More likely to survive: Dantonio or Izzo?
For me, this is just a no-brainer. Izzo is only one who has built up enough equity with the university off the field (or court) via community and charity work to warrant a second guess on canning his ass. Dantonio appears even more tone-deaf and beligerant with how he's dealing with OTL report so one hint of evidence backing up the ESPN story could seal the deal for him
January 28th, 2018 at 1:27 AM ^
I'll be the first to admit it if I'm wrong, but I don't see Dantonio or Izzo getting forced out over this. Unless the new investations find paper trails showing them deliberately ignoring / actively covering up sexual assaults, they'll be fine.
January 28th, 2018 at 1:33 AM ^
January 28th, 2018 at 2:17 AM ^
call me a cynic but I don't think State fires their most successful football and basketball coaches of all time simply because of a "culture problem". There'd have to be real honest "a crime was committed by this specific individual we legally can't ignore it" for that to happen.
January 28th, 2018 at 2:20 AM ^
And who'd have thought, that Michigan would fire the one guy who OSU feared in coach Moeller, the guy who annilihated OSU, and for a disorderly evening while drunk.....
For those of you too young to know, OSU was petrified of Moeller...he crushed them... I think he was undefeated vs them, too.
January 28th, 2018 at 2:26 AM ^
think of how differently the 90's would have turned out with Mo in charge instead of Lloyd.
January 28th, 2018 at 2:33 AM ^
You guys do remember that Gary Moeller went 8-4 each of his last two seasons, right?
January 28th, 2018 at 2:39 AM ^
WTF was Pep on that staff too?
January 28th, 2018 at 8:04 AM ^
January 28th, 2018 at 8:46 AM ^
Yes, we remember. Armani Toomer was on both of those teams.
January 28th, 2018 at 4:51 PM ^
Armani sure is making some real coin in the haute couture world!
/amani'ed
January 28th, 2018 at 8:51 AM ^
I mean, I liked Mo, but have people forgotten his endless cavalcade of third-and-long draw plays? I'm still waiting for one to work...
January 28th, 2018 at 11:17 AM ^
January 28th, 2018 at 11:43 AM ^
And Michigan is still trying to make them work.
January 28th, 2018 at 9:27 AM ^
And thats the real reason they let Mo go. I loved Mo thought he was a great coach but he went 8-4 If you remember Red was busted for being drunk and pissing on a building but they didn't let him go and I'm glad they didn't. The media also made a bigger deal of Mo because well its football versus hockey
January 28th, 2018 at 11:46 AM ^
January 28th, 2018 at 1:44 PM ^
January 28th, 2018 at 2:57 AM ^
You do remember that Carr's 1997 team won the only national championship for the football program in the past ~70 years right?
January 28th, 2018 at 3:38 AM ^
yes, it would have been a totally different decade.
who knows what would have happened.
could have been great and could have been shit.
kind of wild to think about though.
January 28th, 2018 at 3:48 AM ^
Yeah, but Lloyd Carr left the cupboard bare for Rich Rod, he's not very popular on here.
January 28th, 2018 at 7:04 PM ^
January 28th, 2018 at 7:57 AM ^
Moeller was a good coach, and he probably should have kept the Lions job despite that FG (I was at that Chicago game - cool story, bruh). He is the one that got the UM train of NFL QBs started. But, like all things Bo, he had a tendency to shut down his high octane offense when things were getting tough. Everybody remembers that FSU game as a beat down. The first half of that game was pretty close, but Moeller shut it all down in the second half and tried to eat clock to the win by running the ball. Nobody knows if UM would have been able to keep up, because FSU was supahotfire that game, but they never got the chance to try.
I don't know what happened that night, why he got sloshed. But he did. Its unfortunate, but he was treading some warm water becuase of the 8-4 seasons when that happened. It was just too much. If either Dantonio or Izzo experience some hardship like that right now, it might be too much to overcome. But if they whether the storm for another 6 months, or so (somehow), they'll be just as safe as they were 2 months ago.
January 28th, 2018 at 11:38 PM ^
January 28th, 2018 at 8:45 AM ^
You are thinking like LAS and Hollis are still there. The new president will have no ties to the University and will have a mandate to clean up the filth. Dantonio and Izzo are part of that filth. They may not be the grime coating the walls, more like the scum floating on top.
January 28th, 2018 at 9:26 AM ^
January 28th, 2018 at 10:55 AM ^
January 28th, 2018 at 12:07 PM ^
Dantonio has multiple clips out there that just don't matchup to the facts and evidence. I agree that there is a love of winning and Dantonio is very popular among MSU circles. I get that. But the assumption would have to be that the story does not advance and that victim testimonials aren't shared.
They will be shared. Then video of Dantonio saying things directly oppositve will be contrasted. He will end up looking very badly.
Dantonio has 'doubled down' in the age of video and intense sports coverage:
"I have received many questions and inquiries about today's reports and latest reports. I'm here tonight to say that any accusations of my handling of any complaints of sexual assault are completely false," Dantonio said. "Every incident reported in that article was documented by either police or the Michigan State Title IX office. I've always worked with the proper authorities when dealing with the cases of sexual assault. We have always had high standards in this program, and that will never change."
http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/22227960/michigan-state…
I don't think that will hold up. That's just the tip of the iceberg. Notice his choice word 'always'. That leaves little wiggle room.
January 28th, 2018 at 3:12 PM ^
January 28th, 2018 at 1:41 PM ^
January 28th, 2018 at 2:10 PM ^
to check the state constitution probably. if they all resign, maybe? otherwise its a state-wide elected position and only the voters can 'fire' the BoT, via a recall.
January 28th, 2018 at 12:00 PM ^
Briles did not survive at Baylor. Jo Pa was quietly shuffled off into retirement. I think consequences are coming.
The problem is that Dantonio and Izzo has been highly successful and there has been a mechanism in place to protect them and 'spin' their images. That works as long as MSU, local reporters and local authorities are the only ones 'in' on the trangressions.
What is different now is that MSU does not have control of the narrative any longer. That means others will be deciding what takes place. There will now be external pressures that did not exist before. For 11 years, or so, they were able to pull this off. No longer.
January 28th, 2018 at 12:00 PM ^
Briles did not survive at Baylor. Jo Pa was quietly shuffled off into retirement. I think consequences are coming.
The problem is that Dantonio and Izzo has been highly successful and there has been a mechanism in place to protect them and 'spin' their images. That works as long as MSU, local reporters and local authorities are the only ones 'in' on the trangressions.
What is different now is that MSU does not have control of the narrative any longer. That means others will be deciding what takes place. There will now be external pressures that did not exist before. For 11 years, or so, they were able to pull this off. No longer.
January 28th, 2018 at 6:00 PM ^
I think most objective observers would view Biggie Munn and Duffy Daugherty as more successful than Dantonio. Both of them coached teams that were considered national champions.
January 28th, 2018 at 4:22 AM ^
next question.. Seriously, in State's eyes winning > vicitms. They've already shown that.
January 28th, 2018 at 6:31 AM ^
And thank goodness espn has been snooping around for years up there. Without their investigation we wouldn't even be having be having this conversation.
January 28th, 2018 at 8:18 AM ^
January 28th, 2018 at 8:31 AM ^
Not meant as a hot take but thanks for the constructive criticism.
/s
January 28th, 2018 at 12:27 PM ^
January 28th, 2018 at 1:59 AM ^
January 28th, 2018 at 2:19 AM ^
January 28th, 2018 at 2:34 AM ^
January 28th, 2018 at 9:55 AM ^
January 28th, 2018 at 11:50 PM ^
January 28th, 2018 at 12:41 PM ^
January 28th, 2018 at 2:38 AM ^
I think you are looking at this kind of short sighted. Sure, Sparty could keep them around but they are now included and stained by the Nassar/MSU cover up/abuse narrative. This content won't all come out in a day, or a week, or a month but slowly over time the facts will drip out. There will be investigation of their programs, there will be civil actions based on Allswede's content and discovery on that will occur. Good luck on the recruiting trail and week in/week out answering questions about this content. No admin at MSU will want that look going forward. If Dantonio sought to protect his legacy he would probably walk now and try to disappear like Simon and Hollis (surprising Dantonio doesn't read the tea leves on Hollis, btw.)
Dantonio's pride here will be the real problem; it comes before the fall (when he won't be coaching).
As to Izzo, he's locked in with the Appling/Payne narrative. No amount of cancer child supporting or goodwill is going to take that stain off. Better to resign and remember championship years. His legacy is tarnished in a way that even Pitino/Tarkanian is not.
January 28th, 2018 at 10:51 AM ^
Kathy Redmond, founder of the National Coalition against Violent Athletes sent a formal letter in November of 2010 to NCAA president Mark Emmert, and the NCAA board of governors, including a copy of the letter sent to MSU President Simon. Here's an exerpt from that letter:
For example, despite recent reports of sexual violence involving two Michigan State University (MSU) basketball players, one of which admitted to raping the victim, neither man was charged criminally or even disciplined by the school. An earlier report of similar violence involving two other MSU basketball players also went un-redressed. In the past two years alone, 37 reports of sexual assault by MSU athletes have been reported, but not one disciplinary sanction was imposed by school officials against any of the men involved.
I don't think anyone believes that the NCAA did absolutely nothing, and Emmert just sent an email to the board of governors admitting to the receipt of this letter, and stating that he was aware that university officials were already investigating.
She referenced cases of alleged sexual assault at MSU as examples of the broader problem on many campuses. The MSU cases were widely reported in the press and already being investigated by law enforcement and university officials...
Since Simon presided over that board as its chairman until earlier this month, it sounds like she reassured the NCAA board of governors and Emmert at the time that her office had investigated and that the accusations within this letter were completely false, so I think the NCAA walks away reasonably clean on this.
However, this is probably the date that does Dantonio and Izzo in as far as the NCAA is concerned, because after this date there is no reason for them to not be on notice to do the right thing which includes handing off complaints to appropriate university/police parties to fully investigating complaints, not having the coach do the investigation, issue discipline when appropriate, and conduct formal training with athletes. It sounds like even after this both coaches were trying to keep investigations in house, not issuing any discipline, and providing training to athletes that essentially reporting sexual assault/harassment would tarnish the spartain image.
The NCAA will probably wait for the state's Special Prosecutor to finish investigating "every corner" of MSU, so I would not be surprised if both coaches survive another season, but once the NCAA is formally notified that after November of 2010 these coaches continued to operate in this manner, they are both done.
January 28th, 2018 at 11:12 AM ^
Yeah, they're both gone, and probably within the year. This is going to simmer and boil for quite some time and the pressure will be too hard to bear. It is absolutely going to affect their recruiting and their authority with players.
January 28th, 2018 at 1:20 PM ^
January 28th, 2018 at 4:55 AM ^
is as good as gone. Izzo will leech around for a few more years before he has a heart attack yelling at the refs to call more fouls because some random 3 star is kicking the shit out of his lottery choice lineup. Also Dantonio having the player accused of sexual assault tell his mother as a form of punishment is disgusting. More is going to come out, this isn't going away. This just opened the door, now every single reporter is going to be investigating and looking for something.
January 28th, 2018 at 9:09 AM ^
The smell of Pulitzers is in the air.
January 28th, 2018 at 9:13 AM ^
Unless more comes out, they did nothing wrong that rises to the level of firing. We've all been critical of both, and Dantonio has been too lenient on some things, but as of today there is really no reason they should be fired.
Coming off like a defensive asshole isn't a firing offense, nor is not demonstrating the correct level of emotion or sympathy for the victims. Unless something comes out connecting them to Nassar's case, or showing that either covered up an assault, the only reason to fire them would be an over-reaction to this horrible story.