Who Harbaugh took with him when went from Stanford to the 49ers
I was sad to see Herbert following Harbaugh and that's a big loss for our football program. However I have faith in Coach Moore. He's going to create his own program culture and he's going to find the next man up.
Looked back to see who Harbaugh took with him from Stanford to the SF 49ers in 2011. From what I can tell on a quick wikipedia search, the list included (please correct me if I missed someone):
Greg Roman (Stanford Associate Head coach and 2010 Broyles Award winner)
Vic Fangio (Stanford DC)
Tim Drevno (Stanford OL)
Peter Hansen ( Stanford Defensive Assistant coach)
Stanford didn't drop off a cliff with the loss of Harbaugh and those important pieces. Coach Shaw got them to 82-25 in his first 8 seasons with three Rose Bowl appearances and 1st place in their division 5 times. In their first three years after Harbaugh left, they had double digit win seasons.
The model is there to lose your head coach and important pieces of the coach team but still succeed. Under Coach Moore, I like our chances of this happening.
Go Blue.
January 29th, 2024 at 10:56 AM ^
This is a golden opportunity for Sherrone to make history with the first female S&C coach at a major P5 football program.
January 29th, 2024 at 11:19 AM ^
This has to be a joke. Michigan is going to promote Herbert's no. 2. Simple as that.
January 29th, 2024 at 12:15 PM ^
Yes, joke. Or at least, absurdist thought experiment.
January 29th, 2024 at 2:51 PM ^
They are hiring #2?!?
January 29th, 2024 at 10:59 AM ^
Stanford did not have to deal with any program like OSU when Shaw took over. Shaw also had a better resume when he took over than Moore does.
I am not saying that Moore will fail. I am saying that the Shaw analogy has flaws. And I am also saying that the first few days the Moore era are not good.
Warde Manuel's clear misstep with his NIL comments, losing Herbert, likely that other assistants leave too...
January 29th, 2024 at 11:04 AM ^
I don't know whether Manuel really had any misstep. What about what he said was different than we assumed it was? There was a full article in Sports Illustrated before this season about Michigan's NIL approach that said exactly the same thing he did, and their approach to it this season with player and fan outreach was absolutely outstanding. I am not sure what he said that has anybody in knots.
January 29th, 2024 at 11:15 AM ^
Manuel has been wrong on NIL all along.
He is the epitome of 'old Michigan' in that he wrongly assumes that Michigan football will be successful simply because it is Michigan football. He needs to adapt to an ever-changing landscape. But he just recycles nostrums straight out of 1990s era CFB.
He had to be dragged kicking and screaming into NIL. And now he is just sticking to the exact same NIL formula even though the NIL landscape is quickly evolving.
He is just another in a long line of anachronistic 'Michigan men' who have been mediocre and behind the curve while occupying the AD seat.
Michigan won so much over the last three years despite, and not because, of its approach to NIL. The self-imposed handicap did not doom Michigan because the rosters were assembled at the dawn of the NIL era. But standing pat and not evolving in NIL will become a huge handicap going forward.
January 29th, 2024 at 11:34 AM ^
This just seems to be a take that is literally hunting for doom. Jim Harbaugh initially said that Michigan football is not a transactional experience and it has not become that. Now that he is gone that is all wrong? We want to get players by making the highest offer now? I never thought we were that and have never wanted to be that.
January 29th, 2024 at 11:40 AM ^
We should totally do it for basketball, though.
January 29th, 2024 at 12:09 PM ^
It is as though you are Warde Manuel's very brain...
As many have pointed out, there are not just two options. Michigan does not have to copy what Texas A&M did. But it also does not have to stand still with 'no NIL money until after your arrive.'
It is great to continue to pursue guys that will fit the culture. But you really do need a few five stars too. Michigan does not get close to winning it all without JJ and Will Johnson.
The NIL landscape is changing. Going forward, players that are high 4 and 5 stars, and that ALSO can fit the culture, are very unlikely to come to Michigan if they can get upfront money elsewhere.
NIL is not the same as it was the year JJ committed to Michigan. Warde specifically stated that Michigan will stand pat and not adjust at all on NIL. He is, yet again, behind the curve. He will, yet again, require Michigan to experience bad results before he (or his replacement) will eventually have no alternative left but to adapt.
January 29th, 2024 at 11:49 AM ^
They had to deal with Oregon who was contending for national titles.
January 29th, 2024 at 12:18 PM ^
"Stanford did not have to deal with any program like OSU when Shaw took over."
USC was the west coast version of OSU. And surely Stanford is not the west coast version of Michigan when it comes to football. Their arch-rival is Cal. They lack practically everything that Michigan has to make them a traditional power.
Stanford was transformed into a strong team by Harbaugh, that was a tremendous coaching job. Shaw kept them at a high level for awhile. That was far from a given after the first season or two.
January 29th, 2024 at 11:04 AM ^
One of the biggest differences we have to deal with now that didn't exist back then was the transfer portal.
Stanford lost some coaches, but they didn't really have to deal with any attrition in terms of players leaving.
On the other hand the more coaches we lose, the harder it becomes to hold the roster together. Herbert was especially important in this regard. And given how many good players we have on the defensive line, I wouldn't want to chance losing Elston either at this point. We know for a fact other programs are circling like vultures.
January 29th, 2024 at 11:05 AM ^
Roman and Fangio had extensive NFL experience prior to joining Jim at Stanford, Drev and Hansen had none. FWIW
January 29th, 2024 at 11:09 AM ^
SHAW INHERITED ANDREW LUCK
January 29th, 2024 at 11:13 AM ^
The primary difference being that I didn't need Brian and Seth to hold me during Stanford's transition.
January 29th, 2024 at 11:15 AM ^
The other parallel is that Shaw was a 39 yo first-time head coach. Moore will be a 38 yo first-time head coach.
Of course, many differences have already been pointed out - no true equivalent to osu as an opp, no NIL and transfer portal, Andrew Luck vs. ???... Point is, though, that hope is not lost.
January 29th, 2024 at 11:19 AM ^
I mean, if your point is that losing guys doesnt HAVE to be a killer, then yes, that's true. But Moore hasn't made one hire yet, so I question why we think it'll just be fine and successful. It might be, but not sure where that confidence comes from. There are plenty of coaches who are great game day coaches, recruiters etc, but cannot seem to get the coordinator/assistant coaches right. e.g. James Frankfurter. Dude recruits so many players and they routinely suck.
I think there are still questions about Moore's coaching, but he's the coach, so lets move forward.
But in terms of hiring, we know nothing right now.
There's also the risk that if enough coaches leave, its possible players start to look around too. I hope not, but.. Moore needs to build his own culture, even if its similar to Jimmy's.. and there will be casualties. We just have to hope he has a plan and pays through the teeth to get the quality we need on the field and on the sideline!
January 29th, 2024 at 11:29 AM ^
You know what worries me? Warde's potential relationship with Moore.
I could see a potential Brandon / Hoke situation developing at some point.
January 29th, 2024 at 11:44 AM ^
Or Warde/Juwan?
You used an example, by the way, where the AD and coach were both fired. So, not sure that's cause for concern.
January 29th, 2024 at 12:32 PM ^
I think Warde will be a lot more difficult to get rid of than Brandon, and that wasn't easy.
January 29th, 2024 at 12:51 PM ^
Fair concern.
January 29th, 2024 at 11:54 AM ^
You forgot Jim Stapleton. Never forget Stapleton. (I'm only partly serious.) As long as he and certain members of a prior regime are around I won't be able to rest easily.
January 29th, 2024 at 11:54 AM ^
Need to fire Warde and Juwan
January 29th, 2024 at 11:42 AM ^
On the other hand ...
January 29th, 2024 at 11:47 AM ^
Ugh.
Can't wait until we find out how this went down. He wants to win a Lombardi? Warde didn't want to pony up? Fun fun fun times.
January 29th, 2024 at 12:03 PM ^
The post just shows that Herbert leaving is unhappy news for the team. Which I think we all fully agree upon; it’s whether there’s cause for rage and firings or not that’s the question.
January 29th, 2024 at 11:55 AM ^
One of those things is definitely not like the others. (Hint: I'd remove Nordin from that particular roster. He's not present-tense or even close.)
I see more sadness there than anger (and "I'm outta here!" reactions).
January 29th, 2024 at 12:27 PM ^
Nordin was here before Herbert, when Herbert was hired, and a couple seasons after. I'm guessing he's a solid source on how important Herbert is to the team.
January 29th, 2024 at 12:59 PM ^
Point taken, but I think the impact of Herbert's departure on current players is what's important here.
January 29th, 2024 at 1:15 PM ^
I think it's likely the case that this puts alot of players at risk from poaching.
I'm not as worried about the offensive lineman as hiring their coach as head coach should help there. But I worry about the defensive lineman in particular given the players we have there are in high demand.
If we can keep the team together we should be good enough this year to go 10-2, which should be enough to make the playoff given our schedule. If we lose some key guys, it becomes more of a transition year but that's just the nature of college football these days. Harbaugh was never going to stay forever and we were always going to have to deal with transition costs at some point.
January 29th, 2024 at 11:53 AM ^
Moore has a better infrastructure than Stanford (albeit more turbulent and divided) but a way tougher schedule year in and year out.
January 29th, 2024 at 12:01 PM ^
Too many seasons of BPONE seems to be leading some to despair and expect the worst.
January 29th, 2024 at 12:23 PM ^
Kudos for your voice of reason. I was bummed to learn Coach Herbert was leaving today. Going to stay thankful for his time and contribution here and wish him the best.
January 29th, 2024 at 2:20 PM ^
Something to keep in mind is when Shaw took over, and had his early success, the portal did not exist.