Will any O-coordinators ever figure out Don Brown's scheme?
Not that it would happen. But could it? I'm so impressed with the defenses Don Brown has put together at Michigan and BC. What is his secret sauce (besides the power stasch) and will someone eventually find the antidote? (fwiw I think PSU was an outlier)
I was thinking about this and am curious what other think. At some point will offensive coordinators in the B1G compile enough tape and start to figure out the chinks in the armor? That's what eventually happens with exotic schemes in football right? My understanding is that he is uncompromising in his scheme. Is it that exotic that it's hard to prepare for? Or is he just that good at game planning for opponents, coaching his players and making in-game calls that he can just consistently put up top 10 defenses? Cause that seems to be the case.
I fully expect another top 5 defense this year given the returning talent. But I'm curious how Brown is able to do it year after year when everyone knows what's coming.
Go Blue.
Many teams figured out our safties dont cover well and mich didnt really use a nickle corner. Our 250 lb linebackers also dont cover rbs well. Even though Don Brown thought McCray could cover Barkley . Sometimes the defense is over aggressive and gets burnt on cutbacks. Or tricky screens/throwbacks like msu and Purdue ran.
Yeah, I was going to say, Moorhead figured us out pretty well last year. RPOs to get the aggressive LBs sucked up and then to go the TE. Get McCray on a RB route. Post routes to slots. Rinse and repeat.
It's not an unbeatable defense, but it's really, really, really good. As as a defense can be without Bama level talent.
Don Brown said after last year's loss to PS, he wanted to put in another defensive package for that game but the defense was so young, he didn't want to overwhelm them. With only 1 returning starter, it's understandable. I don't foresee another game like that this year.
In the Big House I sit with some professors who have a number of players and student managers in their classes. If Brown thought he should have put a different package in the kids didn’t suspect it. The players and student mangers believed that the coaches believed Brown’s plan would shut PSU down. More than a few players apparently agreed in class that Brown was shocked at PSU’s success against them.
I watched the interview of what Don Brown said. So I take him at his word. Also, there are many defensive packages that DB develops and eventually installs as part of the game plan. He uses multiple packages during the game so it's not just one all encompassing scheme.
+1 Insightful
Seriously? Joe Moorhead took him to the woodshed
We easily forget how much the defense had to replace last year. Seemed like an experienced crew because they shut down so many teams, but it wasn't. It's amazing that Don Brown had them playing that well in the first place. Also, Brian thought PSU threw in lots of new stuff. A talented team playing at night at home and throwing in a lot of new stuff is hard to prepare for.
agreed. Plus how inept our qb (and therefore the offense) was last year. Sudden changes, lack of rest, and downright frustration contributed to whatever breakdowns we had on defense.
Sweet excuses, man.
Hey, you bust your ass stopping OSU giving your team a chance to win only for your qb to armpunt the ball back to them on the very next play. How amped would be to get your ass back out on the field and do it again??
Or how about shutting down South Carolina to build up a 19-6 lead only to have some half-wit call a hand off to a tight end lined up in the backfield who never took a hand off before?
The SC doesn't help the OPs argument imo....that was a.game I thought the defense played poorly in the second half...
That's the play I see in my bad dreams. If he holds on to the ball, I think he doesn't stop running until he reaches the Dexter city limits.
Don't forget the almost nearly the play of the year qb pressure, bat in the air, almost intercept in the end zone by Hudson (i think it was him) right before half time. Whole different ball game heading into halftime winning (14-10) instead of down. I may have the score wrong, but that play could've single handedly changed that game.
Seriously what? I didn't say it wasn't an ass kicking. I said it was an outlier. 42 points given up. The average points against for all other games was 17 points. Not even sure of your point here, but look up what "outlier" means, re-read the post and try again.
If Moorehead figured it out then why weren't other teams emulated the same success? Not even OSU did.
I think a lot of coaches know the flaws in our defense. It's just difficult to actually execute on those flaws
Five teams last season did.
Meh...
If you are saying 5 teams figured out Don Brown's defense last year because we lost 5 games last year then I disagree.
Did MSU really figure out our defense? Our defense was put in crap positions and only gave up 2 scores. Sure the rain helped some, but their offense only had 1 long drive.
Did USC (NTUSC) solve our D? They did crap all game until our offense decided to turn the ball over 5 times including 4 straight times if I remember right - giving them very short fields to work with for 2 or 3 of the turnovers.
Wisconsin's Offense scored 2 TDs and 1 FG, that isn't exactly lighting us up.
South Carolina attacked our safeties deep downfield and late in the game and seemed to have success
I seem to remember the same against Wisconsin. JKP maybe giving up a long 3rd down reception. And don't get me started on the inability of Metellus to cover a crossing route against OSU.
MSU scored 14 points and gained 191 yards with 2 TDs in just 6 first half drives. Only one of those was mildly a result of bad field position and it was still a 46 yard TD drive. So yeah, they did figure it fairly well.
Then they parked the bus in a rain storm in the second half and won the game.
You weren't watching the same game. MSU scored when the could. Congrats. But our defense kept us in the rain. The DL tossed guys all over the field.
Have to agree with TrueBlue on this one, especially the park-the-bus line.
When Dantonio has a lead, he is indeed quite like a soccer coach in how he sits on it. You come away thinking that you forced X punts in a row should’ve won, but that’s only because they shut it down to avoid turnovers and bleed the clock. Just like Tressel, actually.
Not until the 4th quarter.
Top 5? Sounds nice.
I'm expecting #1.
Brown’s aggressive D is predicated on a lot of blitzing, strong D line play and corners who can play 1 on 1.
The only game we played poorly on defense for an entire game was Penn St this year. Their read option and getting our LB’s 1 on 1 with a back really messed with us. Our safeties also did not do well in coverage and reacting which hurt us on tunnel screens. We have shut down OSU two years in a row (part due to JT Barrett being awful in the pass game).
Gil, Uche, or Ross will be better in coverage than McCray. Kinnel isn’t the most athletic safety but smart and a good tackler. Metellus has a quite a bit of improvement needed to fix our issues in the underneath and over the top passing defense
Yes, but not before he refines it to compensate.
I love that man. Such an awesome coach. I'm finally getting a chance to watch All Or Nothing, and he shines the most by far.
Well considering we lost 5 games last year, I’d say all of those OCs already have it figured out.
So to answer your question, yes.
Brilliant deduction!!! They lost 5 games, so the defense must suck. That's it - the key to the entire season!!!
Apparently, the offense had nothing to do with anything last year...
There's a difference between OCs figuring out the defense in order to score on it (which absolutely happened) and the defense totally sucking.
The question was whether OCs will ever figure out the defense...as if they currently have no idea what we're doing and they just can't get past us. Well that's obviously not the case.
And I never said anything about the offense. But go ahead and just make wild assumptions based on absolutely nothing. Goodness.
Truth is, everyone knows the main weakness of this defense...our safeties. They were utterly worthless last season which is why so many teams attacked that position. Don Brown is a fantastic D coordinator. He's not infallible though.
What convoluted illogical and spurious reasoning. Including the PSU blowout the average points against was 19 pts. That's a top 10 defense per that metric. How are you excluding the offense and it's problems from fault in the losses? No one said the defense was "totally sucking" far from it. yes the defense "was scored on" so was Alabama's. Honest I give up... It's hard to follow what you're saying.
Good grief.
I never excluded the offense! Maybe exercise some basic reading comprehension skills. I also never said our defense totally sucked. I was responding to the previous poster. Lol holy crap it really shouldn’t be this difficult.
Yeah, if those teams hadn’t figured our defense out surely our unstoppable offense would’ve brought home the W.
DB's defense is predicated on college players not being very good under pressure, especially QBs. Take some risks flinging people at the offense from anywhere and everywhere and most of the time you dorf the play. Every once in a while you eat a big play, but again with most college level players, that's a gamble you take all day long
This was evident in the Colorado game. Durkin’s D dealt a lot with keeping everything in front and we rarely gave up big plays. Colorado burned us for two long passes and I’ll admit at the time I was skeptical.
MSU went over half the game of time without a first down and the only one they got was on a broken play. Penn St torched us. Wisconsin put up below average numbers and our offense was anemic once Peters went out. OSU needed their backup to make throws Barrett never would have been able to make to take a lead. SC, well 5 turnovers puts the D in bad position so I give them a pass for the most part.
It's not about figuring it out, it's about finding personnel matchups that work in your favor. Ex. Mike McCray last year verses Saquon Barkley.
Thank you. Exploiting our safeties in coverage isn’t really exploiting the scheme, it’s exploiting a personnel weakness which can vary from year to year.
Don Moorhead came close last year. I think Miss State got a good one from Penn State
Don Brown's weakness is the over the top throw game.
"Figure out?"
Sure, they already have. People have figured out the spread option, too. It's not like there's a bunch of stuff out there on the field that coordinators look at and have no idea what they're seeing.
The stuff Brown puts out there is good, but it's not like nobody has ever done it. Blitzes, deception, aggression; they've been in the game for many decades. His defenses are simply well-designed, well-coached, and well-called.
Are there some vulnerabilities? Sure, as there are with all schemes. All defenses get nuked occasionally in today's college football. Nobody argues that Brent Venables is a flawed coordinator, but Syracuse lit Clemson up last season like a MAC school. Alabama has the best talent and the best coaching and still gets burned from time to time.
And that will happen to Brown on occasion, too. Because it's football. But as long as he doesn't think that things never change and fail to adapt, he'll be fine.
Not sure if serious. The backup QB for Ohio State completely torched Michigan.
I mean when you gameplan all week for Barrett and a qb relatively unknown comes in he's probably going to have success. just look at okorn against Purdue. He lit them up and completed his first 12 passes
Besides teams like PSU (last year) and FSU (two years ago) that pretty much ran through our defense, OSU made in-game adjustments the last two years, which we were unable to counter.
Browns defenses are not all that sophisticated, they rely on pressuring the QB, with the Dline we have had in his tenure that has been easy to do. But there really isn’t much to figure out, you protect the pocket and pick up the blitzes, then all u need to do is execute. Easier said than done? Sure. But not like there are exotic looks that need to be dissected.
I mean Moorehead piled up the yards and points on us last year.
I think last years record answers your questions.
edit : year's
This topic can legitimately take many tangents. My criticism of this defense is that they do not force the number of tournovers they (rightly) should. I lay this at the feet of the secondary strategies. The corners need to vary/disguise their coverages. I am fine with showing press all the time...I disagree with actually playing it. At the snap the corners should be dropping and reading eyes at least half the time. I know playing safety in this system is difficult but they simply have got to do a better job.
I like Michigan's corners a lot but given the current strategies I would throw at them early and often. There no reason not to throw at them because 2 of the 3 possibilities are direct positives: 1) your receiver catches the ball and 2) pass interference is called...and here an incomplete pass is the only negative. When the current defensive strategy does not include making an interception there is actually little risk involved with simply putting it up for grabs.
It is amazing to me how long some posters have been here yet display next to zero level knowledge of basic football X's and O's.
But to try and stay on topic to the OP:
Every type of defense has potential weaknesses.
Getting blown out of one game does not mean a defense has been "figured out."
Please define a "Don Brown Defense" - note we started 2017 in a 3-3-5 instead of the 4-2-5 we spent almost all of 2016 in. Point being, DB's and everyone else's defense is not stagnant and will continue to evolve.
I'm sorry, I can't wrap my head around the fact that a ton of people in this thread are stating "Losing a game = defense figured out." I bet you scream at the TV for Jim to stop "running the ball up the middle" and to "run the touchdown play more often."