Way OT: The Joys of Homeownership
Mods please take this down if it’s too OT, although it might also be helpful to others that are looking to buy a house.
So I just took another kick in the nuts this morning and it got me thinking about others’ homeownership problems. Misery loves company after all. So please chime in with your own stories. Anyway, here’s my issue.
I bought this house (my first house) 4 years ago (May 2017). It is an older house, from the 1950s, so I knew there would be issues. But the location is great (location, location, location, 5 minutes from work, etc.) and it is an established neighborhood where housing prices never really go down. I had no idea that it would immediately turn into a money pit.
1. The original hardwood floors started buckling within the first 4 months. They actually raised about 4 inches in some areas, went down in the winter when I stopped using the AC, and then buckled again in the summer. Last spring they buckled again and haven’t gone down. I found out last fall that the subfloor is rotting and needs to be replaced. But I can’t get the subfloors replaced yet because…
2. They also found water under the house. Like most houses here, it is pier and beam which means that it is raised about 12-14 inches from the ground with an open crawl space. Water drains from the back yard and settles under the house. Hence the subfloor rotting. I need to have a drainage system set up around the house before I can replace the subfloors. Otherwise, they’d just rot again.
None of this was picked up in the home inspection. In fact, the inspector wrongly claimed in his report that there was a drainage system. So now I need to put in a drainage system, replace the subfloors, and install new flooring.
3. There have been on and off problems with the AC. I’ve spent about $2000 for repairs over the last three years. After another visit today they told me I need a new AC system rather than repairs because it’s almost 20 years old (from 2003). I was surprised at this because I clearly remember the inspector saying it was a newer system. So I checked the inspection report and, yep, he said it was only 4 years old (installed in 2013) when I bought the house. It’s actually 10 years older than he said it was.
I won’t even mention the periodic drips in the roof (supposedly a 5 year old roof when I purchased).
Other than these issues, I really love the house. Great neighborhood for running/walking the dog, big yard in the middle of the city, etc.
So what are your nightmare stories? Is it too early to start drinking?
Thanks!
The crawl space is open on 3 sides, with about a 12-14 inch clearance. It is closed in the front with brick so he's going to add vents (I think every 6 ft). It should have good venting/air circulation.
By vapor barrier, do you mean something like 6-mil visqueen? I've seen that recommended in some cases, so I'll have to ask him about it.
Unfortunately, the pest/termite control company will not allow insulation because it prevents them from seeing any damage.
From my reading of his little tale of woe, this goes beyond missing a drainage system to clearly stating one exists. Two different apples. Missing a drainage system - the inspector could likely hide behind a clause stating they cannot be liable for anything they cannot see, but if the report states there IS a drainage system, then you, as the home buyer, should be able to rely on that statement.
Oh, that sounds like a nightmare! The good news is it sounds like you still love the place.
I’ve always gone new construction, but it has its perils as well. My second condo proved to be shoddy in various ways, especially sound-proofing, and the couple upstairs from me were extremely heavy walkers with two young beagles. I was glad to finally be done with it when I sold.
Now nearing the end of a 3.5 year project building a house here in Switzerland. It is way over budget in both cost and time, with plenty of costly surprises (windows supplier going bankrupt two weeks after receiving our deposit, government insisting we have to build a nuclear shelter, needed to put in a water drainage basin). In the end it’s going to take every last penny of savings, not a situation I expected to be in during my late 40s! Very much a “Grand Designs” scenario.
I am sure when it’s all done and we can start saving again it will be worth it. And ideally we avoid the kind of maintenance issues you are dealing with for a decade or more.
Good luck finishing the project. Sound's like it'll all be worth it when it's finished.
And now I know where to go in the event of a nuclear war.
government insisting we have to build a nuclear shelter
Just....sliding that one in there quietly, I see
Logging in to ask what…on earth…nuclear shelter? Need deets
It is a requirement in Switzerland. They have enough bunkers to cover their entire population should the need arise. Basically since the start of the Cold War they have required a bunker on every new construction build.
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/prepared-for-anything_bunkers-for-all/995134
Scratching my head at why anyone would attack them, since they’ve been neutral in any wars and generally stay out of world politics, correct?
People who would use nuclear weapons aren't rational actors, so you should never expect them to make rational decisions.
To everyone who is shocked about this, yep. And they’re likely to repeal the rule in the next year or two. And it cost us an extra $40,000 to put in this reinforced bunker that we absolutely cannot use for storage lest we fail inspection.
I am certain it’s all a racket for the companies that sell the filtration equipment.
And don’t get me started on the bizarre bidet regulations here!
One of the reasons the Swiss have been able to remain both neutral *and* unconquered over the last ~600 years or so is that they were highly militarized (defensively) and prepared to withstand/defend against nearly any threat. The mountainous terrain helped immensely as well. It became too costly to try and invade (despite the desires of persons such as Napoleon, Hitler, etc.) without much to gain strategically.
Much of this attitude is still part of the Swiss mindset. Very curious people.
Bc states don't act in a vacuum. The decision of one state to utilize nuclear weapons on another will still have global implications. This is especially true in Europe where the states are very small and close together-- they're still at significant risk of radioactive fallout and other sorts of indirect consequences even if the initial attack wasn't directed at them specifically. That, and other historical/geographic reasons that crg already mentioned above.
That said, I too still found it pretty odd as a requirement lol.
Man, that suuuuucks!!!
I bought a house back in August. Moved in and was there for all of one week before I woke up to about 3 inches of water covering my entire basement floor. Luckily it isn't a finished basement, so there wasn't too much long lasting damage. Part of my house is under a crawl space and water was coming in under the crawl space, through a crack in the basement wall and then all over my floor. Of course the inspector didn't catch any of this.
The culprit for it all was that the large concrete patio I had in my backyard was angled slightly towards the house so it basically acted like a funnel for water towards my house when it rained. Had to remove the patio and install a new one. I took it one step further and installed drains and drainage tile all the way around my house that led down away from my house, which is no small task. I also had to fix the leaks in my crawl space and install a dehumidifier. Nothing I couldn't accomplish with a lot of work and $$$.
And don't get me started on the time I ended up on my roof at 2 AM with a garbage can and a sledgehammer...
And don't get me started on the time I ended up on my roof at 2 AM with a garbage can and a sledgehammer...
I would like to hear this one...
Inquiring minds want to know!
Jim Harbaugh was involved. Enough said.
home inspectors, in my experience, are useless.... and what's worse, no matter how wrong they are, you have no recourse.... read the contract.
Current 'project' is a house built in 1880... with a couple additions since. The 1st floor has been made into commercial office space (my business and my better half's business are located there) second and third floor are our living space. going into the deal knowing it was a very old building and there would be plenty of issues.... we're 3/4 of the way thru renovations and we're pretty pleased. nothing goes as planned, everything takes at least 25% longer than you think it should and something unexpected is around every corner.... but we anticipated this going in, the price was good, very very good. My dad was a builder, so I spent quite a few summer vacations working construction and I know how to do a lot of the work myself (blessing and a curse) which helps.
This is also our 4th house (6th property) so we've been thru it a few times.
OP.... Make sure you do your homework before hiring a contractor. There are good ones, but a lot of shitbags too. Google is a good thing, people like to air their complaints online (not just in Mgoblog) also talk to a couple former clients, minimum.... Good Luck!
Luckily a guy I work with has actually had more problems that I have. So he was able to recommend really good contractors.
In his case, the gas company actually bored a hole through his sewer system when they were installing new gas lines and then refused to accept responsibility when his house started sinking, walls cracked, etc. Even after hiring an attorney, he was only about to recover about 1/2 of the repair costs.
...I know how to do a lot of the work myself (blessing and a curse)...
I have told my wife the same thing many times!!!
We built a house in 2015. We couldn't figure why we had mice in the attic but nowhere else in the house. Two years I set trap after trap pulling dead mice out of the attic consistently. Then we found a gaping hole on the side of the dormer on the roof. Funny that builder decided it was fine to leave it like that. Funny the home inspector missed it. Once that hole was closed, we haven't had a mouse since. Mice really can climb vertically up a brick wall.
Mice can get into amazingly small holes - I believe their bodies are made of the same stuff that powers the Wonder Twins. We had them in the attic here as well - finally made some progress by replacing the ground seals on the garage doors, of all things.
At my child hood home we couldn’t figure out how the mice kept getting in until one day I saw them slip through under the garage door. Turns out that they had chewed through the rubber strip.
The garage was the first place I looked. That is the only part of the house that is connected directly to the attic. One day I saw tracks in the snow that ended right at the corner of my garage door. Never found a mouse in the garage. To this day I don't know where that thing went. It must have been one of the Wonder Twins. We sealed up everything there but it made no difference. That's when shortly after, we found the hole on the roof.
The triple-threat of a house that had been empty more than a year, a home inspector who (generously) just wasn't that good and my being sick when we toured the house (long before COVID) - the last in a day-long tour of the area... it's been an adventure.
Too many issues and too many details. We only started to get ahead of the list after a year or so here with the installation of a sump pump system and refinishing part of the basement.
It's not always economically realistic to expect to avoid looking at any homes over 20-30 years old, but if you end up buying one, don't take your agent's word for it - do the work and find a good home inspector in that area. I am a lot more knowledgeable about house issues than I was two years ago, and today's me thinks that me was quite irresponsible about the home search. Tomorrow's me is looking for a good electrician to start the next big phase.
We did go after the inspector, by the way. Didn't get much.
Being in the Plumbing and HVAC industry I have learned that home inspectors are very hit or miss. Not to be confused with state inspectors who actually go by a code book.
Bought my first house 11 months ago from a "friend" of the family.
Here's all the shit I had to fix/need to fix:
1. Bathroom needed remodeled. The original floor tiles kept coming up and we found out there was water/mold under the tiles. Also, there was vermiculite all through the pipes in the shower. Owner said bathroom was in great condition.
2. We had to replace all outlets and do other electrical work. We were told these were replaced recently by the owners. Another lie.
3. Roof on the back porch needed replaced because of leaks. Owner tried fixing this himself and said it was good to go. It was not.
4. Carpet needed replaced in the basement. This was our choice to replace.
5. Chimney had a crack and needs work. Owner never disclosed this issue to us.
6. Need to fix gutters. Owner said these were in great shape. They werent.
7. Just found AC is only running at about 65%. So will need to replace that.
8. Owner said the furnace was only 8 years old. Turns out it is 13 years old.
8. Will need new siding soon.
We were not able to get a home inspection until a couple of months after purchase due to Covid. We trusted the "friends" we bought the house off of. We did get a good price, but I now see why.
was your insoector bonded/licensed? if so i would go after him or her....clearly incompetent. if not licensed id put em to the coals.
had an insepctor years ago tell the couple buying my house that there were issues with roof. i made he and the buyer come over and we went up on the roof...flawless. pissed me off because he and i played ball together years ago. he went to osu on scholie...cant trust osu runningbacks i guess.
Maurice Clarett is a home inspector now?
Sadly Clarett was after my HS days. Im a bit older. Lou never saw the field at osu--grade issues i believe. It was disappointing because he was the first prospect from our HS to go to a major P5 school in recent memory at the time
Your home warranty should cover the AC, at least.
Do you know what a dry well is? I've put several in. You could put one in yourself for a few hundred bucks and a Saturday afternoon. That may be enough to solve that problem.
Living in a typical 60s ranch (1100 sq feet) since 2016 with my wife. We have enough room for our medium sized dog and our newborn but we do want another kid and will need more house when that happens.
1. Updated the basement over the 2020 quarantine
2. Painted two bedrooms
3. Rebuilt 2/3 of a six foot privacy fence
Had a contractor install a dishwasher and I have family heating and cooling out on a service call today to discuss repairing our AC unit which is supposedly from 1986 and still barely functioning. This pales in comparison to the OP but there ya go.
I've been extremely fortunate on home purchases. Worst experience was while my wife was in med school, first house for us, no money and a kid. Tropical storm caused skylights to leak and pour water through the walls, floor. Fortunately insurance covered it for us. Made a profit from every sale since. I follow 2 rules always, no more skylights and not old homes(new ones built by reputable builders only).
The former owner of my house was a general contractor who moved on to be the township building inspector. We walked through the home, and generally liked that it was move in ready, and fairly modernized. They did some upgrades and it was one of the only houses we thought we wouldnt have to put a bunch of money into right away.
Come to find out its very clear why this guy was a former contractor
1. He cut support beams out of the basement to remodel an upstairs bathroom. We only figured this out after the bathroom floor started to loudly crack, and we saw the missing beams after removing a wall. Picture a subtle seesaw of a support.
2. Because of this stupid move, the tie in the bathroom is breaking. I love stepping out of the shower to some nice sharp grout.
3. He remodeled the kitchen and moved appliances around. The stove vent, vents into a cupboard. I hate him.
4. He installed a sliding doors on our deck, but left a 1 inch gap between the bottom of the door and the deck. Our basement had Voles (field Mice) living in the ceiling/dying between the walls.
5. They installed new doors through the house, but instead of buying pre-hung they milled them themselves. In the summer (we live on a lake) none of the doors shut, or when they do they stick.
Do not skimp on inspections - we used my father in law, who is a great industrial inspector....but we should have hired a pro. If we ever buy again, I will probably go through the trouble to hire 2 inspectors for differing opinions.
Thankfully we gutted the basement and found some of their past mistakes. I should finish my basement remodel this weekend, and it generally makes me happy. Its clean, modern, and our style.
Encapsulate and install a dehumidifier in the crawl space to protect your new floors.
I still haven't bought my first home. The way conversations are going with my wife, it seems like we are more likely to buy a condo in a city than a house in the burbs. As someone with absolutely zero home improvement skills, I'm hoping that a condo will come with less upkeep requirements. Anybody have some experience there?
the only issue with a condo is you are at the mercy of the condo association. they wield more power than god. if its in a building that you are unlikely to have outside walls or structural issues wont be as risky....nothing worse than people who dont know anything managing a property.
I've only lived in condos. Even a prior condo with insane people in the Condo association was preferable to owning a home. (TBF, they are volunteering their time).
It is not always straight fwd to find out as a buyer, but figure out if any big assessments coming up (e.g., roof or some sort of foundation issue).
I actually spearheaded getting our condo association board removed and had a court appointed property management company take it over. It was a bunch of old power hungry bored ignorant retirees that didnt know anything--was incredibly frustrating. Their decisions made my condo unsafe to live in for a period and wife and I had to move out--and they still refused to do anything. I couldnt get anyone to do the work because of the associations control of everything beyond my drywall. It took a great deal of will power on my part not to put a boot in their asses.
Oh no. If there's anything wrong with the property, let's say bad foundations with buildings "X" and whatever and maybe yours is OK, they made just tack on a "special assessment" to *everyone* and you're paying for stuff that doesn't even affect you.
It sucks when those problems mount up, but you can turn every negative into a positive (Anthony Robbins). You can make improvements now that will help you down the road. I had a tenant call me up on Memorial day about 4 years ago late at night & left a voicemail saying real groggily that someone just... drove... a car... through the front of the house. Fortunately no one was sleeping on the couch... Anyway after an extensive emergency board-up, I used the insurance money & some of my own to upgrade to a nice bow window & new cultured stone. They caught the guy that did it & I got my deductible back.
Damn. Was it a drug dealer that drove through your house? Are you Roger Murtaugh?
Thanks to everyone for sharing your stories and advice! Just having a place to vent and hear others' stories has been cathartic. All the MGoPoints to everyone that shared.
Keep em coming!
"None of this was picked up in the home inspection."
A nickel for every time I've heard this and I'd be on a beach in Mexico ... permanently.
Blue@LSU, best wishes. I hope your luck changes for the better.
Are most home inspectors actually good for anything?! Seems they're mostly* about as useful as tits on a boar.
*take it easy home inspector guy who actually does a good job and helps the homeowners.
I’ve had good and bad experiences. One guy was all over a termite issue on a house we were trying to buy. He actually put his finger through the wall by accident while showing me an example. A different inspector on a different house, however, told me he promised his wife that he wouldn’t go up on any roofs. Since then, I’ve been looking for NFL work that pays me but doesn’t expect me to do my job.
That sounds frustrating. Sorry to hear you're having such a raw deal. I'm 42 years old, but because I decided to do a career change at age 28 and go back to school full time, I am only in my 8th year of teaching and about $20k lower on the pay scale that I would otherwise be if I did this with my first degree and had an extra 10 years of teaching experience. I just got married in the fall, so I'm a little behind where most of my peers my own age are in terms of financially stability and home ownership. We don't have kids and don't plan to so that frees us up a bit. But, I am just now looking into my first home ownership, and really only by necessity. I'd prefer to keep renting because my wife is now also going back to school for a career change herself, but there isn't much on the market we can afford other than condos and they go really fast.
The housing market everywhere is a bit nutso, but in Southern Maine is insane. I currently rent an apartment, which is basically a 2-bedroom condo with it's own driveway, one-car garage, fenced in backyard, etc. I've been there 5 years and they are converting them into condos and selling them. They are not renewing any leases and ours is up in September. We also have 2 dogs, which our place is great for, but it will be a problem if we don't buy. There nothing to rent at all that is not complete shit, never mind a place that will allow 2 dogs. So, we're kind of being forced into buying before we're really ready. They are giving current renters first dibs on buying their units, which we will likely take advantage of, but they are expecting us to act within the a few weeks before they open it up to the public where they will likely get multiple offers on every unit in a matter of days. If we don't buy now we might get priced out of the market or get our place bought up from under us by someone else when our lease expires. It's a bit stressful so I hear ya. Good luck with your situation!
I was a bit behind as well and was 42 when I bought this (my first) house. Just couldn't seem to save enough money until then. On the bright side, it sounds like you like the place and, having lived there for 5 years, you should be knowledgeable about any problems going in.
Good luck!
I am sorry to hear about your troubles with the house and hopefully you can start chipping away at the list. My house nightmare is a current on going situation as well.
My wife and I purchased a house last year.. and older one as well. Was looking forward to fixing it up.. 5 months later.. Hurricane Laura hit and dropped a tornado on the house. So here I am.. months later still waiting for a new slab to be poured.. and not to mention the price of lumber now.. so the house is on hold currently. Which is really shitty. So in my opinion.. never to early to have a drink. Cheers. And good luck as well.
I bought a 70 year old house in the summer. Come winter, when my 2 year old said "Daddy, mou my hou.", I discovered the previous owner was fond of feeding peanuts and seeds to birds (and mice). I spent the first few years finding every hole in the house and battling non-paying tenants.
Then there was the week the kitchen appliances all went.
After 14 years of no water (and having just finished the basement), water seeped up through the floor, requiring me to have the basement floor jackhammered and the below grade clay waste pipes replaced.
Oh yeah, nothing is square. Or modern. Even modest "repairs" (replace a door/cabinet/flooring/trim, change a sink/faucet, etc.) take 4 hours instead of 40 minutes.
Home, sweet, money pit. And I love it.
"Oh yeah, nothing is square."
I have worked on houses built as long ago as the 1880's, and built within the last 10 years.
NONE of them have square corners.