Amounts and importance of NIL according to elite recruits -The Athletic ($)
Interesting article in the Athletic ($) quoting anonymous high-end recruits on what they were offered in NIL and the how important NIL was in their recruitment:
15 recruits were interviewed and amounts offered seemed to range from $50K-$1mil, but a fair portion said no money was ever discussed:
Player 1: $400K a year. It was surprising, for sure, playing defensive back.
Player 2: I never had money tossed my way in any conversations.
Player 3: Somebody tried to throw $1 million at me on signing day. Somebody called my parents and coaches. My loyalty to the program I signed with isn’t worth a million dollars. I’ll make that in no time.
How important NIL was in their decision:
Player 2: It was second or third. I didn’t really know much about NIL, but it played a role. The only thing more important for me was the relationships with the coaches. You have to bond with them.
Player 3: Last. Relationships, player development were No. 1 and No. 2.
Player 4: It was third. To me, relationships and a school that was going to develop me were the first two. Then a scheme that fits me best.
Almost uniformly across the 15 players quoted, they ranked NIL third in importance behind some combination of coaching relationships, player development or education. With many kids saying NIL wasn't discussed in their recruitment and others reporting that pay would be based on performance, maybe NIL was not the boogeyman many of us made it out to be to explain UM's 2023 recruiting class. These are all "elite" recruits and a third of them were offered less than $100K to sign and many signed based on potential earnings at the school.
Lots of other interesting anecdotes in the article on recruiting in general, straight from the horse's mouth:
https://theathletic.com/4044579/2023/01/03/college-football-recruiting-nil-2/
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:23 AM ^
....there is almost no incentive at all to be honest and say "yeah, I took the money". But if anyone thinks that Miami got a top 5 class based on "development and relationship" then I dunno what to tell them.
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:42 AM ^
But, but, but "Speed In Space".....Josh Gattis.
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:46 AM ^
recruiting is essentially a job market
just like other job offers $ plays a role, but other things do as well like development, playing time, and network and, oh yeah, educational opportunities. And different people will come up with different weightings for those factors.
But it still feels wild wild west to me
January 3rd, 2023 at 11:07 AM ^
This. I'm not one to scream "NIL!!" for any recruiting woes, and I do believe that players care about coaches, program culture, etc., but we have to take response bias into account here. There is a lot of hyperbole about money being thrown around, but this piece doesn't feel indicative of reality.
January 3rd, 2023 at 11:12 AM ^
What is the incentive to lie here? Mario Cristobal is historically an incredible recruiter, he was at Bama, Oregon, and now Miami. Josh Gattis is also a very good recruiter. 18 of 25 recruits in that class are from the state of Florida. Just because you want to believe something doesn't just make it true.
January 3rd, 2023 at 11:35 AM ^
Not sure about the incentive to lie but I think more insight is needed to see why these answers could be given. Example, a kid from a wealthy background might say his player development and establishing relationships are more important because $$ is not a dire situation to him or his household. Another kid who comes from a poorer background might say $$ is definitely the biggest factor because my family can't afford rent or meals every night. I don't think anyone would fault a kid either way but let's not act like these NIL contracts mean the same for everybody.
January 3rd, 2023 at 11:48 AM ^
Relationships and culture are not at all mutually exclusive from a bag of $.
If one program is willing to throw you a few hundred K to join the team, beyond the financial benefit, it makes you feel more appreciated and valued. I think it's really hard to parse the "bag" from other factors involved in decision making. It doesn't have to be as cynical as "I just went with the highest bidder", but if some schools are offering something up front, and others are offering nothing, there is an implied "we really want you here" that is hard to mimic with just words.
January 3rd, 2023 at 12:46 PM ^
It's not an issue of flat out lying, it's more an issue of how we perceive ourselves and want others to perceive us (yes, even if it is anonymous).
I have a good friend who was recently in the job market after being out of it for 5 years. They accepted a position which was a contract role to get back in the workforce. When they talked to people publicly, they said they loved the job and things were going well. When we talked one-on-one they couldn't stand the fact they were a contract employee and others around them were full time. They eventually took a different full time position even though the company and position was not as good for them.
Replace my friends employment status with NIL for recruits, and you can understand why it may come out as being third or fourth important in a survey, when in reality, NIL really is the #1 thing.
January 3rd, 2023 at 1:02 PM ^
True about JG.
He'll totally bang your mom in exchange for a commitment.
Oh, wait.
January 3rd, 2023 at 11:48 AM ^
What's the harm in saying it? I can't read the article, but it seems like it was anonymous. I don't doubt that there are some recruits going to the highest bidders, but getting to the NFL is probably a big deal for some guys and is a dream they've been chasing for ever.
I know for example, earlier in my career, I took a lower paying job offer between two law firms because the higher paying firm's Detroit office was an out-post office that was treated worse than the "bigger market" offices and I felt like I had a clearer path to advancement in the Detroit-based firm.
I don't think you'll largely go wrong with NIL at most schools. The opportunities are largely there. That said, I don't fault any players who take the money upfront even if it's basically "come here and play for $XXXXXXX. College football is a big business and everyone is making money hand over first. I read somewhere the other day that after CJ Stroud's dad went to prison when he was a young kid, his mom and siblings were living in a storage unit. Coming from that, can you blame the guy for wanting to make some money while he can? I read he paid off his sister's debt with NIL money. Nothing, and not even an NFL contract, are for sure. So, if he has a chance to make some real, life-changing money, I don't blame him or anyone for taking it.
January 3rd, 2023 at 12:49 PM ^
Exactly. Recruits absolutely know what the "right answer" is to these sort of questions. I'll be believing the actual recruiting results over what someone simply says.
January 3rd, 2023 at 2:53 PM ^
You mean the actual recruiting results that look basically exactly like the recruiting results before NIL?
January 3rd, 2023 at 6:41 PM ^
does it look the same for Michigan? Looks like things got worse to me.
January 3rd, 2023 at 2:07 PM ^
Studies where children are expected to self-report have huge issues with their viability due to constant lying from the children.
I don't expect this to be any different.
Anybody that tells you a million dollars didn't factor into their decision is out-right lying.
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:23 AM ^
So based on this feedback is it safe to say the annual "Harbaugh to the NFL" smoke may be a bigger factor than NIL? They want tight relationships with coaches (who they trust will still be there) and and player development. Interesting.
EDIT: Also, it also seems likely that at least some of these players have convinced themselves they chose the school because of the coaches and development, and the $ was just a nice bonus.
January 3rd, 2023 at 11:40 AM ^
Yeah, who knows what kind of cognitive dissonance comes from the players interviewed here.
January 3rd, 2023 at 11:50 AM ^
I really don't think it's mutually exclusive. Throwing some $ at the players shows you want them and appreciate their talents. It doesn't imply that every player will just go for the biggest bag, but they at least want to feel valued like their peers.
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:25 AM ^
This is interesting... Kinda throws a wet blanket on the 'Harbaugh doesn't like our NIL plan' argument. Well, on the surface, at least. I haven't read the whole article, yet, so the quick summary is gold.
I have access to the Athletic through the NY Times, but that pathway never works when I'm at work (like now), and it only works after several tries at home. I don't what the deal is...
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:27 AM ^
or would you rather play for a coach that had success coaching in the NFL, who is still a coaching talent that is sought after by NFL teams.... or a coach that simply isn't good enough to get any attention from NFL teams?
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:28 AM ^
Thanks OP. This is a great view into the decision making process of recruits and what matters most to them. I’ve been saying for some time that our fanbase’s perception of NIL in recruiting is distorted, especially the whining around the Dante Moore / CJ Carr recruitments. This is a good reminder that while NIL does matter and can meaningfully impact recruitments (a la Collins Acheampong), it is not the be all end all of recruiting that some have made it out to be.
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:30 AM ^
Post-fact interviews about whether or not grabbing a pile of cash (apart from IRS considerations) is what motivated your decision making has always felt a little dubious to me. Who's gonna cop to being greedy in a public forum? You can bet that set of people in the sample pool is a lot smaller than the actual number of people who salivate over a big bag of cash.
This is the inverse of the "Education is the most important thing" line of claptrap.
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:44 AM ^
I generally agree with your take, but in my mind at least, I thought most top 150 kids were getting "life-changing" money just to sign. While some kids are getting $1million+, it seems much more common that they get a nice chunk ($50K-100K), but not something someone can live off for prolonged amounts of time. In those cases, then player development and education probably are much more important and should be. How many kids would flip a commitment for an extra $10K, knowing that the original school is a better fit for long term goals, especially if the pay-for-performance aspect is well outlined? Maybe some, but I bet most wouldn't.
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:54 AM ^
I don't think it's all BS, but "no one talked about money at any school" is absolutely BS. People think "Oh they say NIL is 3rd, they must be lying", but I don't think so. Too many here act like Michigan is the only place in the world you can develop your playing career and get a good education. If you have good relationships with ND, OSU, etc., and they're offering more money than Michigan, then they probably won't sign with Michigan.
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:32 AM ^
Interesting. Admirable, if so. But...
How many people ask/are asked in a job interview "So why this company? Why this role? What motivates you?" How many said things other than money? And being honest with yourself, what was the real reason? Many say they're looking for a good fit, strong teams, long runway to learn and grow. And I'm also guessing they're declining the role if it doesn't pay more than their current position. Talking money is a cultural faux pas but it shouldn't be.
For me, I'd be really contemplating my odds of making it into the NFL. And, with a realistic view, I'd probably bias toward a school with the most NIL money and a good academic reputation. $400k/yr ($1.6M over 4) is a significant head start in professional life. Relationships matter... but at what point can you say with confidence your head coach, assistance coaches, position coaches are truly going to be there for your four years. There are Michigan players on their 3rd DC in 3 years.
January 3rd, 2023 at 11:21 AM ^
That makes sense to me, especially given how dicey and short NFL careers (when they even happen) can be. Upfront money would seem to be very attractive.
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:41 AM ^
Wow. A lot of us thought it was NIL, but I guess because none of these recruits said, "I went to whoever paid me the most" we must have been wrong.
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:44 AM ^
Blue, it would be interesting to hear what Texas A&M’s Collectives think about this.
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:41 AM ^
I don’t think anyone would admit that he just followed the money. I’m guessing a recruiting-obsessed person could probably figure out who these players are.
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:42 AM ^
This may be similar to (several years ago) players saying they didn’t receive any “brown bags”, or their families received other inappropriate benefits.
IIRC, USC, under Pete Carroll, never broke any rules.
The NCAA just doesn’t enforce recruiting violations anymore.
Before the saying was.. “It just means more.”, the informal motto was - “If you ain’t cheating, you ain’t trying.”
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:43 AM ^
I believe them like I believe them when they say Academics are important to them.
January 3rd, 2023 at 11:32 AM ^
Right. And the relationships we’re talking about are purely the coaches and staff and never the boosters who invite them to parties or the coeds that come out of the woodwork on big recruiting weekends.
January 4th, 2023 at 10:53 PM ^
Engineering is why I went to Bama!!
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:44 AM ^
Sure would love to know who player 7 is: "I don't really like [Michigan State]. The culture wasn't a fit."
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:45 AM ^
I still think NIL plays a much larger role than even anonymously made comments. Even anonymously, people don't feel comfortable with admitting it.
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:45 AM ^
I would like to know the schools that signed these kids.
Obviously, some of the kids might be reluctant to discuss money.
We know OSU pays kids.
We know MSU pays kids.
My thought is that there are 20-25 schools paying kids with enticements and or Salaries/Fake NIL deals.
January 3rd, 2023 at 11:16 AM ^
We know Michigan pays kids too. Will Johnson had an NIL deal on signing day, JJ and Corum are both using NIL funds to donate which we applaud.
January 3rd, 2023 at 12:02 PM ^
No, we don't know that Michigan pays kids. Per Harbaugh, there's no direct payment from the program/school to recruits to get kids to sign. However, they facilitate relationships. I know that Corum has a deal with Wolverine boots, and probably others. That's not Michigan paying him. That's Wolverine boots paying him.
January 3rd, 2023 at 1:41 PM ^
I'm talking about Enticements.
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:47 AM ^
Player 1: $400K a year. It was surprising, for sure, playing defensive back.
”And I said “where do I sign”?”
Player 2: I never had money tossed my way in any conversations.
“The money wasn’t tossed, just directly placed in my bank account.”
Player 3: Somebody tried to throw $1 million at me on signing day. Somebody called my parents and coaches. My loyalty to the program I signed with isn’t worth a million dollars. I’ll make that in no time.
“Besides, I was already getting $990,000 from the school I committed to.”
j/k (have some extra time at the hotel outside Memphis while waiting out these southern storms on my drive back home)
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:48 AM ^
Arkansas. All of it was nice.
I'll take "Words never expressed before for $500," Alex.
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:53 AM ^
yeah, this is no different than many of the recruits who say that "Academics" are a top priority to them - and then they pick Miami or Alabama. This is just so they don't look money grubbing.. I don't begrudge them for it. But, i'm not sure I believe that its how the majority feel.
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:59 AM ^
But I was told that every team other than Michigan was spending millions to recruit kids. Hell, there were multiple articles on this very site that outlined how Michigan lost players because of NIL and how every other program had it all figured out.
Anyway, I suspect that it's always going to be hyperbole because there's no danger in being wrong loudly.
January 3rd, 2023 at 10:59 AM ^
Even free agents in the pros are reluctant to say that money is the main reason they signed with a team. It's considered bad optics and there's a cultural revulsion against it.
January 3rd, 2023 at 11:00 AM ^
Money is just the easiest differentiator.... most programs academics, facilities, relationships, etc are going to be very similar to these players but it's very easy to compare $$$ which makes it so persuasive.
January 3rd, 2023 at 11:06 AM ^
Relationships and player development are the most important factors just like academics is the most important factor. Recruits like to say it, but then they go to Alabama anyway because its all just talk.
January 3rd, 2023 at 11:19 AM ^
I'm not sure you can make the case that Alabama isn't THE best at developing talent for the NFL. Relationships are fucking peachy when you win all time.
Agree on academics.
January 3rd, 2023 at 11:30 AM ^
I mentioned academics only in relation to Academics. When a recruit says NIL doesn't matter I'll take that the same way as them saying academics are very important. It's bullshit talk for their parents most likely. At least for highly recruited guys anyway.
January 3rd, 2023 at 11:49 AM ^
Alabama has about 60 players on NFL rosters and Michigan has 41. A gap, but not as much as people think.
January 3rd, 2023 at 11:13 AM ^
I imagine that much of the NIL talk was directed at parents or agents working with parents and possibly the players weren’t even fully aware of what offers were being made.
January 3rd, 2023 at 11:14 AM ^
I love how there is lots of evidence that NIL isn't some huge boogeyman and a major disruptor in high school recruiting but every response in this thread is basically saying these kids are lying in anonymous responses because they don't want to admit that maybe Michigan's coaches are just mediocre recruiters.