Did they choose the correct Offense/Defense MVP in NC game?
I don't think this was discussed except briefly in the snowflakes thread. If I missed it I apologize.
I hope it's ok to post this and it could be construed as an "I had a thought" post but I am very curious what others think.
So the winners were Blake Corum and Will Johnson.
On defense I think Mike Sainristil had a better game. Both he and Will had had an interception but Mike's was returned for 84 yards which led to 7 points. Will's led to three. Also Mike had 8 tackles with 6 solo. Will had 4 tackles with 2 solo and also had penalties. I can not think of any reason why he won? Am I missing something?
On offense
Blake 21 carries 134 yards 2 td. 6.4 ypc
Donovan 6 carries 104 yards 2 td. 17.3 ypc
I remember thinking during the game why isn't Donovan getting more carries? He seemed to have a hot hand and I was surprised they didn't give him more chances. I think he arguably had a better game. Perhaps it's because Blake played his last game and seems to be loved by everyone along with being one of the leaders of the team and Donovan may(should?) come back next year. I don't remember who blocked better during the game so maybe that had something to do with it.
January 10th, 2024 at 2:34 AM ^
The best cornerback is the one who gets thrown at the least. That said, they do play different positions so it's difficult to compare, they both played excellent.
The best running back is the one who gets the most carries. Edwards was great, but once Washington corrected their safety run defense play, there were no longer any huge holes for his speed to exploit. Corum was the running back needed when Washington stepped up and played better defense.
January 10th, 2024 at 7:53 AM ^
Totally agree with you assessment of the two RB's. Most importantly, Edwards can rest in the fact that he will FOREVER live in the hearts and minds of Michigan fans with his two runs against OSU and his two runs agains Washington. In both games I think it broke our opponents spirit. Well done young man. You will be a Michigan Legend in my mind for giving me the memories of those 4 runs.
January 10th, 2024 at 8:21 AM ^
Fun fact - 46 yards plus 41 yards = 87 yards.
Donovan's one run vs. OSU was 85 yards. Of course he also had another shorter run at 75 yards.
All 4 of those runs broke the minds and spirits of an opponent.
PS: don't get all "he'd have run for 99 yards if field position had allowed it." I get that. However, over a year later I'm still trying to wrap my mind around a single 85 yard run, much less another one at 75 yards. I don't think I've ever seen anything like that at the college or pro level. Even the Bo Jackson 91-yarder, while impressive, was just one carry. To me, this is like Johnny Vander Meer throwing 2 consecutive no hitters. That record will NEVER be broken. No one will ever match Edwards much less surpass him.
January 10th, 2024 at 10:03 AM ^
It reminds me of Tyrone Wheatley's game in the 1993 Rose Bowl. 15 carries for 235 yards and touchdowns of 88, 56 and 24 yards. The 88-yard touchdown is at about 2:19:00 here (and in retrospect it is surreal to see Bo in the broadcoast booth).
After that game, I have to admit that my expectations were a bit too high--I thought he'd be winning a Heisman. Injury problems his next two years slowed him down a bit, though, and while he had a long pro career he was mostly just a guy in the NFL.
He did, however, play in the Super Bowl when he was at Oakland, albeit in a limited role in an ugly loss.
January 10th, 2024 at 10:29 AM ^
In the 2011 Rose Bowl, De’Anthony Thomas had 2 carries for 155 yards and 2 touchdowns (a 91 yarder and a 64 yarder), in a game that Oregon won by 7. That was pretty wild.
January 10th, 2024 at 11:15 AM ^
I keep watching Edwards big runs and wonder "how he did he just do that?"
Watching him run it doesnt even look like he's running fast. It seems like he's smoking dudes in slow motion. He just has those long strides and you see everyone trying to run him down are chugging their legs trying to catch him. Its just wild to see.
January 10th, 2024 at 2:40 AM ^
I think Will got it because he was largely responsible for Odunze who recorded a fairly modest 5 catches for 87 yds and kept him out of the end zone.
January 10th, 2024 at 4:13 AM ^
Also, his pick at the beginning of the second half was HUGE. Stopped any momentum Washington had built up from scoring late in the first half, and led to a score that made it a 2 score game.
January 10th, 2024 at 4:41 AM ^
Exactly....we all paced at halftime after Washington scored that gut wrenching TD seconds before halftime knowing that Washington 2nd half possession was so important. Like Harbaugh said, "we have to get the momentum back".
Graham gets an assist after dumping the guard onto Penix leg but what an unbelievable pick by Will...getting his hand underneath at the last second.
Think about the 3 receivers Will had to cover vs (OSU's MHJr), (Bama's Burton), & (UW Odunze)....Grant was unblockable too. All 3 are true sophomores.
January 10th, 2024 at 6:16 AM ^
Yeah, Will's INT "only" resulted in 3 points, but it was enormously high leverage because Washington had a chance to score on possessions on both sides of halftime. Mikey's was amazing too because it was THE game winner.
January 10th, 2024 at 12:26 PM ^
It was also 4th down, so even a batted down pass is a TO. Both amazing plays, though.
January 10th, 2024 at 6:21 AM ^
Will 5-stared his INT while I-cannot-by-law-say-anything-against-Sainristril, he did get thrown a light floppy pass right to him. I believe Mike also had one big bust in coverage (have to wait for UFR, it might have been on someone else).
In short it was a team win. The MVP is going to be erroneous no matter what. If it had been our entire D line for both offense and defensive MVP and I would just nod in agreement.
January 10th, 2024 at 8:04 AM ^
Im pretty sure the one you are talking about is actually on Moore, but I would need to see the all-22. It looked like everyone else was playing blanket coverage at the first down marker and Mikey was in his spot.
January 10th, 2024 at 10:25 AM ^
I believe you are correct.
January 10th, 2024 at 11:42 AM ^
Just watched it on the skycast and you are correct. And the sideline reaction removes any remaining doubt.
January 10th, 2024 at 10:32 AM ^
I look forward to the UFR to see who got beat for the two Odunze coverage busts that UW failed to capitalize on. Maybe it's just RPS, but both seemed like blown coverage IIRC.
January 10th, 2024 at 6:51 AM ^
and that interception was an incredible, but i am totally fine if the MVP went to Mikey.
January 10th, 2024 at 7:55 AM ^
That interception was unbelievable. Play of the game.
January 10th, 2024 at 11:40 AM ^
Minter MVCoach.
January 10th, 2024 at 8:21 AM ^
His pick was also incredible in his ability to gain control of the tipped ball before it hit the ground.
January 10th, 2024 at 10:22 AM ^
We're always told that corners are just WR's that can't catch. Perhaps Will took offence to that?
January 10th, 2024 at 11:40 AM ^
And he was left out on an island quite a few times in this game too.
January 10th, 2024 at 2:43 AM ^
It maybe that the selectors were influenced by timing of the Will Johnson interception - flipped the momentum, and killed off the first posseion of the Huskies in the 2nd half.
Sainristil played a great game and had an amazing season. I was at the game and was mildly surprised by the selection, but I don't think any of the players worried about it.
The whole offensive team including Blake were so happy to see Donovan hit those big runs. Once the gaps and seams became tighter, Corum with his darting style was a better choice for most of the carries. And up close (anything inside the 10) he was nearly a sure score.
January 10th, 2024 at 9:57 AM ^
The interesting thing about Will Johnson this game was that he WASN’T just attached to Odunze’s hip: he was wherever Michigan thought the formation was going with the ball. Minter took a HUGE risk (and a huge vote of confidence in the other DBs) by rotating Johnson around. Amazing performance by Johnson.
And while I’m as happy as anyone for Edwards’ success, I feel obligated to point out that on his first TD run, he ignored the gaping running lane, ran straight into the nearest defender, and then was able to bounce. He’s still not seeing/thinking properly and I hope that gets fixed this offseason. Corum deserved the MVP easily
January 10th, 2024 at 10:26 AM ^
Yeah, Don literally bounced off Keegan's butt before looking around and seeing that hole. His second TD was a little better, he still saw the hole late but didn't run into anyone.
While I hope he comes back, I want him to open up to becoming a slot receiver more so than a RB. He just doesn't have the instinctual vision of a top end RB. But boy oh boy would he stand out as a slot ninja!
January 10th, 2024 at 10:41 AM ^
I'm about to date myself, but that first TD run reminded me of Electric Football. Ball carrier runs into the back of a pile, bounces off it a couple of times without being touched by a defender, everyone aimlessly vibrates for a bit and then the pile tilts to one side and the ball carrier veers off in the other direction.
January 10th, 2024 at 11:23 AM ^
This motherfucker had an unorthodox throwing motion but he could fling that ball 150 yards when the mood struck him.
January 10th, 2024 at 2:43 AM ^
Will won it because he was locking down one of the best receivers in the country.
January 10th, 2024 at 2:54 AM ^
They got it right on both accounts. Mikey got cooked a few times, and I think he was mainly responsible for the bust that led to the big play. And his pick came at a point where the game already felt decided. Will’s big play shifted momentum back to us at a crucial moment.
On offense - I think Blake gets the nod as a function of his efforts to make the most out of his line’s blocking. He MADE plays. On the other horse, Edwards’ TDs felt more like happy accidents that occurred on extremely well-blocked plays.
January 10th, 2024 at 6:21 AM ^
The game didn't feel decided going into that 4th and 13. Washington's big play reminded everyone how fast they could potentially put up points, and they were in position to make it a 1 possession game with 4+ minutes left. Mikey absolutely slammed the door.
January 10th, 2024 at 8:06 AM ^
Oh full agree. I'd still argue Will's was higher leverage, but regardless, both awesome plays. What a joy to get to debate between multiple players/units for MVP
January 10th, 2024 at 9:59 AM ^
Except that it was 4th and 13 and was thrown to nobody on Washington. If he doesn't make the INT, the game is still over as Michigan gets the ball back.
Will Johnson shut down an NFL receiver, so probably had the more impressive game of what doesn't get shown AND had the play of the game defensively. It was the first play of the 2nd half where Michigan quite honestly had given up all of its momentum in the 2nd quarter by then. They both had great games, and Michigan may have needed both of them to win, but I think WJ's play was correctly identified.
January 10th, 2024 at 10:02 AM ^
Ha, you beat me by a minute!
January 10th, 2024 at 10:00 AM ^
That’s true, but it was 4th down, so an incompletion also would have sealed the game. If Mike didn’t exist on that play, the ball would have fallen to the ground (or possibly into Josh Wallace’s hands). It’s not as if Mike jumped in front of the receiver and prevented a completion. Still a fun play, but Will’s play had a much higher degree of difficulty and was more timely/impactful.
January 10th, 2024 at 7:18 AM ^
Agree about Will's interception being a momentum changer. It was like many of Charles Woodson's biggest plays - at a crucial time of the game that shifts the advantage to Michigan.
January 10th, 2024 at 8:50 AM ^
As far as I remember that bust looked more on the playside safety, who went into a 1-high look when it should've been 2-high. I thought Mike had the flat / intermediate zone
January 10th, 2024 at 3:04 AM ^
The DL won that game. It's the same reason that Clemson, Alabama, or Georgia won those championships. Most important position in football. The offensive playcalling was a B after being an A + vs. Alabama and it didn't matter because Penix was being hit every play.
January 10th, 2024 at 7:28 AM ^
That and the fact that just the 4 DTs were able to slow down and nearly stop one of this year’s most prolific passers without having to rely on blitzing.
January 10th, 2024 at 10:03 AM ^
I don’t know if anyone has talked about it yet, but Penix has the fastest release I’ve ever seen. How much of a factor is that when talking about his OL’s amazing pass blocking?
OR was he getting the ball out so quickly because Michigan’s defense is that good at getting to the QB?
(either way, I really love that Kalen Deboer has designed a big-play explosive offense that doesn’t rely on slow-developing pass plays. Michigan should adopt approximately 75% of Washington’s pass plays for next year.)
January 10th, 2024 at 10:18 AM ^
He does have a very nice, quick release. And his line was awesome at pass blocking throughout the year. But as many pointed out before, Michigan’s DL was leagues ahead of everyone they’d played this year. That much was clear even before Graham and Grant spent all evening staking their claim to the top of next year’s All-American watch list.
January 10th, 2024 at 10:38 AM ^
Quickest ever? He's definitely up there, but watch some film of this guy, Dan Marino, and how the ball left his hand like a slingshot.
January 10th, 2024 at 11:02 AM ^
Michigan's offense is based on the run game, and 75% of their pass plays incorporate that the defense needs to honor that. Additionally, those quick releases are nearly all arm and typically that means that if there is the slightest disruption going on with that release, the accuracy suffers in incredible ways. The more traditional throwing motion that involves the legs is going to typically give you more accuracy throw after throw and game after game. Marino is the only QB I can think of that really didn't have those accuracy issues with that type of motion.
January 10th, 2024 at 3:43 AM ^
Mikey got the penalty that led to their touchdown. And he looked to be caught in the middle of changing a coverage or something when the snap caught him off guard and led to the biggest gain of the night. Obviously the interception was huge, and he clung to people like a cat when he was making open field tackles. He played great, but I think Will was a fine choice. It was one of those games where half the defense was deserving. Somebody had to win it.
January 10th, 2024 at 3:59 AM ^
Mikey should have gotten it but clearly I’m in the minority so far. Both Mikey and Will had penalties to save touchdowns. Both had key interceptions, neither was garbage time. The difference is not only did Mikey have twice the tackles, he just seemed to be involved in more key stops. Especially the won on 3rd down where he had zero help and had to hold on for dear life. I’d love to see what the UFR says if we have one.
January 10th, 2024 at 4:58 AM ^
They had different assignments though. Johnson's job was to lock down Odunze, that's why he wasn't getting in on more tackles.
Sainristil played amazing though, but there's a reason Johnson was assigned to their #1 receiver.
January 10th, 2024 at 9:43 AM ^
I’m with you….he had a couple 3rd down solo tackles that were just huge in the game…
.on the other hand, you could argue Johnson’s int was at a more important time in the game even though he didn’t have the great return
So many great players to chose from….I’d through Mason in the mix too
both the INTs were the result of our d line
January 10th, 2024 at 9:51 AM ^
My assumption has always been that the best CBs shouldn't have many tackles. Those are a sign that your cover got the ball.
If prime Charles Woodson was on that field, he would have no tackles in coverage because nobody would dare throw his way.
January 10th, 2024 at 4:30 AM ^
Sure. I would bet the players don't care at all. Honestly the entire defense deserved the MVP if you wanted to get technical. What a legendary team and legendary run.
January 10th, 2024 at 5:21 AM ^
I love when National Champion Michigan has first world problems. Go Blue!
January 10th, 2024 at 6:03 AM ^
My son pointed out that JJ & Mikey win the Rose Bowl awards so maybe they didn’t want to give the same player another award if it was close. He was adamant Corum should have been Rose Bowl MVP. Just a theory.