Way OT: The Joys of Homeownership
Mods please take this down if it’s too OT, although it might also be helpful to others that are looking to buy a house.
So I just took another kick in the nuts this morning and it got me thinking about others’ homeownership problems. Misery loves company after all. So please chime in with your own stories. Anyway, here’s my issue.
I bought this house (my first house) 4 years ago (May 2017). It is an older house, from the 1950s, so I knew there would be issues. But the location is great (location, location, location, 5 minutes from work, etc.) and it is an established neighborhood where housing prices never really go down. I had no idea that it would immediately turn into a money pit.
1. The original hardwood floors started buckling within the first 4 months. They actually raised about 4 inches in some areas, went down in the winter when I stopped using the AC, and then buckled again in the summer. Last spring they buckled again and haven’t gone down. I found out last fall that the subfloor is rotting and needs to be replaced. But I can’t get the subfloors replaced yet because…
2. They also found water under the house. Like most houses here, it is pier and beam which means that it is raised about 12-14 inches from the ground with an open crawl space. Water drains from the back yard and settles under the house. Hence the subfloor rotting. I need to have a drainage system set up around the house before I can replace the subfloors. Otherwise, they’d just rot again.
None of this was picked up in the home inspection. In fact, the inspector wrongly claimed in his report that there was a drainage system. So now I need to put in a drainage system, replace the subfloors, and install new flooring.
3. There have been on and off problems with the AC. I’ve spent about $2000 for repairs over the last three years. After another visit today they told me I need a new AC system rather than repairs because it’s almost 20 years old (from 2003). I was surprised at this because I clearly remember the inspector saying it was a newer system. So I checked the inspection report and, yep, he said it was only 4 years old (installed in 2013) when I bought the house. It’s actually 10 years older than he said it was.
I won’t even mention the periodic drips in the roof (supposedly a 5 year old roof when I purchased).
Other than these issues, I really love the house. Great neighborhood for running/walking the dog, big yard in the middle of the city, etc.
So what are your nightmare stories? Is it too early to start drinking?
When you get down, take a look at what you bought the house for 3 years ago vs. what it is probably worth now. Should cheer you up a bit.
An increase in value will cheer you up if you selling. Otherwise, your housing situation doesn't change but your property taxes go up.
On the bright side,
homes are going in Virginia for well above asking price. People want in on the insanely low interest rate. Sell it and make money then buy something that’s not a “fixer upper.”
OR
rent for a while until the housing bubble bursts and things go back to normal….if ever.
I feel pretty fortunate after reading this thread, just dealing with an A/C system that works perfectly fine but has a coolant leak somewhere. I had the coolant recharged last spring and made it through the season but I expect they'll tell me I have to replace it this year ... just when my fixshit fund is at its lowest.
Edit: Re old houses, I don't own it anymore but used to have a 1920s craftsman bungalow -- I would buy another one of those in a heartbeat over anything constructed in the 1950s-1980s.
1928 Ann Arbor bungalow owner here - i’ll second your recommendation. 33 years here and very little in the way of repairs. Dry basement( needs dehumidifier for the few hot weeks). Never had central air - overhangs, porches, and design keeps it fairly cool. Oak floors throughout 1st floor with original finish, 2nd floor (my construction) with Doug Fir floors ( always full of wife's shit). Original plaster on most walls, a few new drywall ceilings done by me. Just put in my 2nd furnace(1st one I did, 2nd got a pro) and 2nd water heater ( both by me). Kitchen and both baths done by me and look decent years later. Note: I am UM educated carpenter who now specializes in Kitchens and baths.
So now I need to put in a drainage system, replace the subfloors, and install new flooring.
And sue the crap out of the inspector.
Nothing to add here - we bought our home in 2012 (Was built in 2009) and knock on wood, the only thing to go so far was the water heater, which was about $1k to replace. Spare that it's been just fine.
Really just came on here to say, "Damn!" and "Cheers!"
Due to the need for speed to cut off any other offers, I bought a home on the Canadian side of Lake Huron sight unseen. Well, actually, we saw the outside of the house every summer, because my in-laws cottage was a few lots over and back. The owner was a very nice guy, but that impression was based on talking to him a handful of times over the years. We made sure we could get an inspection done and pull the plug on the deal if anything bad was found. The inspection report came back with no major issues except the owner had been running the furnace/AC with no air filter for years. The system was old, so I didn't expect it to last more than 3-5 years anyway.
When we moved in, it became apparent that the basement living area had a mold problem. There was a broken dehumidifier in the basement, so all the summer humidity built up in the space to make a nice home for mold. We tossed everything out of the basement and had a nice bleach wipe down on all surfaces. The house had it's quirks. When we decided to build an addition to create a larger kitchen and dining space and a few more bedrooms for family, we discovered that the carpet in the living area that always seemed like it had no padding underneath did indeed have no pad. It was also glued to the floor. It took a few days for two guys to get all the carpet cleared out.
And, for people that remember vintage brands, the washer that came with the house was a "Speed Queen" harvest gold beauty from the early 70s.
Our experience with our first home provided us with a series of rules that cannot be broken, under any circumstances, for any future purchases:
- No asbestos. Tile is the easiest to deal with, but boiler wrap or insulation is a nightmare. It's finally gone and it took 1/3 of the market value of the home in cash to deal with it all so that we could be safe in our own home.
- No foundation issues.
- There is no such thing as a truly functional waterproofing system
- Pay for the sewer scope during inspection.
- No flips. Ever.
- There is no such thing as a good deal on a house. You pay for what you get.
- Grounded outlets are important.
- Check the tub to make sure it's actually a tub, not a 2 cm thick piece of flimsy liner that will crack and flood whatever is beneath your bathroom when you shower for the first time.
- Check to make sure that any gas lines are hooked up properly and sealed. Not fun to be swarmed by the fire department 4 times in 3 years due to uncontrolled gas leaks.
- If you can avoid all galvanized plumbing...you should do so
Other tips:
- Buy a shop vac immediately after you close. Seriously, first Home Depot purchase. It can clean up water from a flood really quickly, which will help you to limit any damage.
- If you need to handle any environmental damage or abatement, GO WITH THE BIG CHAINS, NOT THE LOCAL GUY. It doesn't matter how many good reviews the local company has, they pop up and die out constantly. Tons of them are incredibly predatory. The major chains are more trustworthy, because they have way more eyes on them. You will still spend money and be annoyed, but the risk of you getting absolutely screwed is much lower.
- DIY landscaping can be a bigger project than you first think.
- A programmable thermostat is a legitimate investment in your home, because you will find out if something fails when you are out of town and you can adjust. Having a non-programmable one was almost EXTREMELY bad for us last winter.
- Replace every smoke alarm upon purchase.
- Clean your gutters.
- Frost free spigots are another good item to spend money on.
Additionally, plan for any appliance that comes with the place to fail. You will replace all of them during your period of ownership. It doesn't matter how new it is. It will fail. Enjoy your furnace replacement and SAVE for future repairs.
Your inspector might carry professional insurance for when you sue him for this.
PS - did you find the inspector yourself or did the real estate agents recommend him?
My first house was a 100 year old fixer. But price and location was right. Didnt bother with inspection, I already knew it was a dump. Spent virtually every weekend for a decade fixing every aspect of the house. Makes for a great rental property now.
I got screwed by inspectors on 2 out of 4 home purchases. I learned the hard way to get very specific on the inspection contract about what I wanted verified. Still missed one thing on the last home purchase. The gas fireplace didn’t work. Since I didn’t specify it as an item to check, it was on me. I hired the inspection company the company I work for uses when we buy homes of people relocating. That improved the quality but most inspectors are looking to maximize cash and minimize time spent. Everything is set up to make money off the transaction. Inspectors are pretty far down the list of scumbags in the process. I am still a fan of home ownership though and had a couple of rentals along the way.
In Soviet Russia, home inspects you!
We live on the corner of a fairly busy road. Our side fence is facing homes on that road. New neighbors were moving in across that road back in September. Their cleaning lady was backing out of their driveway when her throttle stuck and shot her straight back. She plowed through our fence and ended up fully submerged in our pool. The new neighbor had to jump in the pool and pull her out. I was at work, but my wife works remotely and my mom was there watching our, at the time, 3 month old. Luckily, no one was in the backyard when it happened.
The fence was destroyed of course, but we were planning on replacing it eventually anyway. The police dive team had to come out and get fully suited up as the suv was leaking gas and oil into the pool. It then started to downpour. They had to get the wrecker into our backyard somehow so they ripped out some bushes. The wrecker didn't make it very far as it sunk deep into the mud, but far enough that the boom was able to reach over the car. They were able to pull it out of the pool and get it out of the backyard. There was virtually no damage to the pool and only one deck plank popped out of place which was easily repaired so we were lucky. We were also lucky that the pool was there. If it had not been, that SUV was heading through our other fence and possibly into our other neighbor's house who had two small kids at home.
As for the driver, she was in complete shock. It became apparent that everyone in her family used this car as different tools and supplies poured out when getting pulled out of the pool. I hope they were able to get a new one.
We used the small insurance payment to get a new fence and that is my homeownership story.
Also I've killed about 50 lubbers over the past few weeks. They keep eating my palms.
Holy crap!
The guy who's in the pool while they lift that thing must really trust those tow lines.
Okay, I’ll bite; what’s a lubber?
Think it's either a landlubber which would mean he's a serial killer or a grasshopper.
Annoying shitbag grasshoppers that chow down on our plants once a year. Have to kill them when they're young or they become resistant to pesticides. Went around with the pruning shears and snatched them off our palms and hibiscus.
I've really only ever owned brand new homes so I don't have to deal with this kind of stuff. Previous house was 3 years old when purchased. Current house was 1 year old when purchased.
I'd rather spend my money on improving the property then fixing the house itself.
You've been very fortunate then! Lots of these issues aren't confined to older homes. IE, extensive mold. We install vapor barriers super tight now, and airflow through interstitial spaces is minimized. If moisture gets in there, it's mold city. Very common problem. Newer homes also frequently run into crappier construction practices.
True. I've also only bought from well respected custom home builders, but there's always repairs to do at some point in time.
I also built homes and apartments for a living for a couple years before going to college and learned quite a bit about proper construction vs time and money saving construction. I often point out as much or more than a home inspector.
May I suggest humbly that living on a sailboat is the logical conclusion?
Basically built to be indestructible - takes all of twenty minutes to figure out how to take apart and put together the interior systems (so excepting rigging and sails). Mine has a ten hp diesel so even that is small and easy to maintain.
Tongue in cheek but that’s how I live <shrug> it ain’t half bad.
Cheers.
FWIW the lakefront living / view is probably the best selling point, to me - how much do most folks pay to have Michigan / Huron lakefront? Winters have to be sussed out being the toughest selling point (obviously easier if you have the flexibility to head south).
Cheers.
Sorry to keep self-replying - bad form for sure - but wanted to proudly call out an improvement I made this spring - added 400w of solar panels and 400ah of LiFePO4 battery - enough to run my cabin needs (Xbox series s, 35 inch monitor, macbook, phone, instrumentation, occasional electric bike recharge utilization, occasional stove utilization) and remain independent of running the diesel or shore electrical to serve my daily needs.
And I play a lot of Xbox.
Hmm. Trying to decide if this entire post is a humble brag on my series s. ;)
Cheers y’all.
I live on Lake Huron and its awesome.
The water is cooler than most inland lakes, and the wind/waves can be tough to navigate. What we dont have are a bunch of people piled up on top of each other, and a bunch of boats parked in front of our house. The waves can get to be a bit much at times, but we can hop on a boat and ride to private (state owned) beaches all around us. Its well worth the investment, and the issues we have had with the former owners.
My first home was built in 1920 and was the cutest little brick place. My wife and I loved it until the first storm caused the basement to flood. I could never keep that basement dry. I was so happy to sell it a few months ago. I felt like there was 10 things about to fall apart on it.
Our new house seemed great until we started to notice all the ants coming in. I’m sure there will be other problems, but I’m loving it after a few months.
A borax and sugar slurry is your friend. Every spring, the ants do their thing; then I do mine by feeding them. It works well. Relatively safe for all things you care about,
edit: I assume you are lost somewhere in Oklahoma. You aren’t having issues with fire ants are you? I hated those things when I was living there. (Norman area)
Fire ants are horrible. I found out the hard way (visit to ER) that I am allergic to them.
This stuff worked great for me:
Terro liquid ant baits
https://www.homedepot.com/p/TERRO-Indoor-Liquid-Ant-Killer-Baits-1-Pack-T300/202532940
It's borax and sugar (like earlier poster suggests), but just already assembled for you into a little plastic disposable trap.
Put several of them down in areas the ants show up, and ants initially swarmed it. Within about 4 days, no more ants at all.
I suggest taping plastic down (like part of sandwich bag or some plastic wrap), then putting the trap on the plastic. If ants swarm it, they can cause the sticky sugar solution inside to spill out. Plastic under it eliminates need for clean up.
This is for little ants, not carpenter ants (which are a bigger problem and require a different bait).
"They also found water under the house..."
Hire an arsonist. Make sure you're current on your homeowners first
Personally I would not buy a new home unless I knew the builder. While many of today's products are better I'm not convinced the contractors and employees are better.
I'd rather renovate something with good structure than buy new.
I've owned a House built in 1978 (bought in '87) with 2x6 walls, cedar siding and wood windows. The only think that bothered me was the ceilings were all vaulted and I have no idea what the r-value was and had no easy way to improve it. Plumbing was copper and the siding held up great with staining every few years. What was bad was the quality of the finish work - floor coverings, trim, doors, tile, kitchen - and all of those were easy to replace over several years. One funny thing I found was that when we replace the interior doors we found that they had used drywall for shims. It was my first house I bought when I was single. We did two additions and stayed 30 years. It had not been butchered by the previous owner.
My advice is save up and do a project right - either by yourself of with a contractor. Doing a job again after a few years is no fun.
My latest house was built in 1960. We have gutted both bathrooms and kitchen and i did as much of the work as I could do myself. We were going to keep one bathroom for awhile until we found evidence of a leak. It was in a basement so no big issues caused except a complete redo. House is well built but not much insulation in the walls.
My cottage was built in the 1990's and the quality of it is not as good as my two older homes. They used 2" rigid foam sheathing on the 2x6 walls which was the rage at the time to save energy. I've has siding leaks that have caused some rot in the floors and walls. I've re-sided most of the house and added waterproof adhesive house wrap - blueskin - not that billowing crap you see on many new homes.
Owning a home is a pain in the ass - but having a desk job I really like doing things with my hands and the sense of accomplishment I get. Owning two homes - one in the hinterlands of northern Michigan where finding a contractor is impossible - is not for someone who does not like this stuff.
I’ve lived in 3 houses that I rented for a couple years, and I’ve owned 2 including my current home. I love my home and neighborhood, but I honestly was just as happy renting. My current home I’ve redone the usual stuff like windows, roof, kitchen remodel, basement finishing and now on to AC/ and furnace repair. It’s always something. Problem is, the cash flow effect can become a struggle especially for new owners to pay for that stuff. The realized financial gain from home owning isn’t realized until years later. I once rented a house where the landlord wanted to make side money mowing and edging the yard. He’d charge me $35 a week. It was fabulous. I had no chores and minimal maintenance headaches, and ZERO temptation to remodel the kitchen etc. But the wife wanted a house of our own, and here I am....waiting for the HVAC guy to show up.
I'm 46 and have now bought(4) and sold(3) several homes. Unfortunately, most folks look at home inspections as something they're not. This is crappy, I know, but, inspections are purely surface level items that one can learn themselves, for the most part, over time. I'd always recommend everyone get one(they're cheap), I still do, but, you have to do so understanding its limitations. The best advice I could give is to leverage anyone you know personally, who may have knowledge in what to look for, and ask/beg them to tag along when shopping for homes. Spotting questionable items right from get go allows you to either steer clear, or, adjust the offering price. As for your situation now, all of these problems are yours to address. You could try and go after someone if they didn't disclose the seasonal floor buckling, but, the cost, time, and effort won't justify it. Owning a home is expensive and the upkeep is constant. There's definitely something to be said for renting/leasing and comparing those lifetime costs to home ownership.
Even if imperfect, you gotta inspect first. I nearly had a disaster on the first place I considered buying when the inspection revealed mold and water issues. The owner had to spend months fixing it.
Dang man. As someone who just bought a house(Got the keys on April 1st), I'm hoping we don't run into any issues. But what I would say is I'd go after the inspection report. That's not just minor details, those are major ones that suggest the inspector didn't even look at anything. My guy was here for about 3 hours, and still missed a few things we noticed after moving in.
We had a groundhog INSIDE our walls. Too long to explain how it got in, but basically couldn’t go out the same way.
After about a week, I finally just cut a huge hole in the drywall and hoped he would come out. He eventually did about two days later.
Bought my first house right out of grad school in a great location but it was a total money pit and had flowers planted in a toilet seat out front by hippies that lived there before. I lived in the main part of the duplex, and my upstairs tenant covered the mortgage. Great right?
She used to get drunk and play Roger Miller's "king of the Road", over and over while I was trying to sleep downstairs. "Ain't go no cigarettes" will always make me laugh. One day I drywall patched a hole in her ceiling, and later she reported her cat missing and meowing coming from somewhere near the roof. Had to patch that hole twice...
Best roof story was popping off a layer of bad roofing shingles with a pitchfork on a cloudless beautiful summer A2 day. Then at almost the precise moment when most the shingles were off, a five-minute rainstorm came from out of nowhere and briefly soaked the inside of the upper floor. The house survived just fine but I thought I was going to have a heart attack.
A month later, on the first M football Saturday, someone knocked on my door at 8 am and offered me $15 to park on my lawn.(this was in the 80's) and it was the first of many. So there were some pleasant surprises too. Wouldn't trade the experience for anything.
Our place was built in 1883 and we have owned it for about 16 years. I want to retire in 3 years, so about 3 years ago I started working off the list of major repairs to have done. So far we have finished:
-- new septic system (unbelievably expensive); new furnaces; upgraded electric, enclosed a screened porch; improved drainage and walkways; installed solar that covers about 75% of power needs; installed a hot tub, pergola; rebuilt a deck; and added a ground-floor bathroom through an interior remodel.
Still to do:
-- new air conditioning (now 20+ years old), new roof (probably 30 years old), interior and exterior painting, re-do driveway (that the septic install ruined), whole house fan, replace the fence, and fix some retaining walls.
We love our house and want to live here for the rest of our lives. Every day I am grateful we are not in an historic district, which would probably add 50% or more to what are already very large bills. I'm also glad I will have most of the major systems done before retiring, but have certainly found with home ownership that there is always something,
Bought a house at auction, so you know you might have some issues. I didn't think I'd dump this much $$$ in the 1st 2 years: Andersen windows rotted out, all replaced, 9 foot sliding glass door also was not functioning nor salvagable, basement walls buckled in in the 3rd month and this year we noticed holes in the cedar siding(rotting)that was freshly painted when were bought the place. Some other smaller issues, but that is enough to make me run for some Irish whiskey.
Wow that sucks. One of the biggest issues I could have is with the septic tank. Lived here four years and no issues so far. It is an older system but there is only 2 of us so hopefully it keeps going. If there is an issue with the system I would have to hook up to city sewer and that is not cheap. Reading some of the comments reaffirms my belief that insurance is a huge scam. What is the point of paying every month if there is a multitude of things they won’t cover?
I've owned 5 houses in my 30 years of adulthood and am building a sixth right now. My list of disasters is two termite infestations, two leaky roofs and lots and lots of AC rehab/replacement. I've remodeled 3 kitchens, 5 bathrooms, converted 2 basements, tearing down walls, adding walk-out doors, etc. Also have had to do french drains a couple of times. Luckily, I have the means to hire all of this shit out.
Honestly, it's why I'm building now. I know how to inspect construction at this point and have lots of ME friends who will walk around the new house making punch lists for the low price of bourbon and conversation. Besides all of that my back is a disaster these days so I'm not doing anything to put it in jeopardy.
Older home, getting a home warranty for a couple years is always a good idea, IMO.
My advice is don't buy a house older than like 1990. It's just not worth it unless it's been totally gutted or you plan on totally gutting it. If it doesn't have modern electrical and plumbing, I'm out. I've seen too many of my friends and family members go through hell with old pipes, old electrical, things that had to be rigged to update with the times, etc etc..
My younger brother bought a house a few years after I did, when we were near 30. He asked for my advice. I said to forget about anything that has "history" or "character". Look for 20amp circuits to the kitchens and bathrooms. Get information about any flood history or insurance claims for flood damage in the area. See if the electrical is all in one panel, with circuit breakers, and not screw-fuses or some crap. See if the house is set up or capable to get 200A service. Find out if fiber internet or at least something comparable to Xfinity is available. That's the type of stuff that really matters to me. Crown moulding and hardwood floors don't provide much happiness when your YouTube video on how to keep your wife's hairdryer from blowing fuses keeps buffering because it's a windy day, and you can't flush your toilet bc the tree roots found their way back into your clay pipes.
I'd take my 1960's and 1970's houses over a 1990's+ house.
Why? Older lumber was better, especially something like Cedar siding. Plumbing is usually copper and cast iron/PVC - no different from today unless you are using PEX.
Electric - as long as the wire itself is grounded and in good condition changing the panel itself is not a massive issue.
Insulation and possibly windows are the big advantage of newer homes.
Sewer pipe can be an issue with old homes - especially with Orangeburg. I have clay tile and had to have some of it replaced - but given I was doing landscaping it was not a problem. I had the system scoped before buying so I knew what I was getting into.
So for me I'm more concerned with homes that were cheaply built - regardless of the age. But issues like old ungrounded wiring, non-copper or pex plumbing etc can be a problem.
There are great home inspectors who catch everything, even small stuff, and crappy ones who miss major things.
These days, you can't always line up a good one before you purchase a house. Sometimes, things move too quickly to be able to schedule the one you want and you make due with what you can get.
If you do have a good one, you can have the inspection even after you buy and then know what you need to work on before it breaks or becomes a major problem.
I found a great one through our real estate agent who vouched for the inspector being ultra picky, super thorough.
The inspectors I've dealt with have you sign basically a hold harmless agreement before they will inspect, in which case, suing isn't going to be easy.
Sue that inspector.
Never trust an inspector. Do your homework and inspect yourself on top of whatever guy you hired. There are some good things to look for --see comment above from a knowing dude!
Also, talk to the neighbors! They can be an excellent source of information.
I hear talk of home warranties but I bet you a dollar to a donut they wouldn't cover half of the OP's problems--and might not even offer a reasonable policy for an old house.
I agree. NEVER BUY AN OLD HOUSE unless you own a contracting company that is.