What about keeping coaching staff basically in place?
TLDR; if 2018 is supposed to be "The Year," does it make sense to keep the coaches in place for the sake of consistency and not disrupting the progress?
Over the course of the season, there's been a lot of talk about how Harbaugh needs to make coaching changes on offense. The comparison writeup of Harbs, Meyer, D'antonio, and Franklin showed S&P+ regression on offensive ranking. Various comments of "too many cooks in the kitchen," and Harbaugh should give Drevno, Pep, or both a "firm handshake", maybe go after Jedd Fisch...et cetera, et cetera.
In general I've been in agreement. But I wonder if keeping the staff in place might make sense for one more year to keep the progress going instead of introducing a new playbook and coaching style at this juncture. If Peters earned the starting QB job with his performance against Rutgers, did Drevno earn the right to stay with the gameplan vs. OSU?
I also remember discussion that some of the OL struggles earlier were about being able to execute timing on plays where several things are required to happen in sequence. This sounds like a big change in the playbook might be 2 steps back for us.
Is it too risky to make a big offensive change at this point? Do we shoot ourselves in the foot by bringing in a new OC or PGC?
Caveat: I understand Pep or others may get hired by other teams, but that's not what I'm talking about. That may happen, but if not, should Harbaugh keep his staff in place?
November 27th, 2017 at 2:45 PM ^
1997's team had road games at Penn State, Wisconsin, MSU, home games against good opponents Colorado, Notre Dame, Iowa, Ohio State. Elite teams on a mission win games against teams they are better than, no matter where it is played. We will beat Notre Dame next year and we will win the Big Ten. Next year remains the year.
November 27th, 2017 at 2:50 PM ^
stars aligned
November 27th, 2017 at 3:14 PM ^
Yes, and yet everyone still thought we were a year away in 97.
November 27th, 2017 at 8:28 PM ^
This is coming from someone who went to the PSU, Wisconsin, and OSU games this year.
There is literally nothing to suggest that next year will be better, other than the belief that Brandon Peters is a golden god. The current team isn't a bunch of world beaters. Even if they do improve, they are not good enough that a few injuries, untimely plays, or bullshit penalties couldn't knock them out of contention. Everyone else on Michigan's schedule is going to improve too. Shit, OSU got to the CFP in their "rebuilding year" (as proclaimed by Brian) in 2016. These days you can't lose more than 1 game if you want to win the division much less get to the CFP. @ND, @MSU, @OSU, Wisconsin coming off a 12+ win season, PSU coming off a 10+ win season. Not to mention a NW team this program has needed a lot of luck against in the past... Neg away but I predict 8-4 (ND, MSU, Wisconsin are lean to loss, OSU is probable loss, and NW, PSU are probable wins). You are setting expectations too high if you're predicting better than that. I do think 2019 has the potential to be "the year" if the offense makes big strides next year.
November 27th, 2017 at 10:12 PM ^
"This is coming from someone who went to the PSU, Wisconsin, and OSU games this year.
There is literally nothing to suggest that next yar will be better, other than the belief that Brandon Peters is a golden god."
as a "supposed" point of reference, then you immediately subtract your attempt at coming across as a could be authority. There's a hell of a lot to suggest the team will be better, far better next season. To begin with we may lose one or two on defense. Among those returning is, perhaps, the best DL in cfb and whoever surrounds him is part of the best line on that side of the ball. Peters finally was showing what was expected the game he got knocked out and you can rest assured he won't make the same mist'rakes like trying to stretch to the end zone. The backs are coming back. The OL, the receiving corp, yeah the one tha was probably the best inco'ming last season. Have you ever witnessed the growth of a team in one year? A team full of high school AAs. We are also returning one of the best lbers in the country and another who had some sensational games this season.
The team, as a whole, had 13 more games to come together and believe me they are tight. They are relentless and they won't repeat freshmen mistakes. I really find the statement that the youngest team in big time cfb is not likely to improve seriously questionable. This is a great group.
November 28th, 2017 at 3:41 AM ^
"Everyone else on Michigan's schedule is going to improve too."
LOL OK dude.
So tired of bitching about the schedule next year. There are always going to be some tough games on the road. Unless you think it's a good idea to try to get a set up where we play Wisconsin, PSU, State, and OSU all on the road one year and all at home the other.
November 27th, 2017 at 2:50 PM ^
Tell me which of those teams will have a better defense than we have? As numerous teams have shown in the CFP era, you can overcome a loss (maybe even 2 losses) and make it to the CFP.
Starting at ND sucks, but I'm not ready to give up the 2018 season just yet.
November 27th, 2017 at 2:56 PM ^
major issues, defeating over .500 teams away in the B1G
I see 2 - 2 or 1 - 3 away/ against ND, NW, MSU, OSU next year..
plus another stub of the toe somewhere producing the 8 - 4 or 9 - 3 expectation
November 27th, 2017 at 3:57 PM ^
November 27th, 2017 at 2:51 PM ^
the whole "road games" mentality. However, good football teams win road games against good opponents. The schedule to me just is what it is, can't keep saying "need to have tough opponents" at home to win a championship. The team just needs to get it done.
November 27th, 2017 at 2:57 PM ^
...and we are no longer in a climate of basically needing to be undefeated to win a championship. We could drop almost any single game on the schedule next year other than OSU and still make the playoffs. Hell, if it was close and we ended the year hot we might be afforded two.
November 27th, 2017 at 3:19 PM ^
Exactly, with such a tough schedule, there is no reason we can't Auburn our way into the playoffs next season.
November 27th, 2017 at 3:42 PM ^
I agree with your general point, but here's an (admitedly unlikely) scenario where I see U-M in CF playoff after loss in The Game:
OSU loses to say PSU & MSU (or has another Iowa like oopsy)
We win every other game (or even lose close to ND and many other teams lose)
Then we still go to B1G championship, win, and with 12 (or less likely 11) wins get into the playoff.
I agree with general point though, we do NOT need to be 13-0 to go to the playoff
November 27th, 2017 at 4:10 PM ^
Yeah, I agree, but like you said that is a specific scenario that is less likely than the scenario of us entering The Game at 11-0 or 10-1 (or even 9-2) and needing to win that game to win the conference and advance.
November 28th, 2017 at 3:45 AM ^
Good point. Running the table is obviously nice but not at all necessary to get into the playoff or win the conference.
This playoff is going to have some combination of teams that lost to Syracuse, lost to Pitt, have 2 losses, got stomped by Oklahoma and Iowa, have beaten one decent team, etc.
November 27th, 2017 at 2:37 PM ^
Dont we get to add a coach for the 2018 season?
November 27th, 2017 at 2:40 PM ^
November 27th, 2017 at 3:50 PM ^
Consistently changing coaches because they don't immediately produce year 1 is a recipe for disaster.
Yes, THANK YOU for saying this.
November 27th, 2017 at 2:41 PM ^
Rushing is up to 8th in S&P. Passing is still at 76th, but 3rd string QB and freshman WR/best WR hurt caveats apply. Offense overall is 72nd. I am not of the impression that the coaches are the reason that the offense has struggled, and I think the improvement and potential is evident. Next year I would bet rushing stays top 15 and passing moves solidly into top 40 to give us a top 35 S&P offense. I wouldn't be irate if Jim stayed put with the current offensive staff.
November 27th, 2017 at 2:41 PM ^
November 27th, 2017 at 2:49 PM ^
November 27th, 2017 at 2:51 PM ^
Stability is good but offensive playcalling was 100% a factor in the msu loss and wasn't great at Wisconsin either so if there is some slight shakeups I don't think it would be the end of the world. A RB coach who can help coach RB blocking and blitz pickup would be helpful. I'm still not convinced by Drevno, interior OL improved at run blocking during the year but couldn't handle simple slants or stunts at all and that was with a player who had been coached by Drevno for 3 years and he isn't a huge recruiting plus either so think you could upgrade that spot without disrupting offensive playcalling.
PSU took their jump on offense because they brought in Moorehead, elite coaches can still have immediate impact because their schemes are good enough. Look at Michigan's offense in year one, old players adjusted to a better scheme and vastly outperformed the previous year despite similar players and a vastly different coaching staff.
November 28th, 2017 at 3:59 AM ^
Our offense would basically be as good as PSU's if we had Barkley and McSorley.
November 27th, 2017 at 2:53 PM ^
November 27th, 2017 at 3:20 PM ^
November 27th, 2017 at 3:29 PM ^
November 28th, 2017 at 4:00 AM ^
No way man. Those MAC teams get good by firing OCs every year.
November 27th, 2017 at 3:34 PM ^
Do we think Schedule/opponents have ANYHING to do with that? Toledo may have a great offense, but I'm not sure it ranks where it is currently if you flip Michigan's and Toledo's schedules.
November 27th, 2017 at 2:54 PM ^
Personally, I would like to see Maizen hired as an offensive coordinator.
November 27th, 2017 at 3:53 PM ^
November 27th, 2017 at 2:54 PM ^
Yes to many things above . . .
- Yes to coaching stability. I especially want this right now for the OL. Don't do a thing with Drevno or Frey. Things have improved, and will continue to improve.
- Yes to keeping Pep Hamilton, for multiple reasons. The WR and the QB need this stability for route running and development. For those unhappy with Pep, you get to see how he is thought of by the fact that multiple teams want him. I think that Pep himself realizes that another year (with great improvement) will only help his resume.
- Yes to Harbaugh deciding. JH knows who he works well with, and who he doesn't. He knows who really needs a promotion. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a coaching change, and if it isn't what we expect.
- You only need to look to the defensive side of the ball . . . Brown and Mattison are awesome, and are helping to anchor the defense. I'm thrill that this is a final destination for both of them, and that they are having a ball. The defense will only get better. With the offense finally improving, you will see the defense be better able to close out games.
November 27th, 2017 at 3:34 PM ^
So you're telling me that changing coaches all the time is not a good thing? I mean, it's worked so well for us thus far? Major Sarcasm.
Rich Rod improves every year (granted it was a horrible start) and we fire him in year 3. Go from spread to manball... watch a square peg being forced into a round hole for several years. Hoke out. Now Harbaugh. People want to get rid of Harbaugh or at least most of the staff... Just crazy. Nice to see some rationality on here.
That said, Drevno and Pep's seats are warm. I'd be fine with them getting another chance for all of the reasons stated on this thread. Improvement is needed though.
November 27th, 2017 at 3:02 PM ^
November 27th, 2017 at 3:12 PM ^
lot of homers here want to keep the status quo..
1 - 5 record against our rivals appears to be A-ok with them
November 27th, 2017 at 3:42 PM ^
Now let me know how many of those ended on freak plays, blown call, or the inability to throw a forward pass to wide open receivers as a result of the play call?
We have been on the wrong side of fortune and frankly still had chances we didn’t capitalize on, but if you think changing the coordinator with a redshirt sophomore quarterback is the right idea than you belong in Lions and Bears management.
I’m not saying play calling has been perfect or even good in many games this season but with the youngest team in college football we have no idea how much that was a factor.
November 27th, 2017 at 3:57 PM ^
" if you think changing the coordinator with a redshirt sophomore quarterback is the right idea than you belong in Lions and Bears management."
I LOL'd at work. Trust me, none of us want anyone involved with the Lions or Bears management involved in running the Michigan AD. Pathetic.
November 27th, 2017 at 3:14 PM ^
November 27th, 2017 at 3:59 PM ^
Fresmen? Injuries? Freshmen receivers, with very, very few exceptions, suck.
We were lucky to get anything out of most of them. Except Black. Black is a freak. Too bad he got hurt.
November 27th, 2017 at 4:04 PM ^
November 27th, 2017 at 4:32 PM ^
I agree to an extent, however it is completely reasonable to qualify their performance against ours by also recognizing our top receiver was gone, and they have an OL with more experience than ours did. They also gave their QB more time to let those receivers get open.
The key to our offense in my humble opinion rests with the OL. in a couple more years, we will have 5th year seniors on that line. they will be leaders, and hopefully the kind of men that will move on to play on Sundays. They will also be teachers to the underclassmen, much like our lines used to be in the Bo/Lloyd days. At that time, we can have a QB of Speight's talent look like a Sunday All-Pro, and average backs will look like race horses. Without that kind of OL, we will need exceptional talent at skilled positions. Of course, me being a selfish fan, I want both - a talented and mature OL and all the exceptionally skilled players we can find.
November 27th, 2017 at 3:28 PM ^
I don't know what the answer is but whoever is responsible for calling play action passes when down 11 with 3 to 4 minutes to go or in earlier games when it was 3rd or 4th and forever, needs to address that.
If that is Jim, whatever. He needs to change that because it isn't fooling anyone.
As far as staff goes, that is up to him because going forward in year 4 there won't be any blame that should rest with coordinators. The buck stops with the man at the top. Keep whoever you want but start winning against teams with winning records. Only MIchigan and Missouri did not beat a team with a winning record this year. Yikes
November 27th, 2017 at 3:34 PM ^
November 27th, 2017 at 3:48 PM ^
He's an offensive coach so it makes sense he picks people whose philosophy matches his and he wants to work with. He lets the defensive side do their own thing so they can run a 3-3-5 and he doesn't care. Harbaugh can't bring in a spread n shred guy on offense and that is most of the currently up and coming offensive guys.
Could maybe go get a matt canada or if Stanford had some young OC we could poach but there aren't that many young guys running big set based systems for us to poach from so its tough to get new blood in. Not even Taggart, a disciple of Harbaugh is running it at Oregon.
November 27th, 2017 at 3:35 PM ^
I do think some changes are coming, but I can't predict which or where. Maybe it's just internal reporting structure, or simplifying of the entire offense? But either way, I do think something will be done.
But I'll stop short of advocating anything, because I don't have a seat in the room. I don't know how well they communicate; I don't know the exact org structure; I don't know who's teaching what. And neither does anyone else on this board.
What I do know is that Harbaugh isn't going to clean house and take down the Harbaughffense by bringing in some yahoo that runs a 'college offense'. He'll get this thing going, and it'll roll like Alabama does. Only Harbaugh's will be a more modern NFL offense with a heavy dose of manball on the side. But I do think there will be some small change/turnover in offensive coaches each year.
November 27th, 2017 at 3:43 PM ^
I'm fine with that, but Pass Blocking has got to get solved. So whatever it takes to do that should be done, otheriwse I'm fine with the staff staying stable(along with the addition of a WR coach as the 10th coach when that gets approved).
November 27th, 2017 at 3:53 PM ^
I think there was scuttlebutt earlier about Frey leaving. I don't know if that is still a thing or not.
November 27th, 2017 at 3:58 PM ^
I'm not sure it matters what we think.
They are not consulting with us either way.
November 27th, 2017 at 4:00 PM ^
2016 was the year.
I don't know who is saying 2018 is the year.
November 27th, 2017 at 4:10 PM ^
Next year will not be THE YEAR because we will still be too young and thin on OL and QB. 2019 is THE YEAR, or should be. If BP and teh OL turn in a great performance for the bowl game, I'll believe stability is the right call. If not, I'd like to see some changes made on O.
November 27th, 2017 at 4:23 PM ^
OC - Pep
OL - Frey
RB - Alfonso Smith (this year's "intern")
WR - Open to suggestions
I'd like to see Drevno move on to new opportunities. It also seems crazy to declare Pep a bust when he had to make do with three different quarterbacks and an extremely young receiving corp. I don't really have any problems with Jay but doubt he sticks around another year.