Washington and USC, OC for Bama the past two years.  Knows how to recruit and has contacts in the SEC and PAC 12 coaching communities.  QB coach for two Heisman winners under Pete Carroll.  Has overcome his personal demons and now part of the Darth Saban coaching tree.