blue in dc

January 8th, 2023 at 12:05 PM ^

Would be interested if you are basing your opinion on this quote from Balas or something more specific?

 “Well, the NCAA reportedly found a receipt for those burgers and asked Harbaugh about the paper trail. He, according to Balas, “wasn’t completely honest about” it.”

Not being completely honest could be a lot of things to a lot of people:

”Can you tell me who was with you every time you’ve had a hamburger?”

”We already acknowledged that we improperly talked to two recruits, I’m not gonna waste my time parsing fucking $30 restaurant receipts”

”I have never, ever provided one penny worth of impermissible benefits to any recruit”

I’m gonna guess it was closer to the first two than the third.  If it was, I don’t think it is cult like to suggest that the level one violation is bullshit and tgat everyone of us has done something analagoys to that at some point.

Joined: 01/22/2011

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rice4114

January 8th, 2023 at 12:26 PM ^

We are the Eeyore of fanbases. 
“Oh well coach lied to the NCAA about a cheeseburger he should probably go to the NFL now”

Are you kidding me? First of all is somebody investing every SEC team over this trivial shit? 
If the NCAA ran off Nick Saban that fan base would burn it down! And in this, and only this instance I wish we were more like them. 

Stretching? Hamburgers? Are you kidding me. Fucking Eeyores. Stand up for your coach people! 

Joined: 08/26/2010

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XM - Mt 1822

January 8th, 2023 at 7:12 AM ^

not great.  besides possibly losing harbaugh i'll need to start a 'go fund me' to pay off mgrowold.  

kidding aside, i am certain this is brought on by the ridiculous NCAA claim that harbuaugh paid a $10 tip for some burgers that were comp'd at the jug.  if that is in fact the true state of affairs, it is beyond pathetic.

meanwhile, you can be recorded paying tens of thousands to recruits long before it was permissible and you don't get a hand slap, a time out, or even a stern email.   unbelievable. 

Joined: 12/21/2011

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JonnyHintz

January 8th, 2023 at 8:12 AM ^

he’s never stayed in one place very long
 

I’ve always despised this argument. Every job he has left, has been for a promotion with the exception of leaving the 49ers for UM, which was the decision of the 49ers management. Not Jim. 
 

Theres not a person on this blog that wouldn’t leave a job after 3-4 years for a significantly better one with a significant pay raise on top of it. Not to mention, he’s been here for 8 years now. 

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bronxblue

January 8th, 2023 at 8:30 AM ^

Nick Saban had stints of 1, 5, 5, and 2 before his run at Alabama, compared to Harbaugh's 3, 4, 4, and 4 before his run now at UM.  All of them were upgrades in positions, which is what you want out of competitive guys who aren't, I don't know, Kirk Ferentz or Pat Fitzgerald. 

This idea that Harbaugh is some carpetbagger is one of the many dumb ideas that sticks around this blog because people like to complain.  He might leave but given this shan NCAA investigation going on I'm not shocked he's keeping his options open. 

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Autostocks

January 8th, 2023 at 7:18 AM ^

So he basically lied to Warde last year when he told him the Vikings dalliance was a one-time deal and wouldn't be an annual event? Tired of this bullshit, if he can't keep his word then let him go.

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bronxblue

January 8th, 2023 at 8:47 AM ^

Yeah, Warde and UM not realizing the guy who took them to two straight conference titles and the playoffs should probably be paid more than fucking James Franklin and Mel Tucker is as big a problem.  And the fact this NCAA sham investigation has kicked around and contains a Level I violations charge does matter to this whole thing.  Harbaugh's contract likely has the option for UM to fire him for that type of violation, so him saying "there's a future where I don't coach here" is him also being aware that he could get fired for it.

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1VaBlue1

January 8th, 2023 at 9:22 AM ^

There is no way in the history of hell that Jim Harbaugh gets fired from Michigan for buying a cheeseburger.  That's just a foolish thing to say, even if technically true.  And you know better than to even say it!

After the 2020 season, when Warde had every reason in the world to do it, I really don't think he had the wherewithal to actually pull it off.  The Regents would have fought back, and Warde Manuel isn't going against his bosses.  There is no friggen' way he could do it now, after 2 dominations of OSU and blowouts in the B1G CG and playoff appearances.

If Jim leaves, its because he wants to.

And also you're right that Warde should be out in front of this with a contract that matches performance over the last two years - whether Jim wants the money, or not.  He is a different man - and coach - than he was in 2020, and he's earned it.  I do think, though, that Jim would appreciate public support from the AD against these bullshit NCAA allegations.  But that is a thing that Warde won't do - as demonstrated over the years.

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MaizeBlueA2

January 8th, 2023 at 9:24 AM ^

Sigh, a "few" major points here.

1. You have no idea what Warde does or doesn't realize. Warde Manuel doesn't have the power to offer $10M+ to a state employee/head football coach (who is currently under *a bullshit* investigation) by himself. Just like Warde can't hire a head football coach at a state school, and give that person millions of dollars by himself.

2. Harbaugh has earned a big time contract, but it has NOTHING to do with Mel Tucker or Frames Janklin. People have to stop with this comparative stuff. One team's bad investment doesn't set the bar or industry standard. 

MSU felt overpaying Tucker was the best thing to do for their shitty program. That has absolutely nothing to do with Michigan. Just like the Browns just gave a fully guaranteed contract to a guy who hasn't played football in like 2 years and has 20+ women accusing him of various crimes.

Lamar Jackson is learning, just because the Browns are stupid and desperate doesn't mean that's the new standard for QBs in the NFL. It's simply not how the world works.

So has Harbaugh done enough to earn 10 years* at $10M/year? Yes. But not because Mel frickin Tucker got a contract. If that's the bar, Harbaugh should have $20M/year and Saban and Smart should be pushing $30M/year.

3. Correct on the investigation. It comes at the absolute worst time. Because Michigan is image conscious. And the Regents or whoever else has to sign off on a huge contract are absolutely going to think about "what it looks like" when it comes to giving a football coach under investigation $10M/year. If this was an SEC school, or say Liberty University...it would've been done a week ago.

This is where someone on Michigan's side needs to do something publicly. But you can't wait for the NCAA - they're still investigating shit from 10 years ago. It's also not going to change anything...even if Harbaugh is found "not guilty" (for lack of a better term). Those who want to say, "but you gave a guy $10M who was under NCAA investigation!" - they're still going to say it. Stop trying to appease those people.

Also, I could be wrong, but I thought Harbaugh's contract is public, so you can't sneak language in there that protects him (and makes him comfortable signing it) without the public knowing. I doubt he's going to want to sign any contract the Michigan "brass" would feel comfortable offering him right now. Even if it included $10M/year.

Ideally, tomorrow Michigan would announce a new 10 year* $100M deal for Harbaugh, complete with incentives. And there would be a piece in there about if he is found to have a Level 1 violation that his contract is subject to review by (x board/committee/etc.) - but leaving out any language about it being voided. Which wouldn't actually mean anything other than look to the public like it could be voided.

Hopefully this would quiet the peanut gallery (even a little) while also giving Harbaugh confidence that if someone comes from this NCAA thing...he's not out in the cold.

*I don't actually think he'd complete a 10-year deal, they're more ceremonial than anything and do not "marry" the two parties that long. It's more for show.

 

Enough words. Time for breakfast. 

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bronxblue

January 8th, 2023 at 10:40 AM ^

1. You have no idea what Warde does or doesn't realize. Warde Manuel doesn't have the power to offer $10M+ to a state employee/head football coach (who is currently under *a bullshit* investigation) by himself. Just like Warde can't hire a head football coach at a state school, and give that person millions of dollars by himself.

First off, I use UM and Warde in many of these instances colloquially.  In most situations they're the same person in terms of negotiations.

I think Warde has gotten a bad rap around here for some things but this is the same guy who tried to retain Mel Pearson despite multiple people up the flag pole at UM wanting him not to.  By a number of accounts he had to be told by the president of the school to not retain him, and he was the lone voice crying out for him even then.  So yeah, while I don't know what Warde and the current administration knows there's a non-zero chance that Warde thought offering Harbaugh a pay bump to the #4 spot in his division was enough and didn't realize that a guy who then went out and had an objectively better season the following year AND who hired an agent might want to get that bumped up again.  

Also, they don't need to offer him $10M; getting him to $8.5/$9M would probably do it, as would expanding the assistant pool, changing certain processes in the AD/larger UM community, etc.  Those changes don't necessarily get included in a single employment contract.

2. Harbaugh has earned a big time contract, but it has NOTHING to do with Mel Tucker or Frames Janklin. People have to stop with this comparative stuff. One team's bad investment doesn't set the bar or industry standard. 

But bad investments do change the market.  Texas A&M dramatically overpaid for Jimbo Fisher and then kept pumping money into their "recruiting" system...and that spurred on Texas to put in millions more into their apparatus and for both Kirby Smart and Nick Saban to get raises.  The market is absolutely set by what participants in the market do.  The value of my house jumped $300k in 12 months not because I did a think to it; it's because a bunch of houses around me started to sell for way more when interest rates were at historical lows.  The prices around me have now gone down (and so has the projected value of my own home) again due to nothing I did but because the larger market went down + rates went up.  So when Mel Tucker gets a huge contract that pushes everyone else up.

Lamar Jackson is probably going to get paid and the fact that Watson got paid stupid money is absolutely resetting the market; Jackson will get paid more than originally planned because of this reset.

I agree that the UM brass need to just give him the raise and not worry about the backlash.  Right now the information about why he's being investigated is so hilariously pro Harbaugh that the NCAA is going to look even worse the deeper they push this.  So let the MSU/OSU slappies talk and just get him signed.

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Derek

January 8th, 2023 at 12:53 PM ^

Lamar Jackson is probably going to get paid and the fact that Watson got paid stupid money is absolutely resetting the market; Jackson will get paid more than originally planned because of this reset.

Watson's contract is stupid because it's fully guaranteed. Lamar Jackson could sign a deal worth more today, but he's held out for the stupid bit. He's not getting that bit until/unless he manages to play consecutive full seasons.

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jerseyblue

January 8th, 2023 at 10:08 AM ^

Yeah. Even if someone who backed Harbaugh on the word play of how it's different because last year he sought out a job and that's not the same as picking up the phone when teams call. Which is bull because the damage to Michigan recruiting is the same. Although i guess people like Sam Webb and Brice Marich have to carry that water because they need that access in case he stays. But even if you are so team Harbs that you buy that bull how do you explain then the cbs sports report this morning that Harbaugh is the one who initiated the conversation with Carolina ownership? The man has the right to leave. That's not the point. The point is he gave his word that the there would be no more NFL distractions after last year and he couldn't even keep that promise for one coaching cycle. He has to leave now for the sake of the program. He's not all in. Um is just a safety net at this point.

Joined: 12/20/2008

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Frank Chuck

January 8th, 2023 at 7:31 AM ^

I don't care for Sam Webb but how do we know Jonathan Jones is telling the truth?

Do you think the Panthers would readily and publicly admit "Yeah, Jim Harbaugh - one of the most successful coaches in NFL history - turned us down."

What message does that sound about the Panthers? Makes it seem undesirable, no? The Panthers have no franchise QB right now.

-----

I'm reminded of when NFL reporters (like Ian Rapoport) were adamant that the "Raiders were still in play for Harbaugh" when people inside Schembechler Hall knew Harbaugh to Michigan was a done deal.

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Jkidd49

January 8th, 2023 at 8:27 AM ^

I can't come up with a reason why this NFL reporter would make the story up and the Panthers could say nothing or they could say we're doing our due diligence with as many candidates as possible.

JhlH wanting out of the NCAA or wanting more $ both seem like much simpler answers as does Sam continuing his habit of being a mouthpiece for what the program wants people to hear. 

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bronxblue

January 8th, 2023 at 9:17 AM ^

I agree Sam is a mouthpiece for the program but that doesn't preclude others from doing the same for their interests.

By all contemporaneous accounts the Panthers and Tepper were interested in Harbaugh - they'd just bombed on a 3-year run with Matt Rhule seemingly trying to pull the Harbaugh-to-NFL route (took over a cratered team and turned it into a big winner in a couple of years at Baylor) and it's logical they might want to go after the actual architect of that type of turnaround.  

Also, Jones was the guy who wrote up an article pushing the NFL's "we definitely didn't say the Bills-Bengals game should restart" story even when other outlets have been pretty adamant that they got that information from the NFL.  So yeah, he may just be a "Sam" for the NFL and his reporting is no more or less credible/biased.

People need to remember that the NFL doesn't give a shit about the NCAA except as a free advertising source for their product and a farm system to feed their ranks.  The owners of these teams are billionaires who, more often than not, are maniacal assholes who are used to bullying anyone and everyone they meet without a care in the world.  So yeah, I'm sure these owners are talking to Harbaugh in vague terms, much like he is with them.  But they aren't talking to him out of charity or because they want to get him a raise - they're doing it because their billion-dollar investments currently suck and they hate losing and Harbaugh has shown he can fix bad programs.

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blue in dc

January 8th, 2023 at 10:03 AM ^

If you can’t come up with reasons, you don’t have much imagination:

1. What if the Panthers reached out to Harbaugh and he had no interest?

2. What about someone in the organization who is pushing for another hire?

3. What about someone who wants to make Jim look bad, or wants to sell the narrative that Harbaugh wants to leave Michigan?

While sometimes “sources” are right, often they are wrong.

Joined: 01/22/2011

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blue in dc

January 8th, 2023 at 2:05 PM ^

It is also entirely possible that:

1. Jim is fed up with things related to the NCAA and would consider the right NFL offer;

2. A story with un-named sources that claims that the only reason that an NFL owner was willing to talk to Jim Harbaugh was to stop him from begging to get his calls taken is either, clickbait bullshit or is based on those sources having other agendas and not being completely forthright; and

Thinking that un-named sources don’t always tell the truth or have other agendas is hardly a crazy conspiracy theory.

Joined: 01/22/2011

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bronxblue

January 8th, 2023 at 8:23 AM ^

Yeah, for some reason fans around here keep believing that every UM source is biased toward Michigan and any NFL report is the objective truth.  The earlier Carolina reporting, for example, was super gung ho about the owner meeting with him and what potential he had with the Panthers.  And if it really was Harbaugh chasing why would the owner of an NFL franchise talk to him?  They have a GM who I'm sure could have taken that call as well.

And given how the NFL has been caught lying a lot this week about way more serious matters the fact their media lackies might be lying here isn't some huge shock.

If Harbaugh leaves so be it but if the NFL really wasn't interested his name wouldn't constantly be floated out by NFL guys.  Also, the Broncos wouldn't be wasting their time talking to him if they weren't interested.  They have options.

Joined: 11/22/2008

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Ezekiels Creatures

January 8th, 2023 at 8:47 AM ^

Apparently the persistence was he wants complete control over the roster and Draft picks. And, apparently, Carolina isn't fully willing to let go of say in those things. When Jim Harbaugh was at the 49ers Trent Baalke was quite a thorn in his side in roster moves and Draft picks. One good example was Illinois WR AJ Jenkins being taken in the 1st Round of the 2012 Draft. I'm in the San Fran area. And no one could figure out why he was taken so early in the Draft. He clearly wasn't a 1st Round talent. Anyone I talked to about it said they couldn't figure out why Harbaugh would pick him in the 1st Round. But then it came out Baalke made the pick. Friction with Baalke was the reason Harbaugh left the 49ers---at least that's what was prevalent rumor here. Harbaugh probably never wants to have that same problem again. I don't blame him.

Joined: 03/14/2019

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1VaBlue1

January 8th, 2023 at 9:31 AM ^

What you write is true, but I have an issue with the wording here: "Friction with Baalke was the reason Harbaugh left the 49ers..."

The only reason Harbaugh left the 49ers is because Baalke fired him.  Don't word it any other way than that.

Joined: 01/31/2016

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Ezekiels Creatures

January 8th, 2023 at 10:38 AM ^

Can you put a link here to where you read that?

The wording on how it all happened has never been clear on either side of the issue. Even the way Jim Harbaugh worded it was not clear. He made it sound like he was let go, but he could have stayed if he wanted to. You know how Jim Harbaugh words things. The owner of the team said it was a "mutual" parting. Harbaugh did stay for 2 weeks to finish the season after he was "fired" though. It sounds like he was given an option, and if he didn't want the option they were going to part ways, i.e., he would be "fired".

But if you have a link to something that has definite wording I want to read it.

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