OT: Does Sportsmanship Vary by Sport? (Basketball/Football/Hockey)

Submitted by LSA Aught One on February 11th, 2024 at 5:00 PM

I come to you today with three examples and would like your opinion on whether there is a variance on what is considered unsportsmanlike between Football, Basketball, and Hockey.

Case 1: 

It's NBA season and your team is up 30pts against an inferior opponent.  The backups are in, because it's garbage time.  There's 10 seconds left.  A veteran play that hasn't played much this season due to injuries has the ball. Instead of dribbling out the clock, he breaks for the basket and dunks.  The coach is furious and will give a lecture to this veteran player once the team is back in the locker room.  There is no penalty, but it is obvious that this was not necessary.

Case 2:

The New Orleans Saints vs. Atlanta Falcons game this fall where the team assumed Victory Formation only to run the ball in for a touchdown when the game was already out of reach.  Some people were fine with this play citing the idea of "If you do not want me to run up the score, stop me."  Others were furious that Jameis Winston took matters into his own hands and changed the play call.  

Case 3: 

Last night, the Ottawa Senators were leading the Toronto Maple Leafs 4-3 near the end of the 3rd period.  Ottawa's Ridly Greig chased the puck into the opponent's end and instead of gently guiding it into the net, as per usual with empty net goals, he decided to slap shot the puck into the net.  If this is where the case ended, I would say that it's on-par or even less egregious than the first two cases.  Toronto's Morgan Rielly proceeds to cross-check Greig to the back of the head, into the wall, no less.  There were only 5 or so seconds remaining in the game, so any penalty was meaningless.  

My question has four parts:

1. Is the main action (scoring flamboyantly when the game is already in-hand) equivalent between all three sports or is NFL worse because of the Victory Formation being a recognized sportsmanship custom?

2. Is the NHL custom of scoring gently on empty net goals equivalent to the Victory Formation?

3. If someone violates the sportsmanship custom, is it okay to retaliate?  It appears, so far, that Rielly is not facing a suspension for the obvious intent to injure play. 

4. Should the NFL/NBA handle the situations differently?

Comments

LSA Aught One

February 11th, 2024 at 5:19 PM ^

Of course, right after I posted this, ESPN announced that Rielly has been given the option of an in-person hearing.  This signals an extended suspension is likely coming.  Alas, the other questions still are still germane.

 

1WhoStayed

February 11th, 2024 at 5:20 PM ^

1 - NFL is worse. If a defender goes all out and crashed into the offense while in victory formation everyone would react big time. Plus I can’t stand that crab stealing mudder fucker!

2 - Nope. There was no surrender offered.

3 - No. Rules are rules for a reason. Hockey played could have been seriously injured.

4 - Nothing to handle. Karma is a bitch. And opponents embarrassed have a long memory!

NittanyFan

February 11th, 2024 at 6:41 PM ^

Hockey ---- even though an empty-net goal is arguably "running up the score", hockey players never turn down the chance to score them.  That's part of the hockey culture.

So who the hell cares as to HOW they score into an empty-net???  Yeesh.  Either way, it's a goal, and arguably doing a slap shot runs a greater risk of him missing.  And what if he only took a HALF slap-shot?  Where does that rank among these unwritten rules? 

Anyway, what I guess I'm saying: Cases #1 and #3 are fine.  Part of the game.  Case #2 is different IMO, given it is actively involving deception, setting up for one thing and doing another.

Blinkin

February 12th, 2024 at 10:40 AM ^

Yes, and in the example cited, it turned a 1 goal game into a 2 goal game.  The win was absolutely not assured when it was only a 1 goal differntial and the losting team had an extra player in on offense.  

Maybe a 3rd or 4th empty netter would be running up the score?  But certainly not one that only allows the winning team to go up by 2.  

BlueNorthStron…

February 12th, 2024 at 9:53 AM ^

I don't think anyone is suggesting the retaliation by Rielly was for scoring vs. not scoring.  The examples aren't equivalent from the other sports because this has nothing to do with running up the score as others have pointed out.  You only pull the goalie because there's a chance you can still tie it up. 

A similar example would be an unwritten baseball rule like staring down the pitcher after a big hit or taking too long to round the bases.  Lots of times it is clearly just due to the opponent's anger in the moment and a (sometimes) slight 'violation' of unwritten rule.

Guys score on slapshots in empty nets all the time - but not when you're basically at the crease and there's no one around even trying to stop you.  Rielly even let up and conceded the goal (not that he had much of chance).  You do everything you can to score in those situations but taking a clapper there was a bit of an 'F you'.

To be clear, I don't agree with what Rielly did and agree that he should (and will be) suspended.  I just understand why he did it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QW1pqSHmMzY

 

BlueTimesTwo

February 14th, 2024 at 1:18 PM ^

The traditional in-game response in hockey is to "get their number" so you or a teammate can dish out a good, hard, clean hit the next time you get a chance.  A cross-check to the head is not a legit hockey play and is a garbage move.  If you don't like the ENG, then play better early on.

And if it is the very end of the game and you can't get a number, trying to instigate a fight or roughing the guy up a bit is more legit than the cross-check.  Stick-work like that is soft, and I am guessing he will have a target on him when he comes back from suspension.

XM - Mt 1822

February 11th, 2024 at 7:34 PM ^

football is the best sportsmanship, possibly better than hockey.  both sports have players genuinely embrace one another, bro-hug, etc. after big games and big series.  a guy gets hurt, both teams are attentive and respectful. 

hoops is the worst.  relatively speaking, no sportsmanship at all.  give a cheap shot, knock a guy down, never see them help the guy up.  walk away all puffed up.  plus, tend to slapfight like girls when they do fight.  

ca_prophet

February 11th, 2024 at 8:26 PM ^

I don’t care one way or another about 1; if the players agree it was egregious they’ll set up the offender for embarrassment later.

#2 is lecture-worthy because victory formation is an implicit agreement to end the game without further effort.  If they really wanted to get their guy the TD they should line up in a real play.

#3 is stupid and Reilly should get suspended.

drjaws

February 12th, 2024 at 1:27 AM ^

1. NFL is worse. V formation is a mutual understanding that the game is over 

2. No I played hockey for years and I didn’t see much of an issue. Kind of a dick move but not at all egregious. Slap shot into empty net is the equivalent to lightly jogging instead of running while heading into the endzone to seal the win

3. no. Reilly is a dick for doing that and I hope he gets 10 game suspension

4. nah 

TESOE

February 12th, 2024 at 2:07 AM ^

Yes. But even more by coach and locker room. Shorsey is the worst. But then, the women up in Sudbury are insanely hot. 

All joking aside this is a good question. Hazing is common in most male sports, as are practical jokes. Going for three is a time honored ambition. As are dong punches in the scrum. Some fanbases indulge it more than others. It is where the "...hang a hundred on them." comes from. Woody got his in the end.

All of the asshattery is avoidable by a good coaching staff. I don't know a single coach of men's sport who hasn't dealt with unsportsmanlike behavior at some point. This is probably changing as I'm an old man... kids these days.

UMQuadz05

February 12th, 2024 at 9:30 AM ^

One counterexample:  high level soccer.  Because of the running clock and season ending tie-breaker rules (total +/- in goals is very important), running up the score is encouraged in a few cases and at worst is shrugged off.  I don't know if it's better or worse than the Big 4 American sports but it's interesting to think about.

jdon

February 12th, 2024 at 9:46 AM ^

1. I found Winston's actions egregious the victory formation signifies that you are not going to try and move the ball forward.  Wait till next year, if he goes into victory formation, I hope he gets plowed.     Honestly, I could go on a Bill Burr level rant about the play but will just say:  you want the touchdown, earn it!   

2.  Not even close... and I will echo the idea that a slap shot is more likely to miss.   

3. I believe in retaliation.  I'm not a big fan of cross checks to the head.   Go over, fight the dude if you don't like it, but cheap shots aren't ok.

4. The NBA seems to do a good job of policing one another.  The NFL seems a little more fraught; I look at all the late hits on top of piles each week and wonder why they aren't called.  In fact, I would argue that the NFL is the only league that actively attempts to hurt their opponent.

 

ST3

February 12th, 2024 at 3:17 PM ^

I wish they would just let the scrubs play in a blowout. I don’t need to see walkon Bob dribble out the clock at half court. Maybe they could have a hand signal for the losing team that lets the other team know it’s OK to play basketball. Those guys practice hard all week and usually don’t get in the game. When they finally do, they have to stand in the corner for 30 seconds.

Sam1863

February 13th, 2024 at 8:52 AM ^

Agreed. It's one thing if your starters are jacking up threes when you're up by 20 with a minute to go. That shows no class. But if it's Bob, who never gets out of his warm-ups, let him get something on the stat sheet: a bucket, an assist, a rebound, whatever. Especially if you're at home.

Both teams have their own Bobs, so if the game reaches the point where both teams empty the end of their benches, then let them play. That's what they're on the team for.

snowcrash

February 12th, 2024 at 5:48 PM ^

I'll bite.

1. The NFL one is probably the worst, because there's no need to pull a fast one when the game is already over. The NBA one would be similar if the team with the ball had come out as if to just run out the game clock and then the player broke for the basket. The NHL one is the least bad, because the team with the puck is always expected to score in that situation.

2. No, because it's about how you score, not whether you score. It's more like just handing the ball to the official if you score a touchdown near the end of a blowout.

3. The appropriate retaliation is to do the same thing to the other team the next time the roles are reversed. Rielly was way out of line, and I hope he got some sort of sanction.

4. I don't think it's the league's place to do anything about this if that's what you meant. I think the NBA coach was right to speak to the player in the locker room.

Sambojangles

February 13th, 2024 at 8:27 AM ^

A slam dunk is fun as hell and hurts no one, so I think it's the least unsportsmanlike action of the three. Especially in the NBA, they are there to entertain the fans, so if you want to turn into the Harlem Globetrotters for the last ten seconds of a blowout, go for it. It should be allowed equally to home or away, and ahead or behind.

Violating the victory formation truce is not great. It was the end of the season and I get why they wanted to get a guy a TD. They should have just lined up and run a normal play.

The slapshot ENG was a little over the top and he deserved a bit of payback but Rielly overdid it. A chirp, shove, or fight in the rematch would have been more appropriate than the headshot and he will get a deserved suspension for that. 

Sam1863

February 13th, 2024 at 9:05 AM ^

"Truce" is a great way to describe the victory formation. It sends a clear message: "We're not going to try to gain yardage, so you don't have to try and stop us." It's the football equivalent of waving a white flag.

If you're going to try to score for whatever reason, that's up to you. But don't wave the flag. It's a dick move.

superstringer

February 14th, 2024 at 12:00 PM ^

I remember in 1992, the University of Houston Cougars were hosting our arch-rival Illinois Illini. Houston was up a lot. IIRC, on the last play of the game (or so), Houston was up 24-13 and faked a kneel-down--the QB popped up and tossed a TD to an uncovered receiver--to make an even more lopsided score 31-13 for no apparent reason.

Well, the following week, Houston visited the Big House. Bo was none to pleased with what Houston did to a conference mate, so he exacted some Big Ten revenge 61-7.

That is sportsmanship.

(BTW of course different sports have different types of sportsmanship. Golfers are supposed to turn themselves in for violating the rules; hockey players beat each other up for violating the rules. Also, European soccer teams [like in UK and Germany] would tell you its disrespectful to take the foot off the gas when playing a vastly inferior team.)