Blatant Pile-Drive Hits on Michigan QBs Going Uncalled This Season
November 19th, 2017 at 9:04 PM ^
I think the answer is obvious: don't play Wisconsin anymore. Last year they took out a RT with a longterm injury who that we badly could've used this year. This time they took out a QB. Hopefully whatever injury Peters sustained doesn't have long-term repercussions as it has for Newsome.
The hit on Newsome seemed a lot dirtier than this one. As I recall that wasn't called either.
November 19th, 2017 at 12:05 PM ^
November 19th, 2017 at 12:13 PM ^
November 19th, 2017 at 1:28 PM ^
Uh, Speight had already been tackled and was on the ground when the second Purdue defender dove onto his neck and head. The no-call was absolutely ridiculous. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOzOok9KnmM
November 19th, 2017 at 12:07 PM ^
November 19th, 2017 at 12:12 PM ^
Now, with that being said...the ball was gone. Was it late? Is that the complaint? Not sure on the rules there.
IMO...this is just part of football. You can only filter the aggression and violence out so much. It’s part of the game. It’s inevitable.
November 19th, 2017 at 12:16 PM ^
He’s a pretty athletic kid. I hope he can help himself out a bit and develop a better feel for the pocket. Between that and improved pass pro...o feel like the sky is the limit with him.
I think between he and mcaffery we should have ourselves quite the duo.
November 19th, 2017 at 12:19 PM ^
The good news is that Peters trusts the pocket. For now, it can lead to some huge sacks. This will hopefully pay off as the OL improves. Watching O'Korn scramble out of a stable pocket before running into a linebacker for a one yard loss is maddening.
November 19th, 2017 at 9:08 PM ^
Before his injury Speight didn't seem that comfortable either this year. It really seems like the older guys perceive something (real or not) that Peters hasn't. But after yesterday I'd be surprised if Peters put as much trust in his protections as he had before.
November 19th, 2017 at 12:12 PM ^
November 19th, 2017 at 12:19 PM ^
November 19th, 2017 at 12:53 PM ^
November 19th, 2017 at 1:03 PM ^
when one guy tried The People's Elbow, but it took him way too long to go from one sideline to the other. By the the QB was already back up and in the huddle for the next play.
November 19th, 2017 at 1:16 PM ^
November 19th, 2017 at 1:25 PM ^
some vicious hits on both sides. But don't ever think in the course of a game that the other team isn't interested in sending a physical message and even taking a guy out. I have no problem with the initial hit on that play, but that's not what the OP is talking about. It's the push down of the helmet twice after he's landed on Peters and driven him down. The foul is the residual stuff on the ground. Now, very often as yesterday, that rarely gets called.
But here's the thing, there are two officials back there in the backfield, the white hat crew leader and the center official. The center is there to assist on any number of line calls and the referee is there after the play starts to watch what happens post snap to the quarterback.
As others have pointed out, the most egregious non-call of a qb hit came in the MSU game when you absolutely must know as an official what the game willl bring in terms of physicality and emotion. And O'Korn was absolutely pummelled after letting go of the ball. The call was almost as bad as the non-call on Weber in the OSU game in Columbus last year.
Here's the way I think the mentaility of the officiating goes: You fail to block an oncoming defender who creams your qb in the pocket, you get what you deserve. This is a game of hard knocks, and unless the call approaches a late hit or targeting on the qb, forget about it. You don't get the call. When your team fails to protect their guy, it's pretty hard for the zebra to punish the defense for not taking it easy on him.
I am telling you that officials want to get blatant stuff and look for subtle stuff. We got called on subtle PI calls yesterday whereas on plays where there is obvious handfighting and contact between receiver and defender, you get no calls. This is just the way officials think about calls. A blatant call is a must, a subtle call is about flaggng someone trying to cheat.
November 19th, 2017 at 12:42 PM ^
I've said this for years, and for some reason people on here disagree.
Michigan hasn't been nasty for a while, and while I don't particularly think it's necessary, we've been outnastied by MSU, OSU, and more for nearly a decade.
MSU players, O-Line especially, all continue through their blocks for 4 OR 5 SECONDS after the whistle. We're constantly getting shoved around post whistle. It will never get a flag either because it's post-play and refs avoid influencing the game for something as inconsequential to the actual play on the field. But, for the players, that is incredibly important psychological factor. The "who wants it more", "who's UP", etc.
Body language is huge. And Michigan has been lacking it for a long, long time.
Think in 2016 when De'Veon Smith specifically chose to lower the shoulder instead of just jumpign over, trucking the MSU LB at the goalline, and Jake Butt got right in his face and taunted him (within legal levels) as they celebrated the TD?
2016, we definitely had a little bit of that swagger. And of course it's debateable how much of it is causal versus result, but let's be honest, MSU and similar teams have it, even when they're 3-9, so it's not just for CFP teams only.
I really do think that Harbaugh has already brought in those types of players, and they're extremely young so, it has only come out in fits and spurts.
But, we desperately need to get back to that.
November 19th, 2017 at 12:54 PM ^
November 19th, 2017 at 12:16 PM ^
Still think the helmet shot on Speight's back of kneck when he was already on his keester should have been an ejection. Felt like the hit on Peters after he threw the ball was pretty hard as he was driven to the ground, but it was more of a bang bang play and its tough to penalize "intent" in that bang, bang context.
November 19th, 2017 at 12:22 PM ^
November 19th, 2017 at 12:23 PM ^
November 19th, 2017 at 12:23 PM ^
November 19th, 2017 at 12:30 PM ^
November 19th, 2017 at 12:48 PM ^
November 19th, 2017 at 12:32 PM ^
you can say its just football but that type of thinking like the sport isnt going to be here for the long haul. we'll be lucky if this sport looks anywhere near the same in 20 years
November 19th, 2017 at 1:45 PM ^
November 19th, 2017 at 12:26 PM ^
November 19th, 2017 at 12:28 PM ^
On queue as I posted a similar response.
+1
November 19th, 2017 at 1:02 PM ^
Our D dishes it out, no question.
Results are a little different though.
I'm not getting the reason for the extra "lift and shove" after the fact. How is that a part of normal play?
Edit: This is not to disagree with people saying the pass blocking is a problem. I wouldn't even know about the aforementioned extra lift and shove before reading about it in the game summary comments last night... so I'm wondering about it now. I can understand a player not being able to change momentum in mid-tackle.
November 19th, 2017 at 1:07 PM ^
Even yesterday AFTER the hit on Peters, one of our guys had Hornibrook dead to rights in an almost identical situation and knocked him down but without any extra force, backed out as saw ball released. I have no problem with Peters being knocked down, but I do have a problem with the lift and slam well after the ball is away.
November 19th, 2017 at 2:02 PM ^
November 19th, 2017 at 12:27 PM ^
November 19th, 2017 at 12:27 PM ^
Hot take alert ... you realize the rest of the B1G think that Hurst and Bush are dirty players and post animated gifs of their "dirty plays" as well?
Everyone wants their own team protected and think the other team plays dirty when it involves one of their own. We aren't exempt.
November 19th, 2017 at 12:33 PM ^
November 19th, 2017 at 12:44 PM ^
I do think Bush is a bit dangerous of a player, BUT a lot of people don't understand targeting rules these days. Not all helmet-to-helmet contact is targeting. The biggest place where I see people misunderstanding the rule is when an unprotected ball carrier is running down the field and there's contact to the head/neck area. It's not a penalty unless the defender leads with the crown of his helmet.
November 19th, 2017 at 2:33 PM ^
https://twitter.com/DavidHarns/status/916853633085472769
This is the one that upset MSU . Would this qualify as targeting by the rules? It can definitely be a little confusing as players that seemingly have done substantially less have gotten kicked out. It just seems way more confusing than it should be.
November 19th, 2017 at 12:55 PM ^
Yea and no.
Bush has definitely targeted to the head on plays.
But literally no more than any other player on the field.
The difference?
Bush is a Ferrari, and the other guys are Fiestas.
When Bush goes helmet-to-helmet, you're f**ked.
When other players do it, way less meaningful.
Go watch any given play at the college level, nearly every single player is hitting helmet to helmet.
The only reason you notice Bush more, is because he's going helmet-to-helmet with the ball carrier. You only notice him, because the lesser LBers are going helmet-to-helmet with blockers. And by the time they actually get to the tackling, it's helmet-to-waist.
Bush has NFL speed and is 30lbs heavier than Peppers. Watch the tape, I think he actually moves better than Peppers does.
A slower LB can only hip tackle. Bush is so fast he can get to players while still upright and enjoys the bigger hit you can get from that, and on blocks he still shocks the opposing blocker by just how fast he gets to the point of attack and makes them pay.
Bush is just so much faster than a most of the competition.
The difference is he's Tyson, and they're whoever Tyson knocks out.
But they're both out there throwing the same punches.
November 19th, 2017 at 12:28 PM ^
if targetting is a penalty then driving a defenselss QB's head and neck into the turft should be too. how many injuries every year come from this type of play? seems like a lot. the NCAA and Big Ten talk a big players safety game
November 19th, 2017 at 12:31 PM ^
Michigan's defense does this to opposing quarterbacks. All. The. Time.
November 19th, 2017 at 12:33 PM ^
doesnt make it right
November 19th, 2017 at 12:43 PM ^
November 19th, 2017 at 12:53 PM ^
We sack them.
Have we concussed them or broken their vertebrae when already defenseless?
November 19th, 2017 at 9:17 PM ^
Hmmm, I can't recall a hit this year that sent an opposing QB to the hospital immediately afterward. Did I miss one?
November 19th, 2017 at 12:42 PM ^
The Peters hit was fine. I was originally a bit skeptical because of the extra shoving at the end, but on replay it was a clean tackle that just took Peters out. The fact Hurst was called for a penalty on a similar hit some time ago is more an indictment of shitty refs than the violence of the tackle.
Yes, Speight's hit was dirty and should be treated as such. But it's football, and guys get hurt. What Michigan really needs to do is get better at blocking so 300lb guys don't get free runs at their QBs.
November 19th, 2017 at 1:11 PM ^
I agree it looks like something else than clean. Wisconsin player had him wrapped around the waist and they fall. Badger's head was down at torso level but as they fall, head comes up and he uses one leg and arm as extra leverage as he gives Peters the extra shove.
It may be just part of football as people are saying here, but that absolutely sucks. I can't do anything about it. Going outside to do some yard work.
November 19th, 2017 at 12:49 PM ^
November 19th, 2017 at 3:57 PM ^
Ok, the Peters thing... Wasn't clean, but it happens...
Speights hit was "a bit late but not horrible?" I really don't even know what to say...
He was sitting down and a guy jumped on his neck and head bending him in half.
Glad MSU's hit qualifies in your world... Enjoy O'korns torture porn next week.
November 19th, 2017 at 4:45 PM ^
November 19th, 2017 at 1:07 PM ^
The Peters hit may have been legal but it was also pretty dirty. The guy knew the ball was long gone and gave him an extra drive into the turf. Unfortunate.
That may been called a penalty in the NFL.
November 19th, 2017 at 3:32 PM ^
Man, this is intolerable. So, if you thought that was dirty, you are a pussy. Got it... Good luck O'korn! If someone gets to you next week expect a broken collarbone.
It is a common, but dirty, play in football. I got my collarbone broken the same way. I'm 1000% sure the guy that did it was trying to hurt me. Know why? He told me so.
BTW, this is a precedent. Expect more wrap-up, turn and drive injuries. I said it before, Dantonio probably has his guys taking Judo classes now.