A Data-Driven Response to the “Fire Harbaugh” and “Unacceptable” Crowd: What Trade-Offs are You Willing to Make to Win?

Submitted by jcorqian on December 1st, 2019 at 5:48 PM

Conclusion: Michigan will – in all likelihood (e.g., 90%+ probability) lose every year to Ohio State unless we recruit better (defined as being within 2 – 3 spots of OSU through the 247 Sports composite rankings) because we will never outcoach OSU by a margin that is wide enough to overcome the talent deficit (they have lots of money invested in football and can hire top-of-the-line coaches too).  The key to recruiting better will be to do things that Michigan has traditionally condemned as unsavory in college football – yes, I am talking about viewing the sport not through the lens of amateurism and the student-athlete experience, but through the lens of a semi-professional enterprise complete with money and a “football-first” mentality.  This is something that Harbaugh and the current administration is unwilling to do (at least at this time).  As a fanbase, ultimately we need to decide what’s more important: A) amateurism and the student-athlete experience and 9-4 / 10-3 type seasons without B10 championships or the playoffs, or B) shifting to a semi-professional enterprise and competing for B10 championships or the playoffs.

Note that I am not trying to support A or B (my personal opinion is to lean towards B only the sense of unleashing player payments but nothing else, FWIW).  I simply feel based on what I’ve been reading here on the blog that most people are not aware how binary A and B are as paths.  The goal of this diary is to hopefully get people to understand – through data – that Harbaugh has basically done as well as anyone can possibly do (and has more than met Michigan’s historical standard) without going down path B.  You all can obviously come to your own conclusion on what is “acceptable” to you, but I take issue with calling for Harbaugh’s head thinking that another coach can come in and do better while strictly adhering to path A.  Not going to happen based on the data.

Context:  Why am I writing this?  Well, unlike many I am not all too upset at the outcome of yesterday’s game.  Obviously, it sucks incredibly hard as a true, die-hard Michigan fan, but I am a firm believer in unhappiness generally coming from outcomes being worse than expectations.  My expectations were exceptionally low – like Magnus’ prediction of 42 – 17 at TTB, I also thought that we would get blown out.  I analyze data and predict outcomes for a living (I’m an equity investor) and would flatter myself in that I am more dispassionate and less emotional in coming to conclusions from data, even in things that I care deeply about.  On Wednesday before the Thanksgiving break, one of my PMs – who is a Wisconsin grad and a huge fan so extremely familiar with the B10 – asked me how many points I’d have to spot OSU for a bet on who buys lunch.  I told him three touchdowns, and two touchdowns if I was truly being a homer.  The data from each teams’ respective seasons simply told that story fairly clearly.

I’m not writing this because I’m upset at what happened yesterday; I am writing this because I find it incredibly annoying that so many people shit on Harbaugh so hard with endless hot takes (fire him!) after losses like this that can easily be seen from a mile away due to structural gaps in programs – yes, I am talking about recruitingUnless Michigan is willing to address these structural gaps, then we should be content with this outcome.  (Side note – I do think some of the Don Brown criticism is justified, more from a fundamental perspective in DT recruitment philosophy).   I think that Harbaugh is a good man who truly cares about his student-athletes and even yesterday absolutely refused to throw them under the bus to the media after being asked an obviously leading and asinine question on the talent gap.  I think that Harbaugh is an exceptional competitor and that it’s absolutely foolish to question his desire to win The Game.  I also think that Harbaugh is extremely focused on being clean and doing things the right way.  Of course, my whole premise is that we are on an uneven playing field with top programs like OSU, Alabama, Clemson, LSU, Georgia, etc. (I was the guy who wrote this diary).  Unless we as fans / as a school are willing to even that playing field, it’s very much unfair to criticize Harbaugh for what has been – objectively – an incredible turnaround and great job so far.

What the Data Says

Michigan and OSU Annual Record Since 1953 (Michigan Joining the Big Ten)

Conclusions:

Michigan has always been a good but not elite program – the average season across this 67-year dataset has a 69% win percentage (defined as wins over total games played, so ties back when ties were allowed do not count as wins).  When broken down by coach:

Bennie Oosterbaan: 57%

Bump Elliot: 53%

Bo Schembechler: 79%

Gary Moeller: 73%

Lloyd Carr: 75%

Rich Rodriguez: 57%

Brady Hoke: 60%

Jim Harbaugh: 73%

So for example, the average Lloyd Carr season was a 75% win rate, or basically 9 – 3.  Note that the average win percentage for all coaches other than Harbaugh is actually only 65% (note that this is different than the average across every season, since every coach’s average record is counted as just a single entry in this calculation).  The key takeaway is that Harbaugh actually is performing better than our historical average, and basically on par with Moeller and Carr.  This doesn’t even factor in the fact that he had no foundation and had to clean up after RR and Hokes’ messes.  Only Bo is has a higher average winning percentage, and I would argue that Bo had advantages that Harbaugh doesn’t.  These include: 1) higher scholarship limits, 2) a weaker rest of the B10, and 3) a significantly weaker OSU.  Bo also had a much easier path to championships since you could tie… under the old rules, we would have tied for the B10 Championship with OSU last year so Harbaugh would have won a championship, something that is often overlooked.

Now, let’s turn to OSU.  They have an average season win percentage of 77% across the 67-year dataset, which is notably higher than Michigan’s 69%.  When broken down by coach (I’m skipping Fickell’s interim year):

Woody Hayes: 76%

Earle Bruce: 75%

John Cooper: 70%

Jim Tressel: 82%

Urban Meyer / Ryan Day: 92%

Meyer / Day’s success is simply astronomical and clearly above OSU’s previous trend line, though Tressel had already established it.  Clearly, something changed with Tressel and then changed again with Meyer / Day.  Note that the average win percentage for all coaches other than Meyer / Day is only 76%.  Meyer / Day have an absurd 92% win percentage.

All of this is easily supported by Bill Connelly’s S&P+, by the way:

So, what changed in terms of OSU dominating Michigan?  It’s extremely simple – recruiting.

Michigan and OSU Annual Recruiting Rank Since 2000 (247 Sports Composite)

A few notes here: 1) Obviously I would go back further, but the database only goes to 1999 and the data integrity looks weird that year.  2) I highlighted 2003 – 2007 for OSU’s class absolute rank because these are obviously incorrect – I looked into it and it seems that for whatever reason, the 247 database lists only a few OSU commits as hard commits and the rest are there but not included in the tally, so the number of recruits per class looks abnormally low which accounts for the low scores.  Realistically, OSU’s classes were much better – I’m hoping that the average player scores are still correct but have my doubts since they probably only include the players counted as hard commits.  Ultimately I decided to simply present the data as is without trying to manipulate it at all and just caveat what is obviously wrong.  I don’t think it really affects my point too much – just keep in mind that OSU’s 2003 – 2007 classes were realistically still likely ranked in the top ten and probably on par or better with Michigan.

Conclusions:

OSU has always out-recruited us.  Not a surprise, but look at how much the gap has increased since Meyer took over in 2012.  Now look at the gap since Harbaugh took over in 2015 – it has actually widened, which is extremely troubling.  Things have gotten worse.  Since Meyer started, the average player score for Michigan has been 90.0 and for OSU has been 92.2.  This is a gap of 2.2 on a 100 point scale, which seems small at first but then you realize that 247’s scale basically realistically goes from 80 – 100.  Since Harbaugh took over, this gap has widened to 2.7 – Michigan is 89.7 and OSU is 92.4.  This is a massive gap and basically the difference between a high 3-star average recruit and a mid-4-star average recruit on 247’s system… across every single recruit.  We are getting dominated in terms of talent.

I think that’s fairly obvious to everyone.  What’s more interesting to me is the uptick in OSU’s recruiting since Meyer started.  From 2000 – 2011, OSU’s average player score was 87.2, or a mid-high 3-star.  Since 2012, OSCU’s average player score has been 92.2, or a fairly solid 4-star.  This is a massive, massive increase – at a difference of +5.0, it’s actually more than the gap between OSU and Michigan today that I just mentioned of 2.7.  Again, there are some data integrity issues with 247 for some of the 2000’s years, but no matter what this is a tremendous increase in recruiting performance.

Here’s where I need to take a little detour and just state right now that if you insist on burying your head in the sand and don’t believe that paying recruits (etc. “cheating”) is 1) happening in college football despite the mountains of evidence, and 2) preventing Michigan from recruiting better, then the rest of this diary is not for you.  Just don’t read it and please don’t bother commenting.  Debates where both sides can’t agree on the facts don’t lead to anything, and I’m frankly not interested in wasting time.  I’m not going to try to lay out evidence to convince you other than quickly summarizing the following:

  • We know that much of the SEC is shady, from Saban on down, and is paying players
  • We know that Hugh Freeze was doing shady things and paying players (Laquan Treadwell cash photo)
  • We know that Clemson is paying players and funneling payments through religious venues (there is literally an article about this online)
  • We know that Georgia is paying players (Isaiah Wilson)
  • We know that Rashan Gary was offered ~$300K
  • Interim AD Jim Hackett himself literally said publically that people were trying to pay Rashan
  • John Bacon’s book elaborates on the Gary situation, discusses the issues more in detail (a Michigan coach is dejected because a recruit just got a brand new car in his driveway from another school, and he gives up on the recruitment knowing that kid wants money comes to mind), and literally has a quote from Harbaugh saying “it’s hard to beat the cheaters”
  • Seth of MGoBlog– on the board on this very site – has stated what the going rate for a Georgia 4-star under the table is and has also mentioned that Isaiah Wilson was coming to Michigan until Georgia made an offer he couldn’t refuse last minute
  • Andy Staples of The Athletic literally just wrote yesterday that  “Harbaugh either doesn’t know what a team that can compete with Ohio State looks like or — more likely — knows and has elected not to try to wade into the same recruiting waters.  Ohio State doesn’t compete with Michigan for players.  It competes with Clemson, Alabama and Georgia for players.  Only by signing multiple players that those schools want can a program join that club.  But that’s difficult to do, and it requires a choice Harbaugh has thus far seemed unwilling to make.”  Even the mainstream media is on to it.

Since it is a fact that Ole Miss was paying players during Hugh Freeze’s tenure and Georgia is currently paying players under Kirby Smart, I hypothesized that we would see a significant uptick in recruiting success during these coaches’ respective tenures.  I was absolutely right, as the data shows:

Ole Miss and Georgia Annual Recruiting Rank Since 2000 (247 Sports Composite)

Using the same 247 dataset, I found an absurd increase of ~8 spots (due to rounding) in class rankings between Freeze’s Ole Miss tenure and non-Freeze coaches over the same time frame.  The increase in average player score was 4.5 – this is the equivalent of going from a 3.5-star to a 4-star, or a 4-star to a 4.5-star on average.  Georgia’s data is even more absurd – historically, the school already recruited really well.  However, since Smart took over in 2016, Georgia’s average class rankings increased ~5 spots and the increase in average player score was an absolutely bonkers 5.2.  The data would suggest that it is ludicrous to say that paying players doesn’t materially improve recruiting – both Ole Miss and Georgia have seen their star average essentially go up by half a star or more when they have been paying players.

Now, to bring it all back to Michigan and OSU and Meyer’s +5.0 improvement in average player score – based on this, is it really so crazy that OSU is paying players, at least on the margin?  Yes, I understand that Meyer was a championship-winning coach at Florida, but can that fact alone draw countless 5-star, all-world recruits from Texas, California, and the Deep South?  Columbus isn’t really that much warmer than Ann Arbor, and it’s not like it’s a more attractive destination than staying in the South or the West Coast.  It’s likely not just Meyer and the excellent football that is attracting at least some of these recruits – there’s probably a little financial juice to get them over the line.

And it doesn’t have to be all financial – it can be other benefits.  Less stringent academic standards, for example (Fields taking only online classes ring a bell?).  Free cars, tattoos, meals, entertainment, etc., for example.  My point here is that given what we know about Urban Meyer and his willingness to bend the rules to get an edge (I’m not going to list Meyer’s transgressions, as I’m sure everyone is aware), is it really so crazy to think that OSU might be utilizing unfair edges in recruiting that gets them that incremental 5-star and those several incremental 4-stars relative to Michigan? 

I am certainly not arguing that every kid that goes to OSU, Georgia, Clemson, Alabama is going there for money – obviously they have excellent football programs.  I’m just saying that maybe instead of three 5-stars, they can sign five 5-stars, or twelve 4-stars instead of eight.  Over 4 or 5 years, these numbers add up a lot – there’s way more bullets in the chamber to hit on elite players, obviously.

It actually wasn’t even Meyer that started OSU down this path – they did that before with Tressel, who already had plenty of smoke for payments and impermissible benefits while at Youngstown State.  You can go to Michigan’s 247 board where several members who have connections / played football in that area confirmed that Tressel was recruiting with cash even back in those days.  I would contend that it is likely that OSU has shifted toward an SEC-style recruiting strategy while the rest of the Big 10 is still stuck with the traditional Big 10 “Midwestern” values strategy (and I’m from Iowa, I know what that means).

It’s been a long diary already, so let me wrap up by simply saying that the point of all this isn’t to point the finger at OSU or any other school.  Frankly, I don’t give a fuck if these schools want to pay kids (many of whom are likely not super financially well-off) lots of money to play football for them.  In fact, I can find no moral argument against it – isn’t this what American capitalism is all about, the ability to monetize your God-given skills without prejudice or penalty?  All I have to say is good for OSU and these southern schools – not all of these kids are going to make it to the NFL, and at the very least they are getting some sort of compensation for their skills and unbelievably hard work in the meantime.  There is no moral indictment of OSU going on here from me (at least in terms of money; Meyer sheltering a wife-abuser is a completely different story).

The point of all this is to try to show – with data – that Michigan is operating at a significant structural disadvantage unless we shed Path A (amateurism and the student-athlete experience) and pursue Path B (a semi-professional enterprise in which players are recruited with money).  Again, we each need to decide individually whether we are fine with Michigan winning 9 – 10 games a year and losing to OSU and never playing for championships while keeping our “integrity,” or whether we want to really compete nationally in college football.  It is absolutely, 100% a binary decision – you simply can’t have both.  I’m sick of people shitting on Harbaugh’s inability to compete with the big boys when he has one hand tied behind his back – he quite literally, based on his record and on the S&P+ data, is doing as well as he possibly can.  We as a school need to decide what we want – if that’s just to be a better version of (hopefully) Wisconsin, Iowa, Stanford, etc. and never compete for championships, that’s totally fine.  Just please don’t be a hypocrite and shit on Harbaugh – or even worse, much, much worse – the players for only having a knife at a gun fight.

P.S. – yes, Wisconsin beat us this year, yes Iowa beat us in 2016 – teams with more talent occasionally drop games.  We all know it happens to OSU too.  The point is the trend line, not small blips in data.  Also, I know that we made a lot of mistakes yesterday and we could have played a better game.  But we got beat by 29 points.  Michigan fixing its errors isn’t going to erase a >4 touchdown deficit.  OSU was just better, because they had better talent.

Comments

Mgoblue0205

December 15th, 2019 at 3:43 AM ^

What about the fact that throughout Michigan's history, at least since Bo anyway, Michigan's teams had more kids from Michigan and Ohio. Michigan barely even touches Ohio anymore. That's a factor right there, Harbaugh is getting highly recruited southern kids that don't know a damn thing about the rivalry. Whereas OSUs recruits it's engrained into them the minute they become Buckeyes.

bjk

December 2nd, 2019 at 12:15 AM ^

This is somewhat the path U-Chicago took in 1939 and Yale and Harvard around 1948.

This was roughly around the time that Harry Kipke was fired after M's '37 season, possibly because of a turnaround in fortunes from MNCs in '32 and '33, but also possiby after a shady history caught up to him during the downturn.  This included illicit practices (banned by the "Western Conference" before September in the '30s), paying players at fake jobs and a friendship with Harry Bennett, head of security for Henry Ford who supposedly literally knew where the bodies were buried and employed footballers as security at his AA mansion along with his pet lions.

M then fell upward by hiring Crisler.  Yale lost its rank as college football's all-time winningest team to Michigan sometime in the early 1970s.

It appears that M-fandom has by now seen the world from both ends of the telescope.

MonkeyMan

December 1st, 2019 at 8:21 PM ^

The short version of this very long diary: OSU wins because they cheat

While our players are doing calculus and too tired to practice, OSU players are having tutors do their basket weaving class assignments

And of course, we have NO unfair advantages over the other Big Ten teams we regularly beat (they probably cheat too, but aren't good at it). We don't have mountains of cash to throw at coaches, facilities, overseas trips for the ENTIRE TEAM to other nations, etc.

Should we sell our mortal souls to get to the CFB CG? No, there is a place for purity, integrity, fair play and honor- and it exists only in Ann Arbor.

Judgement day is coming people- repent! (its too late for you Urban, go back to your pizza)

BTW- I want a full Congressional investigation of how Army used cheating to almost beat us- they probably used drones to steal our calls.

Frieze Memorial

December 1st, 2019 at 8:46 PM ^

Thanks for doing this and I don't disagree with your conclusions.  But I think Michigan should stay the course and not get drawn in with the "win at any costs" teams, not for moral reasons but for the simple fact that football is approaching a cliff: as youth participation drops, so does personal and emotional involvement in the sport among kids and parents. It's becoming progressively harder to convince people to come to the stadium. Notre Dame isn't selling out its home games anymore. Notre Dame!

It means the bagmen with their tens- to hundreds-of-thousands of discretionary dollars are slowly becoming less willing to give that money to a football recruit.  It means that TV contracts will shrink and football programs will no longer be able to hold up entire Athletic Departments (in fact, few programs can do this anymore).  It means that University administrators will no longer be so dazzled by the millions of dollars that they ignore cheating, academic fraud, and athletes who aren't qualified for admission.

I believe that OSU, Alabama, et al., are going to find themselves in a very unhappy position once the money pools dry up. UM has at least credibly played the part of the "do it the right way" program for the last century or so.  The sun appears to be setting anyway, so I say stay on the high road.

caliblue

December 2nd, 2019 at 6:52 PM ^

I disagree with your premise. Yes there are less boys playing football at the High school level , especially in the north and west and this will have an eventual Impact. But the money is so good for top programs  they will try everything to maintain the staus quo. I think it will be tens of years before things change, at best.

Mgoblue0205

December 15th, 2019 at 3:56 AM ^

Alabama sure, they don't even try to hide it. Their recruits are driving brand new Challengers/Chargers. OSU pretty much dominates the state of Ohio, especially since Harbaugh practically ignores it. Stop acting like OSU is SMU of the 80s. OSU has always been highly talented, were you crying about cheating when Michigan was beating them in the 90s? The SEC has been dirty for years there's no doubt about it. If OSU cheats like they do, they aren't very good at it. Getting shut out against Clemson in the playoff. That shouldn't happen with all the players they pay right? OSU has always gotten great talent, the difference in the last 15 years or so is that they have brought in QB after QB that were the best in program history or some of the best. Stop acting like Harbaugh doesn't do things and I'm not saying cheat, but he's hired recruits HS coaches, he's given their parents jobs, he's over signed, he's done things to get an edge. Are you trying to tell me Michigan can't find a star QB or RB because they won't pay for one? Remind me where some of these QBs in the last few NFL drafts that went Top10 went to school? Duke among many other powerhouse cheaters lol.

RSSZS

December 1st, 2019 at 8:48 PM ^

Did Michigan cheat in 2012, 2013, 2016, 2018, and 2019? Those were good classes. 

Can you determine the cheaters by just declaring everyone ahead of Michigan a cheater? So, in 2017, there were four schools with bagmen and then pristine Michigan in 5? And, in 2013, three with bagmen then Michigan at 4? But in 2022, there are 11 schools cheating then Michigan?

Do you think that a rational high school star might choose OSU over Michigan bc that choice substantially increases likely future earnings in NFL? 

Do Michigan victories over Notre Dame and Northwestern count? Those schools are ranked higher academically than Michigan.

Michigan is a great school and football program. It may be back on top in recruiting and the rankings soon. When that happens, I will not assume Michigan is cheating. But I guess you will have to based on your logic.

marmot

December 1st, 2019 at 8:56 PM ^

It's a good post. A lot of time spent on it, though... you asked/posted your thesis question in the title. "What trade-offs would I personally be willing to make?"

I showed up to the game yesterday fully expecting defeat, by at least 10-14 points.  I showed up to the game in '18, expecting a win.  Both games I was flat out embarrassed for the Seniors. Yesterday was so much worse than' 18.  They had a home stadium filled with Buckeyes cheering louder for OSU than anything that happened for the home team. 

Both games were uncompetitive. Your models allude to competition between two teams that right now aren't competitive with each other. 

Ghost of Fritz…

December 3rd, 2019 at 10:00 AM ^

Maybe everybody is cheating, at least to a degree, but some have become far more institutionalized, efficient, and bold with the payments and benefits. 

$500 handshakes.  Booster gives a job to recruit's dad.  Luxury 'loaner' cars from the booster's dealership.  No show jobs.  Booster grossly overpays to buy the small time business that a recruit's father owns.  Booster pays off recruit's family debts.  Substantial money is 'donated' to a religious not-for-profit which then funnels money to the recruit's family.  Cam Newton affair at Auburn.  Reggie Bush as USC.  Ole Miss guy letting slip that guys were getting paid.  You think those last three are the only ones?  Or the exposed tip of the iceberg? 

I would not doubt that some of that has happened at Michigan. Hard to see how Michigan could end up with top ten classes otherwise. 

But the way it is done, and the magnitude of what is done at Clemson (just to pick a name) or Ole Miss (which strangely got caught)...that is a real competitive advantage over some $500 handshakes or other small time stuff. 

If anyone here really thinks Clemson and Alabama are not running things in a materially different way than Michigan, then...good for you.

Where does OSU fall on the spectrum?  Hard to see any school matching Clemson and Alabama's recruiting results with out something at least close to Clemson and Alabama's practices.  You be the judge.

Finally...ND is not "ranked higher academically" than Michigan.  At least not in any ranking system that is not a farce.  Good school.  But not even close to Michigan academically.

Mgoblue0205

December 15th, 2019 at 4:01 AM ^

Excellent post man. Respect to you, I am one of the rare Michigan fans that is honest with the state of the program instead of saying well everyone that's better than us cheats, or the even more hilarious one is this ridiculous notion that recruits that come to Michigan aren't put into general studies majors. Jourdan Lewis came out publicly about this, Jim Harbaugh talked about it and ruffled feathers when he was at Stanford.

bronxblue

December 1st, 2019 at 9:01 PM ^

Solid stuff.  I think Michigan already does a lot of the football factory stuff to an extent; I'm sure if we looked at the number of online courses athletes took it would be higher than the student body.  But I also think the NIL rights changes would let boosters and the moneyed part of the University get more involved, and that does seem to be a bridge the administration has hitherto been unwilling to fully cross.  

Wolfman4

December 1st, 2019 at 9:10 PM ^

I completely agree with you.  I would also choose option B, but with C Webber Michigan will never go in that direction. 
 

I believe this result is the status quo until the NCAA allows players to be paid. That should help level the playing field.

 

thanks for the post

Wolfman4

December 1st, 2019 at 9:10 PM ^

I completely agree with you.  I would also choose option B, but with C Webber Michigan will never go in that direction. 
 

I believe this result is the status quo until the NCAA allows players to be paid. That should help level the playing field.

 

thanks for the post

Ghost of Fritz…

December 1st, 2019 at 9:35 PM ^

Superb post.

A few more ideas to add to the mix...

1.  We should start with a very strong presumption that all sorts of cheating, and especially under the table financial payments, are rampant in CFB.  Why?  Because in any system with weak rule/norm enforcement coupled with a 'winner take most' incentive structure, cheating will almost always be rampant.  CFB has both.  NCAA recruiting rule enforcement is exceedingly weak.  No incentive to expose the rampant cheating as that would harm the financial value of the product.  No power to do real investigations (even if they wanted to).  No subpoena power.  No perjury punishment, etc., etc.  It is also a 'winner take most' system (and far more so than in the past).  JH can;t beat OSU or win the Big Ten?  National media brands him a loser, despite producing the 7th best win percentage over the past five years.  IOW, if you do not make the playoff...you are in the loser column.  To get in the 'winner' column you have to win our conference (no more co-champs) and make the playoff. 

2.  It is not be a binary cheating/not cheating situation.  Some form of impermissible benefits is probably happening at most places.  But it is probably super-charged, institutionalized, and more advanced at certain schools.  Yet the fact that some level of impermissible payments happen everywhere create a situation where there are no fully clean programs that could rat out the worst cheaters.  And even if someone wanted to rat out say, Clemson or Georgia, when they swoop in at the end with big $$$ to grab your recruit...the NCAA will do nothing.  So why bother?

3.  We should start with a strong presumption that OSU is cheating (systematic financial payments) in the most advanced and sophisticated ways.  Why?  Because we really do know that Alabama and Clemson are operating this way.  (just one article: https://www.fitsnews.com/2019/04/25/clemson-athletics-under-microscope-…).  It would not be possible for OSU to be at the same recruiting level as Clemson and Bama level if they were doing nothing beyond a few $500 handshakes and free tats.  No way they could compete with Clemson and Alabama for top three classes if Clemson/Bama were offering $300,000 (laundered through a religious org) while OSU were offering 'hey, free tats!'  Sorry, but 'come sing Carmen Ohio with us and beat Michigan' is not that same as $300,000.

IOW...the OP gives some powerful statistics suggesting that something drastically changed in OSU's recruiting with Tressel then Meyer.  And in a system with lax rule enforcement and 'winner take most' rewards, the most plausible explanation is that OSU, which recruits at the same super-elite level as Alabama and Clemson, took payments and benefits to an entirely different level.

Ghost of Fritz…

December 2nd, 2019 at 7:52 PM ^

Yes, I would guess that no program is totally clean.  Money changes hands at Michigan too. 

However...in a system with no meaningful rule enforcement, some are willing to go much further than others in breaking rules.  That creates advantage to the most egregious rule breakers, while the lesser rule breakers are at a competitive disadvantage. 

Similar thing happens with tax enforcement, especially in nations with weak enforcement (which the U.S. is inching towards, BTW).

Mgoblue0205

December 15th, 2019 at 4:08 AM ^

That's interesting. If OSU is cheating like Bama and Clemson, they suck at it. They got goose egged by Clemson. Not only that, they won 1 National Championship, meanwhile Alabama and Clemson were playing each other in the playoff yearly. Not sure if you are aware, but OSU has always gotten great recruits. Also, you may not realize because people that go right to cheating don't really think about it too much, Ohio high school football is full of great talent. Since Harbaugh pretty much avoids Ohio these days, OSU gets whoever they want from there. Bama and Clemson don't even try to hide their cheating, especially Alabama with their new recruits Chargers and Challengers. The only difference between OSU of the past 10+ years, and OSU during the Cooper years is that they are on a great run of playmaking QBs. The best in program history. Did you think Coopers teams were cheaters? I highly doubt it.

Hail2Victors

December 1st, 2019 at 9:37 PM ^

A lot has been written and said about a "talent" disparity between the two teams.  Personally, I think that is a lot of Bull Shit.    Michigan made a ton of self-inflicted mistakes in yesterday's game.   The team lacked a lot of self-discipline -- much of which is coaching IMO.  Stuff has to be drilled and drilled into people to become disciplined.

Personally I thought the offensive line played extremely well.   Chase who?  I dont think he recorded a tackle much less a sack.  i would think all 5 of those guys get a shot on Sundays.  Same for both of our TEs.   I thought Shea played extremely well except for the fumbled snap.   Geez how many dropped passes dud they have?  10?   The receiving really let the team down.  Hassan Haskins misread on 4th and 1 could a been a TD.  Just so many mistakes...  OSU may have. 11 guys on Defense that will play on Sundays but they gave up 285 yards passing in the 1st half.   The game could have been tied at half without the fumble and DPJs dropped in the endzone. (Plus the extra point miss).

On the other hand--the defense needs help.  We need some DTs.   Still if M would have shown up in the 2nd half this game could have been close.  A lot of those mistakes arent talent issues--they are self-discipine.  The team the team the team....  just think the coaches are missing the boat on that...

 

 

Eph97

December 1st, 2019 at 10:24 PM ^

Harbaugh doesn't seem like the timid type, so if it is a well known fact OSU is paying players why doesn't he along with the Michigan AD go to the NCAA and turn OSU in with the evidence? I didn't hear him complain that he lost yesterday because OSU was cheating.

VikingDiet

December 2nd, 2019 at 2:44 PM ^

Don't be naive... Michigan players, some of them, are receiving illicit benefits. Maybe not on the scale of the schools mentioned, but they are. Harbaugh cannot raise such concerns without a pristine program, which I don't think exists in college athletics.

Remember, "people in glass houses sink ships"

nogit

December 1st, 2019 at 10:31 PM ^

I want to believe the narrative that the great football schools are great because they have gone on path B, and the reason we lose to OSU is mostly that we at least have not yet sold our souls, as it may be some kind of consolation.

I'm not seeing it in the data.  I see that OSU out-recruited us.  I see that sometimes recruiting changed/improved with a new coach at various schools (...including JH)

What part of the data says we're clean?  All the same evidence is there - new coach, jump in recruiting.  Many other schools can't match the level of recruiting we have.

What part of the data says why we regularly lose to schools we've out-recruited, but can't beat schools that out-recruit us?

I think we have to examine other hypothesis as well.  None of these seem any less supported by the data.

Maybe we are a nebraska: the once perennial blue blood that is just not as attractive anymore due to an extended downturn.

Maybe we are a texas, USC, or florida state, where even with great recruiting (regardless of being clean or dirty) we should just be performing better for the talent we have.

Maybe we are a stanford, where our academic requirements are the reason we cant consistently land top 5 classes.

Ghost of Fritz…

December 2nd, 2019 at 6:44 AM ^

You are saying that it is possible that taking the financial payments to a different level is one causal explanation for the drastic uptick in OSU's recruiting, but that others cannot be ruled out either by the OP's data, such as they win and 5 stars want to play for a winner, etc.

O.k., but your post is starting with a presumption of innocence, and then putting the burden on the OP to convincingly rebut that presumption of innocence.

I would argue that the presumption should run the other way.  Why?  We know that systematic and institutionalized payments are happening at places like Clemson and Alabama.  This is certain.  Yet OSU came to recruit at the same level as Alabama and Clemson. 

That simply would not be possible unless OSU were offering a package as attractive as Clemson and Alabama.  That is enough evidence that the burden should now shift to OSU to persuasively explain how they achieve the exact same recruiting results as Alabama and Clemson, with OSU being clean while Alabama and Clemson are demonstrably dirty in the most advanced and sophisticated ways. 

 

Mgoblue0205

December 15th, 2019 at 4:20 AM ^

Last I checked, Alabama HS football and South Carolina HS football aren't anywhere near the recruiting hotbeds of Ohio. Forget all this data crap and answer me this, why does OSU suck at cheating then? They laid a goose egg against Clemson. They have one championship, Bama and Clemson are in the playoffs every year and both have multiple championships. Did you think OSU was cheating in the Cooper years? Do you know what the only difference is? Quarterback. OSU is getting the best QBs they've ever had, even the ones that transfer are Heisman contenders for other teams. OSU has always been highly talented, ALWAYS. The difference was in the Lloyd days, even towards the end...Michigan had highly rated kids from Ohio. OSU practically gets them all now. So what you're saying is Michigan can't get a great QB or a great RB because they won't buy one like OSU? Interesting, why is it that the most highly sought after QBs in the last idk 5 NFL drafts have come from mostly smaller schools. They seem to recruit and develop good QBs. Michigan's best QB has been Jake Rudock for one season. That's the best they can get, and you're crying cheaters. Lol

Mpfnfu Ford

December 1st, 2019 at 10:50 PM ^

There’s a cost to doing business, and Michigan’s got to decide whether they want to never win anything ever again or meet the market demands for top talent. The bar was already raised a while ago beyond where Michigan seemed to be comfortable, but now Georgia’s out here throwing around an insane amount of money for DL and you’ve got to be in that same ball park.

To whatever extent Michigan was able to win with cleanish hands has been wrecked by demographic decline in the Midwest. You cannot have a good team without recruiting the southeast and Texas. That means you gotta play by Texas’ and the southeast’s rules. 

Jevablue

December 1st, 2019 at 10:52 PM ^

This diary is 100% dead on.  The coaching staff can always do better around the margin. That will not overcome elite talent over time. All you had to do to see the problem yesterday was watch the line of scrimmage. It wasn’t even close. 
I’m hopeful that the recent court rulings will bring things out of the shadows and allow for a leveling of the playing field. If not stick a fork in this bullshit rivalry. 

daddylox

December 1st, 2019 at 11:09 PM ^

Fantastic post. 

Despite the pain, I am all-in on option A.  I'm a dinosaur in that regard.  To find out that our program is 'dirty' would be devastating.  I realize how naive I am in this... but a man can hope.

That being said, if the NCAA is forced to allow players to be compensated (one way or the other)... just give me the link to contribute.

Newton Gimmick

December 1st, 2019 at 11:58 PM ^

Excellent stuff.  Why I come to MGoBlog.

I do have to quibble with one thing you say: "Now look at the gap since Harbaugh took over in 2015 – it has actually widened, which is extremely troubling.  Things have gotten worse."

It seems you are including the 2015 recruiting class (37th nationally) as part of Harbaugh's track record.  He only had a few weeks to pull that one together.  If you exclude that class, the margin is still there but not quite as troubling.

It's also a reminder of what happens when you fire people -- you often lose a year of recruits.  We had that in both 2011 and 2015.

WalmartMarineW…

December 2nd, 2019 at 12:24 AM ^

What have those “cheating” teams given up? Conference championships, National championships, wins over arch rivals, consistent winning. Isn’t all that the point, to win, I know some will say it isn’t the “right way” but at the moment it is starting to become the only way to compete with the big boys. Honesty this football program and fan base is showing the don’t have the balls to do it. 

Mongo

December 2nd, 2019 at 11:29 AM ^

Once we all realize that paying players and not reporting it to the IRS is tax evasion, I don't think we want any part of enabling federal tax crimes to occur.  The players are not reporting this as income so whomever is paying them is not reporting it as a gift tax event.  And if the money is being funneled thru a not-for-profit like a church, that is also a felony called money laundering.  That crime ropes in a lot of folks, including the non-profit's bank/employees and ANYONE who has knowledge of such money laundering payments.  A blind eye is no defense for money laundering.

Tax evasion and money laundering are serious felonies that typically entail jail time and fines for those caught of either.

Ghost of Fritz…

December 2nd, 2019 at 2:43 PM ^

That is all true.  But...isn't the probability of actually being prosecuted for money laundering arising out of CFB bag men essentially zero?  Prosecutors would spend limited time/resources resources on money laundering with organized crime, drug rings, etc., right? 

Not arguing that M should go all in on this just because they would not get caught.  But...what South Carolina prosecutor is going to bring that case against Clemson, right?

Tex_Ind_Blue

December 2nd, 2019 at 12:29 AM ^

Great post. There is a good way to prove or disprove the "Michigan doesn't care but OSU does" theory. Let's check the points spread, the number of penalties committed and the number of chunk plays allowed for each team in the Game since Tressel took over or during the period where data is available. Then check how far off the season norm those values are for each team. The hypothesis is, OSU gameplans the entire year for Michigan and performs beyond their season norm. 

Thank you for doing this. 

JHumich

December 2nd, 2019 at 1:17 AM ^

I prefer to do it the right way, go into The Game optimistic each year, and have my heart torn out. It just feels like being a fan of the best FBS school/team out there. When we are legitimately allowed to pay players, it'll level the playing field some. Go Blue!

jcorqian

December 2nd, 2019 at 1:59 PM ^

Just a thought here - what is the "right way?"  Who defines what is "right?"  Is it the NCAA, which is as corrupt and hypocritical organization as they come?

I used to care more about "integrity" but when I realized that 1) it's a concept without a ton of definition, especially morally, in this context, and 2) no one else cares about it, what's the point?

Like I said in the diary, I can't quite figure out why paying poor kids who have a talent that generates hundreds of millions for the universities they represent is - in any way - a bad thing necessarily.  Morally I can't find a fault with it, especially in the context of American capitalism.

Let's face it - for many of these kids, they aren't going to be hedge fund analysts and software engineers (in the same way that I could never become a college football player, despite playing football and loving it during high school).  Why is it that they aren't allowed to monetize their talent because of some arbitrary rules by as shit-filled of an organization as the NCAA?