Two interesting nuggets I picked up in Madison this weekend

Submitted by Maizen on

Sat in front of a parent of a player who said that our center has no idea (I think he was exaggerating a bit) what line protections to call against stems and stunts and that this was also a problem last year with Mason Cole. He said Michigan does too much big on big blocking and not enough combo and slide protections. I'm not an OL so I have no idea what this means. Probably not breaking news, but it was a confirmation of sorts that this might be a systemic problem.

The second tidbit I picked up was actually from a Wisconsin fan at dinner after the game at The Old Fashioned (great burgers if you ever make it to Madison). We got to talking about the game and the subject of some of those brutal calls (and no calls) came up. He said don't expect it to get better for Michigan. I asked why. He claimed he went to college with someone "high up" in the B1G office who deals with officials and that he's made several off handed comments to him about "sticking it" to Harbaugh and Michigan. The guy was laughing while he was telling me this like it was an open secret or something. I was going to press for more info but my friends were more interested in getting his takes on what bars to go afterwards. Like always take it fwiw.

EDIT: Can't be certain but after some digging I think this may be the guy he was referring to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Carollo

Perkis-Size Me

November 20th, 2017 at 12:19 PM ^

I don't know enough about football schemes and X's and O's to know if the right calls are being made at the line, but I sincerely doubt this guy's second point is true. 

While Harbaugh hasn't made many friends since returning to Michigan, I can't imagine the media backlash that would occur if there was ever hard evidence that came out that either the NCAA or the B1G were systematically working to screw Harbaugh and Michigan over just out of some petty distaste for the guy. Despite a lot of people hating Harbaugh, that would be blatant corruption and abuse of power, where the perpetrators getting fired is probably the least of their concerns (legal action, death threats, etc.). An act like that far outweighs any of Harbaugh's shenanigans. 

Imagine the potential legal ramifications. Would Michigan have a legal right to sue the Big Ten or the NCAA for willfully contributing to sabotaging their teams and their student athletes? I imagine they'd have a case against them for directly and knowingly acting against the best interests of their students. And....you know....supporting student athletes is what both organizations are supposed to stand for. 

Even if Delaney wanted to do this, I just can't imagine that the pros outweigh the cons here. Heads would ROLLLLLL if something like that ever got out. 

mGrowOld

November 20th, 2017 at 12:32 PM ^

But I do know that if it was true and it was proven all that would happen is about two days of outrage in AA and laughter everywhere else.  Remember the OSU game last year?  One of the single most poorly called and biased games in my 58 year old memory and after careful review the B1G came back with "nope - looked A-OK to us".

I think the reason we are getting it stuck to us, and make no mistake, we ARE getting it stuck to us, is because Harbaugh had the audacity to say the emperor was naked last November after the OSU game and NOBODY liked that going public.  Our role is stay quiet and dont make a fuss and when he did, there was pure Hell to pay.

Ramblin

November 20th, 2017 at 6:29 PM ^

At some point, should Harbaugh just say "screw it" and go full rogue on the BIG and its bullshit?  

We got screwed last year before Harbaugh said anything so did the Big 10 retaliate or just keep up with its plan?  Someone also suggested a post of your's stating that this went back to the 70's. 

What do you think started it all?  I hate to say it because it is pretty tin-foil hat, but man...  I just can't help but think there is something to all of this...

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.  I mean, why in the hell did that crew officiate the game last year?   

You Only Live Twice

November 20th, 2017 at 1:29 PM ^

For anything to get out though.  Difficult at best.  It's a self-policing system.  The only accountability is strictly internal.  I'm sure they review tapes of their screwups (and bias during the OSU game) and not even receive wrist slaps.  MAYBE, well hmmm we will send you someplace else until the chatter dies down.  If that, which I doubt. 

Remember, Harbaugh was publicly critical of the system and got fined.  The amount of the fine is irrelevant - he was effectively silenced while Purdue's coach gets to call a TO and throw tantrums on national TV.   If you still don't think there is blatant corruption and abuse of power... let me tell you it exists everywhere.  it exists in small and petty ways when there isn't a lot of money involved.  It intensifies where there is a lot of money involved.

Delaney does not talk to the media.  Delaney's boys never have to answer questions.  "Hard evidence" is few and far between - the best we have is an article from 17 years ago, and the evidence that fans acquire, which is instantly discounted by every other fanbase.  Worse, members of our own fanbase turn on each other instead of rallying behind our school.

 

 

Wolvmarine

November 20th, 2017 at 12:20 PM ^

Whatever the reason for the awful pass protection on the OLine, at the end of the day it clearly falls in Tim Drevno. He bears the most responsibility for this. He had a previous track record, but after 3 years it doesn’t really mean as much. It’s time for Drevno to go. Maybe it’s too much to be OC and an OLine Coach. I don’t really know.

If the players aren’t executing, it falls completely on their coaches.

ST3

November 20th, 2017 at 1:10 PM ^

Last year, we gave up the third fewest sacks per game in the big 10. This year, we are giving up the fourth most. What has changed? Drevno? Maybe having multiple 5th year senior, all-big 10 type (1st team, 2nd team, honorable mention) linemen is important.

It is understandable to try to identify the root cause of a problem so that we can institute a corrective action. In my experience, the most difficult problems to solve are the ones that don't result from a single issue.

Is Drevno horrible and must be fired? Last year would suggest the answer is no.

Is it the RBs failure to pick-up blitzes? A review of game film would suggest the answer is sometimes. But sometimes its the line's inability to identify and deal with a stunt.

Does the opposition sometimes blitz X+1 guys against X blockers? Hell yes. Do our inexperienced QBs fail to identify those instances? Does our passing game not have hot reads and audibles?

I mean, it's a bunch of stuff going wrong. A lot of it can be attributed back to youth and inexperience. When multiple factors are in play, I'm going to rely on Harbaugh's track record (built programs at San Diego, Stanford, and San Francisco, took a 5-7 Hoke team and improved the win total by 5 in one year and was 5 points away from a perfect season the next) and give him and his staff the benefit of the doubt. I expect to see a much better offense next year, more in-line with Harbaugh's past demonstrated results.

Michigan4Life

November 20th, 2017 at 9:09 PM ^

Speight is the best at manuvering around the pocket to avoid sacks and make a strike after resetting his feet. This year, less Speight and more JOK and Peters(though Peters has been a lot better than JOK in pocket presence).

Another is De'Veon Smith is underrated in pass pro that he consistently picked up free rusher which allows Speight to have time to survey the field.

Both of them hid the OL issue and made them look better than they really are. When it comes to quality DL, this is where they failed. Demarcus Walker is a great example of him dominating the Michigan OL.

BeatOSU52

November 20th, 2017 at 12:20 PM ^

Are we ever going to get an o-line coach that knows wtf they’re doing ? I️ say take a risk and try and get Pete Stuursma from the d3 level. He has a proven track record of developing offensive lines

bgoblue02

November 20th, 2017 at 12:22 PM ^

to notice that you upvoted your own OP.  I feel as though that is more thread-worthy and credible of a topic then the other random fans throughts and drunken exagerating of your friend 

RedGreene

November 20th, 2017 at 12:32 PM ^

Chicken McNuggets are shit but still better than your highest. Did you really think these “nuggets” were worth posting? I didn’t think so. Just another I’m an attention whore post by Maizen. Pathetic.

SeattleWolverine

November 20th, 2017 at 12:39 PM ^

Sat next to my dog on the couch during the game. My dog didn't actually say anything beyond barking, since he's a dog and all, but if he could I am sure that he would say we need to stop throwing fades to McDoom. Also, dogs hate cats and they especially hate the wildcat and the pepcat in particular. Also, no more play action on 3rd and long, he thinks that's dumb. Like how when i pretend to throw the tennis ball but don't, well, he can figure that out and he's a dog so it's probably not going to fool Wisconsin's LBers either. I'm not an offensive coordinator so I have no idea if my dog's analysis is correct. Probably not breaking news, but it was a confirmation of sorts that our offensive might have a systemic problem. Per my dog (he's a boxer so he's probably right). 

Ty Butterfield

November 20th, 2017 at 12:47 PM ^

I would totally believe the story about the Big Ten and the officials. If you don’t you haven’t been paying attention. I think MGrowOld made a pretty comprehensive list at some point of the Big Ten screwing Michigan over all the way back to the 1970s.

VAWolverine

November 20th, 2017 at 12:54 PM ^

The illegal block called against Michigan on the successful fake punt that was called back in Bo's final Rose Bowl was established as a "pay back" call by one official with an ax to grind.

Given the world we live in today, I can buy into this to a degree.

gremlin3

November 20th, 2017 at 3:16 PM ^

These are issues that don't have solutions until 2018 and beyond.  Moreover, whether what you say is true or not doesn't explain what is happening.

1) We're getting beat in pass pro.  We don't need anyone to help us understand this.

2) We're getting screwed by the refs.  Said every fanbase in America every year.  If it's really a biased situation, let the AD handle it.  There is no other solution.

charblue.

November 20th, 2017 at 3:26 PM ^

the first except when you look at how Michigan games are actually officiated.

Michigan has traditionally not committed a lot of penalties. But Michigan has drawn some of the lowest ranked crews in the league this year. That has resulted in some strangely marginal differences in both the quantity and nature of penalties they have drawn. Against Indiana, for example, Michigan set a record for penalties called against them with a rookie crew doing the game and Tom Allen screaming along the sideline about Mchigan's illegal play on every down.

Harbaugh was pretty much an ass in his first year as coach to officials on the sideline and field. But when you compete in a business where the fianancial stakes are just as competitive and remunerative at the coaching level as they are on the pro level, even the suggestion of impropriety in officiating is a point of concern.

That is why Harbaugh got fined last year for his public comments after the Ohio State game, even if if was correct in his assertions. College and pro football must always protect the integrity of the officials and the reputation of their officials. It matters not whether they got everything right from that standpoint. You can't have outsiders questioning the legitimacy of the game because of kept officials.

Look, Michigan fans are smart, observant and know the game. They are horrible whiners after losses and persistent cry babies, too. But they know when their team is getting hosed. And the officiating odor wafting from their games this year is apparently drifting into the camps of other team fan bases.

Let's be clear, there were truth and consequences resulting from the Ohio State game officiating last season. And they have bled over into this year. And if the league doesn't want to acknowledge it, the evidence is there to document it.

BlockedAccount

November 20th, 2017 at 8:09 PM ^

maizen, I generally agree with most of your points. folks on here just can't deal with reality sometimes. good info. thanks for sharing.