Will USC & UCLA ever actually be forced to play an outdoor "cold weather" Big Ten football game in mid/late Nov?
Read an interesting comment today that USC and UCLA might be able to arrange their schedules such that they either play each other, home non-con, or other games such they will never need to worry about playing outdoor mid/late Nov games in the "cold weather" locales. It makes sense, but also seems an underhanded way to avoid some tough road games.
Would the Big Ten schedulers allow it? Probably.
October 11th, 2023 at 9:08 PM ^
I eliminated SLC and Boulder since they are not traditional PAC locales (and won't be after this year again) - Corvallis was not mentioned because it is redundant with Eugene.
State College has been "Big Ten" for almost 25 years now and is very much within the "snow-belt".
Is there a particular reason you are being the way you are?
October 12th, 2023 at 10:46 AM ^
Ann Arbor at 30 degrees with flurries is much, much, much more comfortable than Eugene at 45 degrees and raining.
October 12th, 2023 at 11:40 AM ^
Debatable - especially when factoring in wind chill.
October 12th, 2023 at 2:33 PM ^
Well... I'm just basing on my experience living in both places...
October 12th, 2023 at 3:58 PM ^
Sure, but people playing a football game outdoors may feel differently about those scenarios.
October 12th, 2023 at 1:22 PM ^
Seattle gets ocean effect rain, like bomb cyclones and atmospheric rivers. Snow outside of Dec-Feb is definitely rare in the lowlands, though.
October 12th, 2023 at 4:00 PM ^
No question they get more rain, but that's really the the same thing as sleet/freezing rain, white out blizzards or minus zero wind chills.
October 11th, 2023 at 7:19 PM ^
If you want to say Big Ten teams have crappier weather overall in November, I think you'd be on solid ground. Only some of the Pac 12 teams (generally not the ones in Arizona or SoCal) have lousy weather in November.
Still, NittanyFan provided some solid data. Pac 12 teams sometimes have to play in lousy weather. Here are two more November samples:
Salt Lake City: High 52, Low 41
Boulder: High 55, Low 42
October 11th, 2023 at 7:26 PM ^
University of Utah: 4,783 ft above sea level
University of Colorado: 5,430 ft above sea level
Very much an additional challenge for any football player.
October 11th, 2023 at 7:56 PM ^
Less of a problem for athletes in peak condition though.
Besides - that's not really a weather/cold issue.
October 11th, 2023 at 9:02 PM ^
This doesn’t seem to check out when, for as long as I can remember, a playoff advantage for the Colorado Avalanche has been home games because of their altitude acclimation and their opponents lack thereof.
October 11th, 2023 at 9:09 PM ^
Doesn't seem to work for the Rockies.
October 12th, 2023 at 12:52 AM ^
At high altitude
1) Breaking balls barely have any break;
and 2) a batted ball flys further (less atmospheric resistance)
Free agents (especially pitchers) don't want to play there.
October 12th, 2023 at 9:49 AM ^
It also means a lot more pitches thrown during a season, which wears on a staff Teams in extreme high-run environments have underperformed historically. Wrigley after everyone else got lights is another example.
But it seems to me the more relevant point is that baseball is not an aerobic activity. Hockey at altitude is a whole different, um, ballgame.
October 12th, 2023 at 2:34 PM ^
We're talking about athletes in peak condition, not baseball players.
October 11th, 2023 at 9:10 PM ^
Right. I always hear comments about recruits not wanting to play in the snow, as if that is a regular occurrence. It's actually quite rare. Big Ten games are not played after November.
The NFL plays games in potentially bad weather through the end of January, which is a big difference.
October 12th, 2023 at 7:47 AM ^
Last year's Illinois game comes to mind too. High of 25 and windy so the wind chill was around 10 degrees. I wasn't there but friends who were said it was absolutely frigid.
October 11th, 2023 at 6:31 PM ^
They've also had games in Colorado and Utah.
October 11th, 2023 at 7:57 PM ^
Still not quite the same... and they normally don't play @ Colorado or @ Utah in mid/late Nov.
October 12th, 2023 at 10:01 AM ^
USC played in Salt Lake late November of 2020, in cold (temp was 35 at kickoff), and beat them pretty easily on five Utah turnovers.
And they've usually played Colorado in November for some reason. Every road game from 2011 to 2017 was in November, temps for the games were 41, 29, 41, and 59. USC won them all. Of course the best explanation for that is that Colorado was terrible...
October 12th, 2023 at 10:23 AM ^
Look back at the history of USC vs Colorado - most of those games were either Sept or Oct. They've only played 17 times since 1927, only 5 of those games happening in Nov (and only 3 were in Boulder, with one being the first weekend of the month).
https://usctrojans.com/sports/football/opponent-history/university-of-colorado/7
That 2020 Utah game you mention was the *only* time in 21 matchups that USC played @ Utah in November. Everything else was earlier in year, in LA, or in a bowl game.
https://usctrojans.com/sports/football/opponent-history/university-of-utah/18
October 12th, 2023 at 11:33 AM ^
Of course. Before 2011 Colorado was a non-conference game and non-conference games mostly happen early in the season, and especially so for SC who's already committed to one later non-conference game.
October 12th, 2023 at 12:56 PM ^
But they did not "usually" play in Colorado.
October 12th, 2023 at 4:09 PM ^
You've had some excellent points in this long debate, but your increasing focus on picky details is really detracting from your primary point. You'd persuade lot more people if you found a way to be more gracious.
October 13th, 2023 at 11:34 AM ^
There have been some asides going off into minutiae, but still within the greater context. With the exception of responding to one individual who seemed to have an ulterior motive, where has the discussion been ungracious?
October 12th, 2023 at 8:03 PM ^
I assumed we were talking about games in the PAC because there would be no reason for Colorado to even be part of the conversation otherwise. They'd played each other quite seldom before they were in the same conference.
And once they were in the same conference, the first four USC @ Colorado games were in November. Four of seven in total. November is less than half the schedule but more than half the games, "usually" isn't all that much of a stretch.
It certainly isn't evidence that they were ducking cold-weather conference games or that they struggled in them.
October 11th, 2023 at 6:57 PM ^
Pullman in November is no picnic. I’ve seen many an Apple Cup played in the snow. But how many times have USC and UCLA played in Pullman late in the season?
October 11th, 2023 at 7:05 PM ^
UCLA has played in Pullman in November 4 times this Century (2-2 in those games). USC has played there once (they're 1-0).
October 11th, 2023 at 7:09 PM ^
I bet most players think playing in 90 degree heat is harder than playing in 40 degree weather.
October 11th, 2023 at 9:03 PM ^
This is an absolute fact right here.
October 11th, 2023 at 9:11 PM ^
Easier to catch a ball in 90 degree weather than in 0 degree.
October 12th, 2023 at 8:52 AM ^
That’s one factor (of many), sure.
October 12th, 2023 at 9:15 AM ^
True, but it is far more impactful for offenses such as USC's and UCLA's which are more predicated on precision passing and executing difficult catches.
October 12th, 2023 at 10:55 AM ^
I'm pretty sure Michigan has never played a game in my life where the temperate was 0.
Below freezing? Absolutely. Zero? Not even close.
...and the coldest Michigan game I ever attended? 1995 Purdue game... where the temperature was actually ABOVE freezing (about 35 degrees).
October 12th, 2023 at 11:43 AM ^
Do you disagree with the actual statement?
I think most players would rather play in 90 degree weather than 0 degree.
That all said... we have has games where the apparent temperature (including wind chill and other factors) was close to 0, if not below.
October 12th, 2023 at 2:39 PM ^
I think most players would rather play in 90 degree weather than 0 degree... and I also think most players will potentially play in 90 degree weather, and almost no college football players will ever have a game where the temperature is zero.
Ann Arbor average about 15 days with highs of 90+ per year.
Ann Arbor averages about 4 days with a low of zero or below - and that low almost always occurs at a time of day when football isn't happening.
October 12th, 2023 at 4:03 PM ^
... yet the point of this discussion is what is most relevant to mid/late November.
October 11th, 2023 at 7:43 PM ^
Cold and shitty everywhere
October 12th, 2023 at 2:06 AM ^
This is my experience because I'm too lazy to look up numbers, but Oregon fall/winter is much milder than Ann Arbor fall/winter.
I grew up 15 mins from Ann Arbor and have lived in Portland for 8 years. The average temps may be similar, but its just more pleasant here weather-wise. Once the rain starts for real in a couple months though...
October 12th, 2023 at 2:31 AM ^
The reality check on weather is this. We have 2 bad weeks of weather which are almost always a guarantee North of a line from Penn State across the Michigan border and through Iowa. North of there its usually in the low 40s by mid/late Nov and you can get some freak cold snaps with snow in late Oct early Nov, but those are rare in general, even more so on Saturdays for a specific 3 hour period.
We play 4 weeks in November, most likely USC, UCLA, UW and ORegon will play no more than 2 road games in that Month and most likely 1 or both against one of the others.
It will be as fascinating to watch the Ca schools play in cold windswept Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota etc just as it will be fascinating to watch Wisconsin wilt in the Sept/Oct heat of LA
The biggest impact on play is going to be the travel itself. Its just hard to go 2500 miles away and play a football game the next day.
What I really can't wait for is the first Big Ten team having to play at night on the West coast and fly home after arriving in their Ol' college town at 6am and the sanctimonious quotes about the hardship on their student athletes.
October 12th, 2023 at 8:59 AM ^
just as it will be fascinating to watch Wisconsin wilt in the Sept/Oct heat of LA
The average September high temperature in LA is 81.
October 11th, 2023 at 6:04 PM ^
Weather doesn't factor in much.
Does weather help the Packers at Lambeau? Did weather affect Peyton Manning in Foxborough? Did weather affect Ohio at Michigan in 2021? Did weather....
Never mind...
October 11th, 2023 at 6:10 PM ^
FWIW, Green Bay has also lost 2 home playoff games just this decade ---- to San Francisco and Tampa Bay.
I'm not convinced the weather really matters that much.
October 11th, 2023 at 6:17 PM ^
It doesn't actually matter whether the weather matters or not. (OMG, it's weather inception :).
USC / UCLA appear to think that it does. It would be unfair of them to get to arrange their conference schedule in a way that they believe to be to their advantage. Nobody dragged them into the Big Ten.
If the B1G starts having different rules for the haves and the have nots, it won't survive. The conference is built upon Michigan, OSU, and PSU treating Northwestern, Indiana, and Rutgers as equals.
October 11th, 2023 at 6:51 PM ^
I don't think USC or UCLA will be bothered by it as much as OSU
October 11th, 2023 at 7:11 PM ^
As to "USC/UCLA appear to think that it does" ---- have we seen anything that says UCLA and USC are asking for minimal November road games?
Not to get on the OP's case, but there's no link.
I know USC doesn't play at ND in November, but that's ND's fault. ND allows it because they (and their boosters) want to spend Thanksgiving in sunny SoCal every 2 years. USC has leverage with ND, they won't with the B1G as a whole. Anyway, USC and UCLA have played plenty of November games outside of California and Arizona for decades now.
October 11th, 2023 at 7:29 PM ^
This wasn't some rumor I read about actual USC, UCLA or Big Ten policy... just a comment made by someone in another message board that makes sense (and fits in with USC's arrangements with ND).
Hypothetical at this point, but very possible.
October 11th, 2023 at 8:11 PM ^
Fair: I begged the question. (This should satisfy the people who were upset with my inexact explanation earlier this week of why "begs the question" does not mean "requires the question" :)
In general, home teams should be able to manage their scheduling. I'd actually be OK with it purely being up to the conference as long as we could trust them not to mess up rivalry week. (I do not).
If USC / UCLA do not wish to play road games in Columbus or State College in November, they should not have joined the Big Ten. If they do not care one way or the other, then so much the better. :)
October 11th, 2023 at 7:22 PM ^
It definitely affected Michigan because they beat their asses even worse on a warm, sunny day.
October 11th, 2023 at 6:12 PM ^
I mean, they have to basically play one road game in November, so good luck with that. USC sometimes plays Notre Dame late in the year so they at least have played Midwestern games in November. I’d imagine with them not securing the other PAC schools as protected games, they are going to play at least one game on the road in November, and as stated October can get pretty chilly, and with each schools history and notoriety they will be subject and circled to be a night game for most Big Ten schools if possible. Will be hard to get the AD to plead and Saul Goodman his/her way into getting either LA school zero Midwest November games or night games late in the year.